Bitshare roughly estimated at $100

[luckybit]

But if I should believe the price is going to drop to $5 wouldn't I turn it into BitUSD before people could sell it down to $5 to lock my BTS value at those higher prices? If the price of BTS goes down you want to lock in your profits somehow and BitUSD is how you do it. Once people sell it down to $5 I can buy more BTS with BitUSD without even having to leave the Bitshares ecosystem.

Or am I missing something here?

Correct.

But before you said

because if it works as intended I could lock my profits in BitUSD

  which made me think you mean you want to lock your BTS by buying BitUSD if BTS goes up.

Overall: Buying BitUSD is selling BTS and vice versa. Leaving the Bitshares Ecosystem doesnt matter as long as you trust the Bitsahres ecosystem just as much as a centralized exchange.

Buying BitUSD isn't actually buying in the sense that anything is bought and sold. It's saving your buying power as BitUSD to shield you from downward volatility mainly.

So if Bitshares is going to $5 for the summer, why not buy BitUSD immediately and let it crash as low as it can? It all depends on the tools the minimum viable product has.

[santaclause102]

But if I should believe the price is going to drop to $5 wouldn't I turn it into BitUSD before people could sell it down to $5 to lock my BTS value at those higher prices? If the price of BTS goes down you want to lock in your profits somehow and BitUSD is how you do it. Once people sell it down to $5 I can buy more BTS with BitUSD without even having to leave the Bitshares ecosystem.

Or am I missing something here?

Correct.

But before you said

because if it works as intended I could lock my profits in BitUSD

  which made me think you mean you want to lock your BTS by buying BitUSD if BTS goes up.

Overall: Buying BitUSD is selling BTS and vice versa. Leaving the Bitshares Ecosystem doesnt matter as long as you trust the Bitsahres ecosystem just as much as a centralized exchange.

[luckybit]

None of us have to lose money. I just hope shorting as a feature is included in the test release. 

[luckybit]

I would pay the least possible. So I'd definitely be able to get more from the guy selling for $5 than you selling at $100.

I think we both agree on this. Bitshares can be a game changer if it works but that is not neccesarily determining the short term price.

If I had unlimited money, I would pay up to $500 per BTS. The reason why is the price I pay to get into BTS isn't so important because if it works as intended I could lock my profits in BitUSD. I don't have to worry about the volatility like I do with Bitcoin. So the initial price doesn't matter, what matters is that I cannot lose money so whatever I paid I would seek to lock in. I would not sell for less than I paid, and I would just buy Bitshares at $200 for instance and then quickly store it as BitUSD at $200 knowing that at some point in the future that $200 will get paid dividends.

If you take all your BTS and buy BitUSD with it it is like selling it for USD at whatever price BTS is at at that point except that the USD are issued by the Bitshares system. You dont have any BTS then anymore and can not profit from the value increase of BTS.

But if I should believe the price is going to drop to $5 wouldn't I turn it into BitUSD before people could sell it down to $5 to lock my BTS value at those higher prices? If the price of BTS goes down you want to lock in your profits somehow and BitUSD is how you do it. Once people sell it down to $5 I can buy more BTS with BitUSD without even having to leave the Bitshares ecosystem.

Or am I missing something here?

If BTS can provide a decent yield (5%) the market cap will run into the hundreds of billions in short order.

Do not forget the largest and most liquid population of investors - baby boomers - are absolutely desperate for yield, and that desperation is only going to increase in the coming years.

Rates on debt are a joke, counterparty risk with gov debt is growing, and equity markets are on life support.

When the music stops and investors go risk-off, BTS could be a highly attractive investment option.

The hot money comes hard and fast... hope we're ready for it.

I doubt this. We will see $100+ this summer for sure if Bitshares is marketed solid. Months away is not long term.

The only reason it wouldn't be able to reach $100+ is poor marketing. People looking to get out of Bitcoin because Bitcoin is going down in USD price have to park their wealth somewhere while that happens. People who want to invest long term in crypto have to invest somewhere.

The only reason it wont take off is if somehow it doesn't work as intended. If it does then there is nothing else like it and BTS is perhaps the best investment in the world.

It's an order of magnitude better than Bitcoin. Some of the complaints Warren Buffett and others had about Bitcoin don't apply as well to Bitshares. There is no volatility issue, it will hold value even if the price of BTS goes down.

For example lets say people in the community are foolish and intend to sell for prices like $10 or $5, so we now can either park our value in BitBTC, BitGLD or BitUSD. When shorting is added as a feature we'll actually be able to make money within Bitshares itself from people selling Bitshares at bargain prices while we buy the Bitshares at those bargain prices.

Simply short BTS and go long BitBTC.

Buy up the cheap BTS while the whales dump them at silly prices.
When the dumping ends, stop shorting, put your profit in BitUSD. Wait for the next dump and do another sweep.

This summer is going to be a lot of fun.

[Shentist]

we will see.

depends all for the motivation of the buyer and how they funded AGS investment. In my example i bought btc at this time and converted it in AGS donation. So in the short run i will not sell under 10 US $ because i would lose money. If we see 20 US $? I am bullish at BTS, but maybe i sell some to cover the costs. Success of the project is not 100%, so it will depends on the added feature to add value es well.

[muse-umum]

$100 is the long term target. As far as I know , most of the Chinese would sell at $10. So, be prepared to get the cheap xts.

[oldman]

If BTS can provide a decent yield (5%) the market cap will run into the hundreds of billions in short order.

Do not forget the largest and most liquid population of investors - baby boomers - are absolutely desperate for yield, and that desperation is only going to increase in the coming years.

Rates on debt are a joke, counterparty risk with gov debt is growing, and equity markets are on life support.

When the music stops and investors go risk-off, BTS could be a highly attractive investment option.

The hot money comes hard and fast... hope we're ready for it.

[santaclause102]

I would pay the least possible. So I'd definitely be able to get more from the guy selling for $5 than you selling at $100.

I think we both agree on this. Bitshares can be a game changer if it works but that is not neccesarily determining the short term price.

If I had unlimited money, I would pay up to $500 per BTS. The reason why is the price I pay to get into BTS isn't so important because if it works as intended I could lock my profits in BitUSD. I don't have to worry about the volatility like I do with Bitcoin. So the initial price doesn't matter, what matters is that I cannot lose money so whatever I paid I would seek to lock in. I would not sell for less than I paid, and I would just buy Bitshares at $200 for instance and then quickly store it as BitUSD at $200 knowing that at some point in the future that $200 will get paid dividends.

If you take all your BTS and buy BitUSD with it it is like selling it for USD at whatever price BTS is at at that point except that the USD are issued by the Bitshares system. You dont have any BTS then anymore and can not profit from the value increase of BTS.

[luckybit]

Luckybit, I have about 140 XTS waiting for me in the genesis block. What would you pay for them? Seriously, if I could sell you my XTS, would you pay $100 each? If not $100, I'm curious what number. I'm serious, I'm not baiting you.

Since you're pretty bullish, your offer would give us a nice rough guess of an upper bound for the opening price of XTS.

Also, if you actually are willing to pay $100, we should try to make that happen.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

I would pay the least possible. So I'd definitely be able to get more from the guy selling for $5 than you selling at $100. After it's sold out at $5 I would work my way up to $100.

I think anything under $500 is to be considered cheap. I would not trade a BTS 1:1 with a Bitcoin of course but if I believe at some point Bytemaster will get it working as intended I would definitely pay over $100, over $200 even.

If I had unlimited money, I would pay up to $500 per BTS. The reason why is the price I pay to get into BTS isn't so important because if it works as intended I could lock my profits in BitUSD. I don't have to worry about the volatility like I do with Bitcoin. So the initial price doesn't matter, what matters is that I cannot lose money so whatever I paid I would seek to lock in. I would not sell for less than I paid, and I would just buy Bitshares at $200 for instance and then quickly store it as BitUSD at $200 knowing that at some point in the future that $200 will get paid dividends.

So the difference here is between the day traders who only look at short term profit, and the people like me who can look at where things will be in a few years. Additionally I have a decent understanding of the technology, better than most. If you can read the code, understand what Bitshares will do once completed, and you know the significance, it's not a faith based decision to set the price over $100 when by design its superior technology to Bitcoin in all ways.

Bitcoin is going for around $500 right now. I think Bitshares is already better than Bitcoin technologically speaking.

1. Bitshares source code is easy to read, easily more extensible, much more powerful.
2. Bitshares is more disruptive, Bitshares will change capitalism as we know it.
3. The potential market cap for Bitshares is much higher than the potential market cap for Bitcoin, it can replace forex, the stock markets, futures, derivatives and prediction markets.
4. Bitshares will be the best store of wealth / store of value. All of the other cryptocurrencies doing the same thing are being set up as charity coins, think Ethereum and Counterparty.
5. Bitshares has a pretty good budget, highly motivated and talented programmers, and a community which for it's size seems to have more innovative minds, skilled programmers, visionaries, than any other except for Mastercoin.


So I use these 5 points, maybe more but mainly those. I look at the minds behind a project, I look at the motivation of the developers (not just how skilled). I look at the talent of the minds involved. I look at the technology itself and whether or not it has features which Bitcoin cannot duplicate or adopt.

Bitcoin will never be able to be both a good store of value and good currency because of how it's designed. It was not designed to scale. It's designed to be e-cash and that is it. For this reason I expect Colored Coin to be at a disadvantage. I expect Mastercoin to have certain advantages and disadvantages because it's relying on Bitcoin's blockchain. I expect Counterparty to have the same disadvantages as Mastercoin and it is basically just a clone (the Litecoin of Mastercoin).

Bitshares is in a class of it's own. Whether or not you all can see that yet is another matter.

I expect Bitshares to be moderately successful in the short term, and whether or not it achieves long term success will depend on whether or not it learns from the mistakes of Bitcoin. Any serious student of technology, the political atmosphere around the Bitcoin community, the source code itself, they know the mistakes.

[JakeThePanda]

All I have to say about this thread is we'll know soon enough.  Let's move along.

[biophil]

Luckybit, I have about 140 XTS waiting for me in the genesis block. What would you pay for them? Seriously, if I could sell you my XTS, would you pay $100 each? If not $100, I'm curious what number. I'm serious, I'm not baiting you.

Since you're pretty bullish, your offer would give us a nice rough guess of an upper bound for the opening price of XTS.

Also, if you actually are willing to pay $100, we should try to make that happen.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[luckybit]

We all believe in BTS long term.
But the poll is a joke. Who wouldnt enter any figure just for fun or for setting price expectations.

So you'd be willing to sell your Bitshares for $5 each? I hope you sell them just to prove the polls wrong.

And BTS at 5$ is not equal to PTS at 5$ because BTS supply is twice the PTS supply, maybe even more because PTS are not all mined yet.

PTS doesn't do anything. While I don't know how crippled BTSXT will be, if it has BitUSD functioning that alone is reason not to sell for $5. Once again it depends on just how crippled the test release is which will determine the price.

When people decide to sell their BTSXT at some point later they'll have to buy their way back in. What would be compelling enough to make people sell when the price later will only be higher once certain features are brought in?

Which leads me to: How does coinmarketcap.com calulate the market cap? Based on the final money supply or based on the current money supply?

The important considerations are the assets in circulation and marketing, the role of BitUSD and the other commodities, whether or not BTSXT will hit the exchanges or not. If it hits the exchanges it wont be $5 for long.

If it does not hit the exchanges for a while or if it's totally crippled then I could see it being cheap, but how cheap and for how long? I don't think $5 makes much sense. At $5 in my opinion it's hilariously under-priced and it's going to be just like the guy who spent 10,000 BTC on pizza. If you want to sell 500 BTS at $5 go right ahead. In a couple of years 1 BTS will be worth the 500 you sold at $5.

[sumantso]

How does coinmarketcap.com calulate the market cap? Based on the final money supply or based on the current money supply?
 

I believe current supply. But they ignore the 'unavailable' coins. Like for Ripple they just multiply with the total amount even though most of them are locked up.

[santaclause102]

We all believe in BTS long term.
But the poll is a joke. Who wouldnt enter any figure just for fun or for setting price expectations.
And BTS at 5$ is not equal to PTS at 5$ because BTS supply is twice the PTS supply, maybe even more because PTS are not all mined yet. Which leads me to: How does coinmarketcap.com calulate the market cap? Based on the final money supply or based on the current money supply?
 

[sumantso]

I think I see what you're trying to do now. You're trying to get cheap shares. You believe if you talk it down to $5 that it will be $5.

I was about to contest a couple of your points but this endeth the discussion.