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Messages - alphaBar

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271
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Criteria for selecting delegates
« on: August 27, 2014, 06:32:52 am »
So far, the following delegates have revealed their identity:

*offered identity verification to I3


If you are willing to reveal your identity, please do so here and list your delegate. PM me if you'd like to modify/remove this info.

272
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: delegate.liondani... let me introduce myself ;)
« on: August 27, 2014, 06:13:24 am »
liondani - thank you for revealing your true identity. This is the most important criteria for me personally in selecting delegates.

273
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: delegate.liondani... let me introduce myself ;)
« on: August 27, 2014, 06:12:07 am »
Quote from: Troglodactyl on August 27, 2014, 05:52:27 am
Quote from: alphaBar on August 27, 2014, 05:45:08 am
I see multiple delegates still running:

liondani
delegate.liondani
liondani-linux
liondan-delegate-1
liondani-delegate-2
liondani-delegate-3
liondani-delegate-4
liondani-delegate-5
[...]

Two of these are top delegates. Did you change your mind about running only 1?
If he's only advertising one, people should stop voting for the others so he doesn't have to hurt the network by shutting them down to get them voted out.

What's the point of having a large number of delegates on standby? Each person should invest their resources in maintaining a single strong delegate. If that delegate goes down for an extended period it will be voted out. It should be a rare event, and does NOT require 10+ other delegates on "standby". The whole "standby" delegate thing is no different than having multiple top delegates per person - it is promotes centralization.

274
Stakeholder Proposals / Criteria for selecting delegates
« on: August 27, 2014, 06:03:58 am »
Some criteria I use for selecting delegates (in order of importance):

1) Has the delegate revealed their realworld identity?

Exposing your identity is the single biggest deterrent to doing anything malicious.

2) What is their history/reputation in the community and forums?

Important, ideally in conjunction with #1.

3) Are they technically competent?

The client is not yet resilient enough to be managed by non-technical delegates. Delegates should be scripting their price feed updates and missed block notification, and should be able to react swiftly to attacks on the network.

4) Are they running more than 1 delegate?

I refuse to vote more than 1 delegate per person. Furthermore, if a person has more than a couple of delegates in the top 101 I will do my best to vote them ALL out. It is harmful and should be discouraged.

5) What is their payrate and usage of funds?

Obvious, but not terribly important.

Based on these criteria I think the quality of delegates needs to improve.

275
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: delegate.liondani... let me introduce myself ;)
« on: August 27, 2014, 05:45:08 am »
I see multiple delegates still running:

liondani
delegate.liondani
liondani-linux
liondan-delegate-1
liondani-delegate-2
liondani-delegate-3
liondani-delegate-4
liondani-delegate-5
[...]

Two of these are top delegates. Did you change your mind about running only 1?


276
General Discussion / Transaction not displaying in "My Account" page, though balance is correct
« on: August 22, 2014, 06:03:34 pm »
I withdrew some BTSX from an exchange to my account. When I look at my account page the balance at the top of the page is correct, but on the bottom of the page where "recent transactions" are displayed the final balance is wrong and a single transaction is missing. I've made other withdrawals from the same exchange and they show up in the list. Any reason why a transaction would be absent from the list?

277
General Discussion / Re: 10,000 BTSX UP FOR GRABS: On what date do we pass Litecoin?
« on: August 22, 2014, 06:41:02 am »
September 19 @ 19:19 GMT

278
General Discussion / Re: OS X client crashes on startup
« on: August 21, 2014, 03:52:22 pm »
Quote from: modprobe on August 21, 2014, 01:43:36 pm
This crash appears to be caused by the Adobe plugin located at
/Libraries/Internet Plug-Ins/AdobeAAMDetect.plugin
Try moving that plugin to a different location so it is not found and starting BitShares again. Let me know if that fixes your issue.

You'll probably want to put the plugin back when you're done, but I am guessing that BitShares will not work while it is present. We are looking into a way to avoid loading it altogether.

That worked. Also solidifies my hate for Adobe. Thanks.

279
General Discussion / Re: OS X client crashes on startup
« on: August 21, 2014, 03:57:23 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on August 20, 2014, 10:27:31 pm
Interesting problem... looks like it has to do with Webkit plugins.

Any way to troubleshoot? I'm guessing I'm not the only one...

280
General Discussion / Re: OS X client crashes on startup
« on: August 20, 2014, 10:18:20 pm »
Ok, I removed everything from ~/Library/Application Support/ and now I get this:

Quote
Process:         BitSharesX [1238]
Path:            /Applications/BitSharesX.app/Contents/MacOS/BitSharesX
Identifier:      org.bitshares.btsx
Version:         .. (..)
Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [157]
Responsible:     BitSharesX [1238]
User ID:         502

Date/Time:       2014-08-20 15:16:30.342 -0700
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.9.4 (13E28)
Report Version:  11
Anonymous UUID: 

Sleep/Wake UUID:

Crashed Thread:  0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:  EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000

Application Specific Information:
abort() called
*** error for object 0x7fff7d001330: pointer being freed was not allocated
 

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1e866 __pthread_kill + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc7035c pthread_kill + 92
2   libsystem_c.dylib                0x00007fff8bbadb1a abort + 125
3   libsystem_malloc.dylib           0x00007fff954b107f free + 411
4   libstdc++.6.dylib                0x0000000113026bce std::basic_stringbuf<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >::overflow(int) + 302
5   libstdc++.6.dylib                0x000000011302a8ce std::basic_streambuf<char, std::char_traits<char> >::xsputn(char const*, long) + 62
6   libstdc++.6.dylib                0x00007fff95d63b44 std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >& std::__ostream_insert<char, std::char_traits<char> >(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*, long) + 430
7   com.AdobeAAMDetectLib.AdobeAAMDetect   0x000000012be2d239 NP_Initialize + 409
8   QtWebKit                         0x000000010f5406b5 WebCore::PluginPackage::load() + 245
9   QtWebKit                         0x000000010f53f71a WebCore::PluginPackage::fetchInfo() + 42
10  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f490157 WebCore::PluginPackage::createPackage(WTF::String const&, long const&) + 55
11  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f48c915 WebCore::PluginDatabase::refresh() + 677
12  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f48c40c WebCore::PluginDatabase::installedPlugins(bool) + 236
13  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f0d1e04 PlatformStrategiesQt::getPluginInfo(WebCore::Page const*, WTF::Vector<WebCore::PluginInfo, 0ul, WTF::CrashOnOverflow>&) + 1348
14  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f3f3976 WebCore::PluginData::PluginData(WebCore::Page const*) + 134
15  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f3d9c4e WebCore::Page::pluginData() const + 46
16  QtWebKit                         0x000000010feda4a1 WebCore::DOMImplementation::createDocument(WTF::String const&, WebCore::Frame*, WebCore::KURL const&, bool) + 305
17  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f33e503 WebCore::DocumentWriter::createDocument(WebCore::KURL const&) + 147
18  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f33dfaa WebCore::DocumentWriter::begin(WebCore::KURL const&, bool, WebCore::Document*) + 106
19  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f5ea2cd WebCore::SVGImage::dataChanged(bool) + 669
20  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f423c08 WebCore::Image::setData(WTF::PassRefPtr<WebCore::SharedBuffer>, bool) + 104
21  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f325d5e WebCore::CachedImage::finishLoading(WebCore::ResourceBuffer*) + 158
22  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f368935 WebCore::SubresourceLoader::didFinishLoading(double) + 133
23  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f514331 WebCore::QNetworkReplyHandler::finish() + 257
24  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f512c4b WebCore::QNetworkReplyHandlerCallQueue::flush() + 203
25  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f515f1a WebCore::QNetworkReplyWrapper::qt_static_metacall(QObject*, QMetaObject::Call, int, void**) + 58
26  QtCore                           0x0000000112993c6f QMetaObject::activate(QObject*, int, int, void**) + 1871
27  QtNetwork                        0x0000000111f7ff41 QNetworkReplyHttpImplPrivate::finished() + 1153
28  QtNetwork                        0x0000000112000b2d QNetworkReplyHttpImpl::qt_static_metacall(QObject*, QMetaObject::Call, int, void**) + 1901
29  QtCore                           0x000000011298cd7b QObject::event(QEvent*) + 747
30  QtWidgets                        0x000000010ea702dc QApplicationPrivate::notify_helper(QObject*, QEvent*) + 300
31  QtWidgets                        0x000000010ea72d9b QApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) + 6187
32  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d1ed56e BitSharesApp::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) + 14
33  QtCore                           0x00000001129605d7 QCoreApplicationPrivate::sendPostedEvents(QObject*, int, QThreadData*) + 631
34  libqcocoa.dylib                  0x00000001149edad6 QCocoaEventDispatcherPrivate::processPostedEvents() + 278
35  libqcocoa.dylib                  0x00000001149ee478 QCocoaEventDispatcherPrivate::postedEventsSourceCallback(void*) + 40
36  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff913705b1 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_SOURCE0_PERFORM_FUNCTION__ + 17
37  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91361c62 __CFRunLoopDoSources0 + 242
38  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff913613ef __CFRunLoopRun + 831
39  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91360e75 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 309
40  com.apple.HIToolbox              0x00007fff8d9b1a0d RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 226
41  com.apple.HIToolbox              0x00007fff8d9b17b7 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 479
42  com.apple.HIToolbox              0x00007fff8d9b15bc _BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 65
43  com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff9252624e _DPSNextEvent + 1434
44  com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff9252589b -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 122
45  com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff9251999c -[NSApplication run] + 553
46  libqcocoa.dylib                  0x00000001149ed1d4 QCocoaEventDispatcher::processEvents(QFlags<QEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag>) + 2420
47  QtCore                           0x000000011295cacd QEventLoop::exec(QFlags<QEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag>) + 381
48  QtCore                           0x0000000112960007 QCoreApplication::exec() + 359
49  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d1ebce0 BitSharesApp::run() + 2608
50  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d1eb1b5 BitSharesApp::run(int&, char**) + 469
51  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d1ccdc4 main + 20
52  libdyld.dylib                    0x00007fff993f35fd start + 1

281
General Discussion / Re: OS X client crashes on startup
« on: August 20, 2014, 09:02:46 pm »
The only version that works on my machine is 0.2.3. Both 0.3.0 and 0.4.4 are crashing.

282
General Discussion / OS X client crashes on startup
« on: August 20, 2014, 05:59:46 pm »
Right after displaying "calculating the last 3 digits of pi" the client crashes. Output:

Quote
Process:         BitSharesX [781]
Path:            /Applications/BitSharesX.app/Contents/MacOS/BitSharesX
Identifier:      org.bitshares.btsx
Version:         .. (..)
Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [157]
Responsible:     BitSharesX [781]
User ID:         502

Date/Time:       2014-08-20 10:57:04.019 -0700
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.9.4 (13E28)
Report Version:  11
Anonymous UUID: 


Crashed Thread:  0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:  EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000

Application Specific Information:
abort() called
*** error for object 0x7fff7d001330: pointer being freed was not allocated
 

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1e866 __pthread_kill + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc7035c pthread_kill + 92
2   libsystem_c.dylib                0x00007fff8bbadb1a abort + 125
3   libsystem_malloc.dylib           0x00007fff954b107f free + 411
4   libstdc++.6.dylib                0x0000000113473bce std::basic_stringbuf<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >::overflow(int) + 302
5   libstdc++.6.dylib                0x00000001134778ce std::basic_streambuf<char, std::char_traits<char> >::xsputn(char const*, long) + 62
6   libstdc++.6.dylib                0x00007fff95d63b44 std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >& std::__ostream_insert<char, std::char_traits<char> >(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*, long) + 430
7   com.AdobeAAMDetectLib.AdobeAAMDetect   0x000000012d084239 NP_Initialize + 409
8   QtWebKit                         0x000000010f9986b5 WebCore::PluginPackage::load() + 245
9   QtWebKit                         0x000000010f99771a WebCore::PluginPackage::fetchInfo() + 42
10  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f8e8157 WebCore::PluginPackage::createPackage(WTF::String const&, long const&) + 55
11  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f8e4915 WebCore::PluginDatabase::refresh() + 677
12  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f8e440c WebCore::PluginDatabase::installedPlugins(bool) + 236
13  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f529e04 PlatformStrategiesQt::getPluginInfo(WebCore::Page const*, WTF::Vector<WebCore::PluginInfo, 0ul, WTF::CrashOnOverflow>&) + 1348
14  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f84b976 WebCore::PluginData::PluginData(WebCore::Page const*) + 134
15  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f831c4e WebCore::Page::pluginData() const + 46
16  QtWebKit                         0x00000001103324a1 WebCore::DOMImplementation::createDocument(WTF::String const&, WebCore::Frame*, WebCore::KURL const&, bool) + 305
17  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f796503 WebCore::DocumentWriter::createDocument(WebCore::KURL const&) + 147
18  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f795faa WebCore::DocumentWriter::begin(WebCore::KURL const&, bool, WebCore::Document*) + 106
19  QtWebKit                         0x000000010fa422cd WebCore::SVGImage::dataChanged(bool) + 669
20  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f87bc08 WebCore::Image::setData(WTF::PassRefPtr<WebCore::SharedBuffer>, bool) + 104
21  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f77dd5e WebCore::CachedImage::finishLoading(WebCore::ResourceBuffer*) + 158
22  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f7c0935 WebCore::SubresourceLoader::didFinishLoading(double) + 133
23  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f96c331 WebCore::QNetworkReplyHandler::finish() + 257
24  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f96ac4b WebCore::QNetworkReplyHandlerCallQueue::flush() + 203
25  QtWebKit                         0x000000010f96df1a WebCore::QNetworkReplyWrapper::qt_static_metacall(QObject*, QMetaObject::Call, int, void**) + 58
26  QtCore                           0x0000000112de7c6f QMetaObject::activate(QObject*, int, int, void**) + 1871
27  QtNetwork                        0x00000001123cbf41 QNetworkReplyHttpImplPrivate::finished() + 1153
28  QtNetwork                        0x000000011244cb2d QNetworkReplyHttpImpl::qt_static_metacall(QObject*, QMetaObject::Call, int, void**) + 1901
29  QtCore                           0x0000000112de0d7b QObject::event(QEvent*) + 747
30  QtWidgets                        0x000000010eec92dc QApplicationPrivate::notify_helper(QObject*, QEvent*) + 300
31  QtWidgets                        0x000000010eecbd9b QApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) + 6187
32  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d64756e BitSharesApp::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) + 14
33  QtCore                           0x0000000112db45d7 QCoreApplicationPrivate::sendPostedEvents(QObject*, int, QThreadData*) + 631
34  libqcocoa.dylib                  0x0000000114e3aad6 QCocoaEventDispatcherPrivate::processPostedEvents() + 278
35  libqcocoa.dylib                  0x0000000114e3b478 QCocoaEventDispatcherPrivate::postedEventsSourceCallback(void*) + 40
36  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff913705b1 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_SOURCE0_PERFORM_FUNCTION__ + 17
37  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91361c62 __CFRunLoopDoSources0 + 242
38  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff913613ef __CFRunLoopRun + 831
39  com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91360e75 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 309
40  com.apple.HIToolbox              0x00007fff8d9b1a0d RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 226
41  com.apple.HIToolbox              0x00007fff8d9b17b7 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 479
42  com.apple.HIToolbox              0x00007fff8d9b15bc _BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 65
43  com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff9252624e _DPSNextEvent + 1434
44  com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff9252589b -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 122
45  com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff9251999c -[NSApplication run] + 553
46  libqcocoa.dylib                  0x0000000114e3a1d4 QCocoaEventDispatcher::processEvents(QFlags<QEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag>) + 2420
47  QtCore                           0x0000000112db0acd QEventLoop::exec(QFlags<QEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag>) + 381
48  QtCore                           0x0000000112db4007 QCoreApplication::exec() + 359
49  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d645ce0 BitSharesApp::run() + 2608
50  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d6451b5 BitSharesApp::run(int&, char**) + 469
51  org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010d626dc4 main + 20
52  libdyld.dylib                    0x00007fff993f35fd start + 1

Thread 1:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1f662 kevent64 + 10
1   libdispatch.dylib                0x00007fff8ec15421 _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 239
2   libdispatch.dylib                0x00007fff8ec15136 _dispatch_mgr_thread + 52

Thread 2:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1ee6a __workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc70f08 _pthread_wqthread + 330
2   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc73fb9 start_wqthread + 13

Thread 3:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1ee6a __workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc70f08 _pthread_wqthread + 330
2   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc73fb9 start_wqthread + 13

Thread 4:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1ee6a __workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc70f08 _pthread_wqthread + 330
2   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc73fb9 start_wqthread + 13

Thread 5:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1ee6a __workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc70f08 _pthread_wqthread + 330
2   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc73fb9 start_wqthread + 13

Thread 6:: com.apple.CFSocket.private
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1e9aa __select + 10
1   com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff913ada03 __CFSocketManager + 867
2   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc6f899 _pthread_body + 138
3   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc6f72a _pthread_start + 137
4   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc73fc9 thread_start + 13

Thread 7:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1e716 __psynch_cvwait + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc71c3b _pthread_cond_wait + 727
2   org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010db1915c boost::condition_variable::do_wait_until(boost::unique_lock<boost::mutex>&, timespec const&) + 76
3   org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010db16172 fc::thread_d::process_tasks() + 562
4   org.bitshares.btsx               0x000000010db1a7ca fc::thread_d::start_process_tasks(long) + 26

Thread 8:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f1aa1a mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libsystem_kernel.dylib           0x00007fff94f19d18 mach_msg + 64
2   com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91361f15 __CFRunLoopServiceMachPort + 181
3   com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91361539 __CFRunLoopRun + 1161
4   com.apple.CoreFoundation         0x00007fff91360e75 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 309
5   com.apple.AppKit                 0x00007fff926c605e _NSEventThread + 144
6   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc6f899 _pthread_body + 138
7   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc6f72a _pthread_start + 137
8   libsystem_pthread.dylib          0x00007fff8fc73fc9 thread_start + 13

283
中文 (Chinese) / Re: PTS何去何从，中文社区的赶紧来投票，需要你的声音。
« on: August 20, 2014, 04:33:36 am »
Quote from: sudo on August 20, 2014, 03:53:58 am
Quote from: alphaBar on August 20, 2014, 03:18:07 am
Quote from: sudo on August 20, 2014, 02:15:02 am
user issued but  1:1 map to the pts holders@snapshot  ,no one get  loss.


ags&pts just stand for rights to get honored by DACs using  bitshares toolkit
any  lowcost&stable  carrier is acceptable

You are misunderstanding me. The point is not whether anyone loses in the conversion. The point is that the market will associate PTS as a subsidiary of BTSX. This may cause potentially competing products to avoid allocation to PTS. Ethereum is currently considering using DPOS but they are objecting to the AGS/PTS allocation. If PTS was a user-issued asset in BTSX, I guarantee there would be a much stronger opposition, due to market sentiment alone. Marketing and public perception are critical to the success of PTS, since it was designed to be appealing to a wide range of DACs - NOT to be biased, preferential, or dependent upon any one DAC.

If Ethereum adopts DPOS my guess is that the price of PTS would at least double. By advocating for PTS to be a user-issued asset in BTSX, you would effectively be killing any chance of that happening.

o i see   Ethereum is a competitor of btsx

I don't see them as direct competitors, but there is certainly some overlap. If and when Bitshares X develops some type of automated scripting features the overlap will be greater. Tomorrow there may be another DAC that is released that more closely competes with BTSX. When that happens, AGS and PTS holders would benefit from getting equity in that DAC. By moving PTS to a user-issued asset in BTSX we would be discouraging competitors of BitsharesX from using DPOS. Everyone benefits from competition. Both AGS and BTS holders already have a large stake in BTSX. Why would we want to discourage future competitors from giving us equity??? Keeping PTS independent is the best option if you want to maximize your AGS and PTS investment.

284
中文 (Chinese) / Re: PTS何去何从，中文社区的赶紧来投票，需要你的声音。
« on: August 20, 2014, 03:18:07 am »
Quote from: sudo on August 20, 2014, 02:15:02 am
user issued but  1:1 map to the pts holders@snapshot  ,no one get  loss.


ags&pts just stand for rights to get honored by DACs using  bitshares toolkit
any  lowcost&stable  carrier is acceptable

You are misunderstanding me. The point is not whether anyone loses in the conversion. The point is that the market will associate PTS as a subsidiary of BTSX. This may cause potentially competing products to avoid allocation to PTS. Ethereum is currently considering using DPOS but they are objecting to the AGS/PTS allocation. If PTS was a user-issued asset in BTSX, I guarantee there would be a much stronger opposition, due to market sentiment alone. Marketing and public perception are critical to the success of PTS, since it was designed to be appealing to a wide range of DACs - NOT to be biased, preferential, or dependent upon any one DAC.

If Ethereum adopts DPOS my guess is that the price of PTS would at least double. By advocating for PTS to be a user-issued asset in BTSX, you would effectively be killing any chance of that happening.

Edit: AGS holders would also profit nicely from Ethereum adoption. Why discourage them by associating PTS with BitsharesX??? You gain nothing by doing that, but lose a tremendous amount if the Ethereum crowd decides against DPOS. They are already hesitant to adopt DPOS, and I guarantee they would not want to support a user-issued asset in a competing currency. The question you need to ask yourself is - do you want to maximize your AGS/PTS returns, or do you want to limit the success or failure of your investment to a single product.

285
BitShares PTS / Re: Bitshares PTS upgrade proposal
« on: August 20, 2014, 02:00:52 am »
I want to highlight a point I made in the Chinese thread here: Even if everything about BTSX is an absolute success, ask yourself this question: do you think Ethereum would want to allocate 10% of their shares to a user-issued asset in BTSX (a direct competitor)?

In my opinion, this is the strongest argument in favor of an independent DPOS blockchain for PTS. PTS must remain neutral and independent if it is to reach its full potential and to reach the widest adoption by new DACS - some of which will be directly competing with BTSX.

**Long Edit: The point I am making is that the market will associate PTS (and AGS by association) as a subsidiary of BTSX. This may cause potentially competing products to avoid allocation to PTS. Ethereum is currently considering using DPOS but they are objecting to the AGS/PTS allocation. If PTS was moved to BitsharesX, I guarantee they would not want to support a user-issued asset in a competing currency. Marketing and public perception are critical to the success of PTS and AGS, since they were designed to be appealing to a wide range of DACs - NOT to be biased, preferential, or dependent upon any one DAC.

If Ethereum adopts DPOS my guess is that the price of PTS would at least double. By advocating for PTS to be a user-issued asset in BTSX, you would effectively be killing any chance of that happening. AGS holders would also profit nicely from Ethereum adoption. Why discourage them by associating PTS with BitsharesX??? You gain nothing by doing that, but lose a tremendous amount if the Ethereum crowd decides against DPOS.

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