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Messages - emski

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121
General Discussion / Re: Most of 100% delegates don't provide Asset feeds - why?
« on: February 05, 2015, 08:12:13 am »
In my modification of xeroc's feed script each delegate is free to set weight to each exchange. Exchanges can even be ignored. It also accounts for relative volume between exchanges.
You could have unique configuration if you want to.
Current scripts were created in a hurry. There could be a lot of improvement over them. However they are tested and they seem to be working so far.

I think more important for security is that all delegates provide feeds regardless of the method. And then each delegate can customize and change or upgrade his script.
If there are 60 delegates publishing feeds (instead of 100) then smaller set of malicious delegates is needed to manipulate the median price.

122
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 11:28:26 pm »
We could create multiple market issued assets like ( Crude Oil Mar 15 (CLH15.NYM) ) and publish feeds.
But the client should be modified so that:
1 All feeds are invalid 1 day before target date.
2 All positions are closed 1 day before target date.

This is not something a delegate can do. Bitshares needs to be updated .

123
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 09:42:36 pm »
That chart is created by fxcm... somehow. Can you find information about what it actually represents ?

124
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 08:55:56 pm »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 04, 2015, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: emski on February 04, 2015, 07:45:53 pm
Quote from: Ander on February 04, 2015, 07:38:42 pm
We should pick a particular type of oil, and a particular contract length into the future, and then have all the delegates for oil based their feed on that.

For example, "Use X particular type of oil, use the price of a futures contract that is between 1 and 3 months away from expiration".  If everyone agrees on what they are pricing then it will work.

What will happen when that "future" time comes ? Shall we stop the trading ? What happens with the feed(s) after that future point in time?

EDIT: We could include all the assets like Crude Oil Mar 15 (CLH15.NYM) , Crude Oil Jul 15 and so on. However this needs modification(s) in the software.

I agree that we should choose a particular oil type like  Crude Oil (WTI) but then you just use the spot price not a futures contract.

How do you define such price ? Each future batch is traded at different prices.

125
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 07:45:53 pm »
Quote from: Ander on February 04, 2015, 07:38:42 pm
We should pick a particular type of oil, and a particular contract length into the future, and then have all the delegates for oil based their feed on that.

For example, "Use X particular type of oil, use the price of a futures contract that is between 1 and 3 months away from expiration".  If everyone agrees on what they are pricing then it will work.

What will happen when that "future" time comes ? Shall we stop the trading ? What happens with the feed(s) after that future point in time?

EDIT: We could include all the assets like Crude Oil Mar 15 (CLH15.NYM) , Crude Oil Jul 15 and so on. However this needs modification(s) in the software.

126
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 07:27:29 pm »
Quote from: pgbit on February 04, 2015, 07:22:15 pm
Quote from: emski on February 04, 2015, 05:50:09 pm
Quote from: pgbit on February 04, 2015, 05:44:13 pm
Presumably, without a clear definition of the index to be used, the price would fall somewhere between the current lower WSI and slightly higher Brent crude values.

Q. If the feed is not set currently, does this mean that it is not possible to obtain BitOil at present?

It is not possible to obtain bitOil until 51 delegates provide feeds.
Ok, thanks.
http://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/info?asset=OIL

The 2 delegates currently providing a feed - and any others incoming - should gain a lot of support.

And what exactly are these delegates providing as a feed ?  What does it represent ? Where it is coming from ?

127
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 05:50:09 pm »
Quote from: pgbit on February 04, 2015, 05:44:13 pm
Presumably, without a clear definition of the index to be used, the price would fall somewhere between the current lower WSI and slightly higher Brent crude values.

Q. If the feed is not set currently, does this mean that it is not possible to obtain BitOil at present?

It is not possible to obtain bitOil until 51 delegates provide feeds.

128
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 04:46:15 pm »
Quote from: liondani on February 04, 2015, 04:32:25 pm
Quote from: emski on February 04, 2015, 03:33:10 pm
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 04, 2015, 03:16:59 pm
Quote from: LRENZ on February 04, 2015, 03:06:27 pm
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 04, 2015, 02:23:55 pm
I presume these aren't useful, I don't know what you guys require but that looks live

http://www.livecharts.co.uk/MarketCharts/crude.php

That looks exactly same source as the tradingview links posted above which apparently aren't good enough.

Ahh I want to buy bitOIL too :(

Oops, yeah it even says 'charts by trading view'. Oh well

Perhaps I was too quick to dismiss them. This is actually a realtime spot price. I wonder how is it calculated...

UPDATE: wow it looks like USOIL is falling quickly

so let's get the market active before we reach $100/OIL again !!!   :)

Well that asset USOIL is a "Contract for Difference" on http://www.fxcm.com/ that has underlying asset WTI ( http://www.fxcm.com/uk/markets/cfds/symbol-guide/ ). I'm not sure how they created this feed and what it represents exactly. I doubt this resource is a good idea for a blockchain feed.
I think we should first define what bitOil should represent.

129
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 03:33:10 pm »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 04, 2015, 03:16:59 pm
Quote from: LRENZ on February 04, 2015, 03:06:27 pm
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 04, 2015, 02:23:55 pm
I presume these aren't useful, I don't know what you guys require but that looks live

http://www.livecharts.co.uk/MarketCharts/crude.php

That looks exactly same source as the tradingview links posted above which apparently aren't good enough.

Ahh I want to buy bitOIL too :(

Oops, yeah it even says 'charts by trading view'. Oh well

Perhaps I was too quick to dismiss them. This is actually a realtime spot price. I wonder how is it calculated...

UPDATE: wow it looks like USOIL is falling quickly

130
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 04, 2015, 12:54:45 pm »
Quote from: teenagecheese on February 03, 2015, 11:16:42 pm
Quote from: pgbit on February 03, 2015, 11:11:54 pm
https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=USOIL
https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=UKOIL

Nice find. Yea that looks good to me, as long as it's specified what the source is it works, right?

These are daily feeds. We need spot price. Spot price is defined as a future expiring at specific date (specific hub, specific OIL type). We need to update quickly the spot price due to its fluctuations. If you can suggest how could we devise the spot price without modifying the client - go on.

131
General Discussion / Re: Does publishing feeds too frequently harm the network?（喂价太快会伤害网络吗？）
« on: February 04, 2015, 09:34:43 am »
Quote from: davidpbrown on February 04, 2015, 09:14:41 am
On a related note, is there a risk having non-101 delegates publishing feeds? I just wonder that it would be a trivial attack to setup a rush of bad feeds..
non-101 delegate feeds are recorded but ignored for median calculations.

132
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 03, 2015, 10:59:39 pm »
Quote from: julian1 on February 03, 2015, 10:54:20 pm
Also, would we want the future's price, or the spot price?
In current system we need the spot price. However I'm not sure how can we define it.

133
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 03, 2015, 10:52:35 pm »
Quote from: teenagecheese on February 03, 2015, 10:39:40 pm
Quote from: pgbit on February 03, 2015, 10:36:02 pm
The feed type is significant:

for example - can be a wide difference between:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Texas_Intermediate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Crude

Thanks for the info. If that is the case, that is fine. Maybe they will need to take an average and provide that. Whatever will work is up to them to decide, I just want them to do it.

Types of OIL are significantly different and their price might not correlate.

What you are suggesting is something like a peg to multiple sources. For example if we define the price of EUC as (1/3 of EUR + 1/3 of USD + 1/3 of CNY) and all delegates agree to supply such feed => you will have a portfolio of assets. Which doesn't solve the issue with OIL feeds as they are defined as futures for a specific date.

134
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 03, 2015, 10:47:19 pm »
Quote from: pgbit on February 03, 2015, 10:23:23 pm
https://www.quandl.com/c/markets/crude-oil

Platinum and palladium prices too:
(spreadsheet cell)
=importHTML("http://www.apmex.com/","table",1)

These prices are updated daily. That is not frequent enough.
The prices that are used are futures for a specific date (15th march, 15th june .. etc) and for specific hub and for specific type of OIL ( Crude Oil Mar 15 (CLH15.NYM) ),
If we want to use the same prices we need changes into the bitshares client.
For example Crude Oil Mar 15 (CLH15.NYM) should expire after 15th march. And we should have at least 1 additional OIL asset per month.

This is not a job just for a delegate feed.

135
General Discussion / Re: Please Provide bitOIL Feeds!
« on: February 03, 2015, 10:21:32 pm »
@teenagecheese can you be more specific about the type of bitOIL you want to buy?
To what price exactly you want it to be pegged ?

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