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Messages - donkeypong

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301
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: can muse currently be bought anywhere?
« on: November 18, 2015, 11:40:44 pm »
I think OPEN.xxx is an OpenLedger/CCEDK "brand", while TRADE.xxx is used by Blocktrades. Yeah, this probably isn't the cheapest price, since not many people are selling their TRADE.MUSE on there, but at least it allows us to get some MUSE before they take off the reins and let that baby sail for the moon.

I'm looking forward to having this whole exchange process embedded into a few "click, click, clicks" for someone who just wants to buy another currency at a market rate.

302
Technical Support / Re: Failed to broadcast the transaction
« on: November 18, 2015, 11:38:00 pm »
I had to try three different browsers in Windows 8; Explorer or whatever they call it now was the only one that worked; Chrome and FireFox did not. And try both OpenLedger and the Light Client. Another forum member gave me the tip that maybe I also needed to update the system clock on my computer. It was set to automatically update, so I'm not clear on why there was any problem, but I re-toggled that anyway and suddenly the import worked.

303
Technical Support / Re: How to release part of my UIA after creation ?
« on: November 18, 2015, 11:12:45 pm »
If the UIA is not appearing in your account screen, then click on your account. On the left, click on Assets and WAIT for a few seconds. That's the key, because it does not pop up right away but it will. When it pops up, you can click "Issue Asset" or "Update Asset".

304
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: can muse currently be bought anywhere?
« on: November 18, 2015, 10:53:08 pm »
Blocktrades works really well. I have used CCEDK for other things, but have not yet used it for MUSE. Here's the basic process for getting MUSE through Blocktrades.

https://blocktrades.us/

1. Buy some TRADE.MUSE on the decentralized exchange (using your BTS inside OpenLedger or the Light Client)
2. Go to the Blocktrades link above and select currencies from drop-down menu for TRADE.MUSE--> MUSE. Make sure to input your MUSE receiving address (the name you use in your MUSE wallet, not your BitShares wallet). Then click the button to get the deposit address (which is actually a specific code you will paste into your memo section). This is how you will send your TRADE.MUSE from BitShares' Openledger or Light Client.
3. From BitShares, send your TRADE.MUSE to the address: "blocktrades" (no quote marks) and paste the memo code (that Blocktrades generated for you) into the memo section before sending.

Try it with a small amount the first time and when you feel confident it works, you can send more. It's magic. The freaking thing is almost instant. By the time you get your MUSE client open again, your deposit will already be there. 

305
Kudos to you for figuring it out swiftly. I'm not pleased with the commitee's proposed fee structure (which does not fully incentivize people to refer other users), but in truth, we should all be referring people to BitShares anyway. The more people use this, the better for all of us.

306
This is a wonderful article by a reputable site.

307
General Discussion / Re: Turning the page on fees - We need yield back!
« on: November 18, 2015, 04:49:59 am »
How about we use the available money to support referral fees. Give that 6 months where we all recruit like hell, run ads, etc. And then after six months, we look at slimming down those referral fees, putting it back into the system for yield?

308
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 18, 2015, 04:43:21 am »
I believe that we need to give businesses that will rely on this transfer fee the chance to be built. 

There are businesses being damaged, which have already been built in good faith, that were relying on a competitive user to user transfer fee. As well as exciting newly built businesses like sharebits.io which would benefit from the lower fee.

BitCrab's Transwiser  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19968.msg256407.html#msg256407

China and US are different, you can see that eBay and alibaba have different charging policies, users in China used to enjoy free/low fee fundamental services, even 8BTS fee is hard to accept for them

high fees will make unexpected trouble, for me, 41 new accounts are created for CDP after import, to close these accounts I need to pay many BTSs. not sure whether other unexpected trouble will come.

as Elmato said, $0.2 USD transfer fees make some project unviable. for my project - the gateway transwiser.com, it is still viable, but I feel I need to do some change, I need to get at least 2 lifetime members and change some rules, even so I think some customers will leave because the high fee.


Sharebits.io  http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2015/11/15/sharebits-ios-launch-bringing-crypto-technology-to-mass-market-solutions/

we are doing our best to work out a fee-mitigation method that works for everyone, but in the end it will probably come down to the BTS network fee its self needing to be changed.

Elmato's  Limewallet https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17900.0.html


$0.2 USD transfer fees make some project unviable.

Im pushing Bitshares for a joint effort of two NGOs and the local crypto community which one the objectives is to provide entrepreneurs from marginal economies with a way to use digital cash. (Its a bigger project ex-Worldbank, ex-UN people working on it)
 
Basically they will be moving an IOU, but $3.2 ARS is too much for the average size of that transactions. ($30-$50)

One of the founders of http://www.rootstock.io/ is heavily involved in the project also, so that platform is on the table also even if its on alpha stage.


We've heard rumors that there were businesses whose entire business model was just ripped out from under them (again) due to removal of fees. Thank you for presenting some....empirical evidence of this.


309
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 18, 2015, 03:12:56 am »
It goes without saying (though I'm glad you did) that we need a non-buggy interface. I think that we will have something soon which is quite good and that it will continue to improve.

And yes, we need to get to a stable point where we stop tweaking important shit. Just find a balance and leave it there, giving us some predictability and the chance to let it develop. For example, some people have built businesses on the basis of expecting future referral fees. Then it changes once, it changes again and suddenly they're basically gone. WTF? Why exactly do people want to be involved with BitShares and invest their money in developing infrastructure to support it when it keeps getting changed from one expectation to another? It will be marketable when we have something solid, not ever-changing.

310
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 18, 2015, 01:36:36 am »
Okay, if committee members are listening (thank you), then here is how I would suggest you could please most parties.

--Largely keep the present fee structure, which supports referral fees and therefore enables marketing. To that default structure, make the following modifications.
--Lower trading fees as much as possible. (We need that business.)
--Direct the team to create a merchant identification process, perhaps at registration (Perhaps limit the monthly number of transfers by individuals; a higher number of transactions would trigger merchant pricing.). Resolve that once this has been created, merchants will be charged a percentage-based fee, while peer-to-peer transactions between individuals will be cheaper.
--In the meantime (while the merchant identification mechanism is being developed), run a short-term "sales price promotion" with extremely low transfer fees on bitCNY. On February 28, 2016, or as soon as the merchant mechanism is created and P2P fees lowered, the bitCNY promotion would expire. Until then, it's a way to bring us more users, and if they try it, hopefully they'll find much more here.

I'm open to other suggestions, but this is a distillation of everything I have heard so far that makes sense. Rather than a midpoint compromise that doesn't achieve anyone's aims, what these changes would do is to (1) salvage some funding for referral fees and marketing, (2) make the exchange more attractive to traders, and (3) give low-fee advocates both an immediate tool and the promise of longer term, lower transfer fees for individuals.

Finally, KEEP IT for a few months, making only urgent changes as needed. Let this thing develop and let us promote BitShares without continuously moving the goal posts and changing the expectations.

EDIT: Again, thanks for listening. I know you all have BitShares' best interests in mind, as do I, whether or not we always agree on everything.

311
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 18, 2015, 12:29:18 am »
So sorry to see everyone's complaining. Let me share my personal feeling.

Since the launch, we always have increasing fees, from 0.5 to 20, to 40, and now facing to 60 ($0.2). I think we need to see the opposite direction.

As a lower-fee advocate, I still prefer 5-10 BTS. But I don't want to destroy our growing business based on referral system. (While I still think that lower fee can bring more users and profit for referrers). In this dilemma, I had to decide to satisfy only one side with beating the other, or making a compromise.

Decreasing just 25% is obviously not satisfying to both sides. However, IMHO, it does not break this community into pieces. It maybe not a win-win solution, but better than zero-sum approach. I think it's not a final destination. We're still on the way, and if the community makes a consensus, we can move toward it.

Regarding the order creation fee, we haven't discussed yet because BM's proposal is in the pipeline. After the release, we will discuss about lowering the fee.

Thanks for your invaluable inputs and feedback. We're open to any opinions.

What was so urgent about making an immediate decision that no one likes? I definitely think the committee members could have suspended the meeting long enough to come back to the community and said "Here is what we're looking at; what do you think?" Or "There's not enough support for this proposal. What about a midway compromise instead?"

And we would have told you straight up that no, this was not a wise choice for any of the parties concerned.

Unless you think that the lower fee is now low enough that you can get some traction in your home country or in China. In which case, I say 'go for it'. You wanted the lower fees, you've got them (at least in a half-assed sort of way). The pricing structure does not work well in first world countries where we were trying to fund some marketing, so if this is what you wanted, it's now your turn to show us what you can do. Bring us some volume.

312
General Discussion / Re: Turning the page on fees - We need yield back!
« on: November 17, 2015, 10:59:28 pm »
This is just the biggest marketing tool BItShares could ever have...

Agreed. Yield or referral fees; either one would drive massive business toward BitShares.

313
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 17, 2015, 10:53:56 pm »

Am I missing something?

No, you are correct and I misused that term. Edited my previous post. What I really meant was currencies, not c-pairs.

314
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 17, 2015, 10:48:43 pm »
When I mentioned different regions, I just meant the currencies that would be most logical in those regions. No geo-locating needed.

It wouldn't bother me at all if certain currencies got more business than others due to lower fees. This happens when a store puts items on sale; they usually sell more sale items than non-sale items. It's just smart business: You make money from a higher volume of business or you use the sale for a period of time to attract more customers who hopefully find other things they like and don't mind paying a bit more after a while.

If the lower fee thing really works, we'll find out by trying it, either across the board or in these limited "sales". If the lower fee doesn't attract added business, then we'll be confident that we could go forward with a system that's built for more profitability.

Instead, at the moment, we've split the difference on the fees, so we won't learn anything.

315
General Discussion / Re: First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal
« on: November 17, 2015, 10:17:34 pm »
The best compromise is the one where all sides equally unhappy.

Normally I'd agree with you, because I love consensus and compromise. When you get attacked equally from both sides, you've done fairly well. But here, there is a major difference, which is that the price point they reached promotes nothing but paralysis for everyone. Personally, I'm in favor of maintaining "high" fees except on trading, but I would have been much happier if they'd betrayed my group and went 100% with the low fee group, because at least someone would have been able to make this work well.

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