Payout Referral Commisions in Smartcoins

[abit]

I was proposing NOT to use other assets to pay referrers, but let the BTS be there (as is), and make use of it in your client software (you can show it as something else, not a "share"). Paying non-BTS assets to referrers is not possible with current design, and hard to change (not impossible though). Only BTS in pools, no other assets, so the system can't sell them automatically. Automatically borrowing is too risky for the system. Automatically buying smart coins from market is expensive due to illiquidity, unless you setup a huge sell wall there by yourself. You can also setup a service, so your users can exchange their BTS to other smart coins from you (you buy from market for them or whatever method).

I'm not going to set up a worker if only you need a feature.

I remember puppy is helping you with something. If you're not too familiar with how BitShares works, best ask puppy to join the discussion.

Thanks for the reply @abit .  Since it will be difficult to pay in non-BTS assets, what about a feature to allow any user to pay for another user's membership?  That doesn't seem as complicated.  It will 1) allow businesses to have a roundabout way to pay referrals in non-BTS assets. 2) allow users to pay for other people's membership dues as gifts.

Do you have an estimate of the cost to implement a feature that enables users to pay membership dues for others?  I can create a worker proposal and try to rally people or raise enough funds to implement this as long as it's not too complicated or expensive.

It's possible with multi-operation transactions + proposals in your *CLIENT SOFTWARE*, not have to modify the block chain core code. It can also be done in core anyway. IMHO, since there is too few people working on the core right now, and relative more people can work on client software, it's better for you to have it done in client software.

You can use worker to fund it, or use other funds e.g. IPO to develop it first then sell it to the stake holders via worker when most completed.

For technical details, please ask a technician to join the discussion. I'm afraid that I can not explain it clearly enough to you, nor have enough experience on cost/time estimation of client software.

[merivercap]

I was proposing NOT to use other assets to pay referrers, but let the BTS be there (as is), and make use of it in your client software (you can show it as something else, not a "share"). Paying non-BTS assets to referrers is not possible with current design, and hard to change (not impossible though). Only BTS in pools, no other assets, so the system can't sell them automatically. Automatically borrowing is too risky for the system. Automatically buying smart coins from market is expensive due to illiquidity, unless you setup a huge sell wall there by yourself. You can also setup a service, so your users can exchange their BTS to other smart coins from you (you buy from market for them or whatever method).

I'm not going to set up a worker if only you need a feature.

I remember puppy is helping you with something. If you're not too familiar with how BitShares works, best ask puppy to join the discussion.

Thanks for the reply @abit .  Since it will be difficult to pay in non-BTS assets, what about a feature to allow any user to pay for another user's membership?  That doesn't seem as complicated.  It will 1) allow businesses to have a roundabout way to pay referrals in non-BTS assets. 2) allow users to pay for other people's membership dues as gifts.

Do you have an estimate of the cost to implement a feature that enables users to pay membership dues for others?  I can create a worker proposal and try to rally people or raise enough funds to implement this as long as it's not too complicated or expensive.

[abit]

Bump!

BTW can we create an object/flag that determines what asset to pay out the referral?  The reason I ask is if we create a Privatized Smartcoin and want to give users that Smartcoin as the payout that would be the only way we can make the most use of the referral program.  We have a simple USD wallet and #1) people won't even see their BTS #2) they may get the Public Smartcoin USD which the wallet won't display.

 

Sounds like some kind of white-listing. Account can set a list of acceptable assets, so other assets wouldn't enter that account. Or say, payment will fail if the account doesn't accept that 'currency'. If I can implement it, will you fund the development, or I need to apply for another worker?

Another related issue: for example, cancelled market orders will give the user some BTS. I have an idea that BTS can be displayed as "special points" in your wallet, so your user can spend them in some way, you can make a UI to let user select "pay in smartcoin" or "pay in special points", it's all allowed in the back end. You need to have enough fee pool balance so the user can pay directly in your smart coin.

And maybe there are other ways to achieve your goal.

The main thing is to allow the registrar to select the asset a referrer receives payouts in.   Is that somehow taken from the main network reserve balance?  I guess we would have to somehow automatically trade the BTS payout for the designated asset in the market or create the asset by borrowing and issuing it to the user.   I think a worker proposal for this would suffice.  Thx.

I'll keep the cancelled market order/point system in mind if we create an exchange down the road.

I was proposing NOT to use other assets to pay referrers, but let the BTS be there (as is), and make use of it in your client software (you can show it as something else, not a "share"). Paying non-BTS assets to referrers is not possible with current design, and hard to change (not impossible though). Only BTS in pools, no other assets, so the system can't sell them automatically. Automatically borrowing is too risky for the system. Automatically buying smart coins from market is expensive due to illiquidity, unless you setup a huge sell wall there by yourself. You can also setup a service, so your users can exchange their BTS to other smart coins from you (you buy from market for them or whatever method).

I'm not going to set up a worker if only you need a feature.

I remember puppy is helping you with something. If you're not too familiar with how BitShares works, best ask puppy to join the discussion.

[merivercap]

@abit
Had a question.  We want to pay out referral commissions in our Privatized Smartcoin called CASH.USD.  Can you think of an easy way to enable this?

One option is just for our company Bitcash to take 100% of referral revenue from our faucet in the form of BTS and create our own referral program by sending the referrers  CASH.USD instead of BTS by keeping track of referrers ourselves.  The only problem is that users can only upgrade memberships by paying BTS instead of CASH.USD so they won't be able to upgrade  using their own CASH.USD-only wallets. 

Could we create an operation to allow someone to pay for another user's membership?  Then we can pay for the upgrade using BTS if they send us CASH.USD.  This operation can also be useful for allowing any user to gift membership dues to others.    Let me know.   Thanks. 

[merivercap]

Bump!

BTW can we create an object/flag that determines what asset to pay out the referral?  The reason I ask is if we create a Privatized Smartcoin and want to give users that Smartcoin as the payout that would be the only way we can make the most use of the referral program.  We have a simple USD wallet and #1) people won't even see their BTS #2) they may get the Public Smartcoin USD which the wallet won't display.

 

Sounds like some kind of white-listing. Account can set a list of acceptable assets, so other assets wouldn't enter that account. Or say, payment will fail if the account doesn't accept that 'currency'. If I can implement it, will you fund the development, or I need to apply for another worker?

Another related issue: for example, cancelled market orders will give the user some BTS. I have an idea that BTS can be displayed as "special points" in your wallet, so your user can spend them in some way, you can make a UI to let user select "pay in smartcoin" or "pay in special points", it's all allowed in the back end. You need to have enough fee pool balance so the user can pay directly in your smart coin.

And maybe there are other ways to achieve your goal.

The main thing is to allow the registrar to select the asset a referrer receives payouts in.   Is that somehow taken from the main network reserve balance?  I guess we would have to somehow automatically trade the BTS payout for the designated asset in the market or create the asset by borrowing and issuing it to the user.   I think a worker proposal for this would suffice.  Thx.

I'll keep the cancelled market order/point system in mind if we create an exchange down the road. 

[abit]

Bump!

BTW can we create an object/flag that determines what asset to pay out the referral?  The reason I ask is if we create a Privatized Smartcoin and want to give users that Smartcoin as the payout that would be the only way we can make the most use of the referral program.  We have a simple USD wallet and #1) people won't even see their BTS #2) they may get the Public Smartcoin USD which the wallet won't display.

 

Sounds like some kind of white-listing. Account can set a list of acceptable assets, so other assets wouldn't enter that account. Or say, payment will fail if the account doesn't accept that 'currency'. If I can implement it, will you fund the development, or I need to apply for another worker?

Another related issue: for example, cancelled market orders will give the user some BTS. I have an idea that BTS can be displayed as "special points" in your wallet, so your user can spend them in some way, you can make a UI to let user select "pay in smartcoin" or "pay in special points", it's all allowed in the back end. You need to have enough fee pool balance so the user can pay directly in your smart coin.

And maybe there are other ways to achieve your goal.

[merivercap]

Bump!

BTW can we create an object/flag that determines what asset to pay out the referral?  The reason I ask is if we create a Privatized Smartcoin and want to give users that Smartcoin as the payout that would be the only way we can make the most use of the referral program.  We have a simple USD wallet and #1) people won't even see their BTS #2) they may get the Public Smartcoin USD which the wallet won't display.

 

[EstefanTT]

Off course we are all happy to speak about bts around some drinks from time to time. But, if you want to build a solid project on bts with an initial investment in time and money, you need the referral program to make it worth.

When Coinbase give to someone money to bring you on their platform, where do you think the money comes from ? It comes from your future fees ;p

[yvv]

I am sorry, but helping a new user to set up first account and then charging a shit of fees out of him is a bullshit. A guy who created my first account does not deserve 80% of my fees. Referral should not be a way to make profit. It should be a way to help new user, rather than scare him away with high fees. All bitshares holders are motivated enough to bring new users in order to grow the network and raise BTS price. No monetary reward for referring is necessary, it's enough to compensate referrer's expenses. My referral link would be in my signature on all forums which I use if I wouldn't need to buy LTM for this.

[fav]

but what will happen if the price is rising?

it's a gamble. and unpredictable hence the change to stablecoins

[Shentist]

but what will happen if the price is rising?

[btstip]

Hey fuzzy, here are the results of your tips...

• fav: has been credited 1 FISTBUMP

Curious about ShareBits? Visit us at http://sharebits.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!

Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20929.msg274523/topicseen.html#msg274523

Created by hybridd

[fuzzy]

ill do one better than a simple bump.  ill give #sharebits "fav" 1 FISTBUMP

this is a very good point   

[xeroc]

fees will eventually be tracked .. and I finished writing the requried scripts for the committee just today

[fav]

bump