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Quote from: OldMan on October 16, 2014, 03:09:30 pmQuote from: luckybit on October 16, 2014, 12:36:13 pmQuote from: trader on October 16, 2014, 12:34:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:04 pmI mean sell remaining btc. Keeping pts and btsxAbout 2000 btc leftCan you say when you will do this? 2000 btc would eat the sell wall like the cookie monster.Now wouldn't be a good time to do it. BTC is too cheap.It would be wise to divest BTC over a six or 12 month period.It's never wise to sell on a downward pressure in something which has long term growth potential. BTC has long term growth potential and is at an all time low. It would be wise not to sell this year also because a lot of BTC has been stolen, Wall Street hasn't jumped in yet, mainstreet hasn't jumped in yet, 2000 BTC is millions of dollars worth of BTC.In my opinion when it's worth enough that the interest on the BTC is enough to start hiring people then Bytemaster should trade BTC for BitBTC or BitUSD. If it's BitBTC then 2000 BTC is always 2000 BTC but you get interest. If it's BitUSD it doesn't make much sense at these prices.When Bitcoin is at all time highs all of us are going to want that interest. The really interesting question is will the interest be in BitBTC or in BitUSD?
Quote from: luckybit on October 16, 2014, 12:36:13 pmQuote from: trader on October 16, 2014, 12:34:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:04 pmI mean sell remaining btc. Keeping pts and btsxAbout 2000 btc leftCan you say when you will do this? 2000 btc would eat the sell wall like the cookie monster.Now wouldn't be a good time to do it. BTC is too cheap.It would be wise to divest BTC over a six or 12 month period.
Quote from: trader on October 16, 2014, 12:34:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:04 pmI mean sell remaining btc. Keeping pts and btsxAbout 2000 btc leftCan you say when you will do this? 2000 btc would eat the sell wall like the cookie monster.Now wouldn't be a good time to do it. BTC is too cheap.
Quote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:31 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:04 pmI mean sell remaining btc. Keeping pts and btsxAbout 2000 btc leftCan you say when you will do this? 2000 btc would eat the sell wall like the cookie monster.
Quote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 12:10:04 pmI mean sell remaining btc. Keeping pts and btsxAbout 2000 btc left
I mean sell remaining btc. Keeping pts and btsx
Quote from: 天籁 on October 16, 2014, 02:30:35 am Quote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 02:03:13 amQuote from: Mysto on October 16, 2014, 01:54:30 amQuote from: luckybit on October 16, 2014, 12:26:02 amIf we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves. I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX. We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD. Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.
Quote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 02:03:13 amQuote from: Mysto on October 16, 2014, 01:54:30 amQuote from: luckybit on October 16, 2014, 12:26:02 amIf we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves. I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX. We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD. Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.
Quote from: Mysto on October 16, 2014, 01:54:30 amQuote from: luckybit on October 16, 2014, 12:26:02 amIf we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves. I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX. We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD. Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.
Quote from: luckybit on October 16, 2014, 12:26:02 amIf we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves. I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!
If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.
It's never wise to sell on a downward pressure in something which has long term growth potential. Huuh?BTC has long term growth potential and is at an all time low. Huuh? What are talking about man? All time low was less then a penny man. It would be wise not to sell this year also because a lot of BTC has been stolen, Wall Street hasn't jumped in yet, mainstreet hasn't jumped in yet, 2000 BTC is millions of dollars worth of BTC.What? Last I checked it was less than a mill.In my opinion when it's worth enough that the interest on the BTC is enough to start hiring people then Bytemaster should trade BTC for BitBTC or BitUSD. If it's BitBTC then 2000 BTC is always 2000 BTC but you get interest. If it's BitUSD it doesn't make much sense at these prices.When Bitcoin is at all time highs all of us are going to want that interest. The really interesting question is will the interest be in BitBTC or in BitUSD?
It's never wise to sell on a downward pressure in something which has long term growth potential. BTC has long term growth potential and is at an all time low. It would be wise not to sell this year also because a lot of BTC has been stolen, Wall Street hasn't jumped in yet, mainstreet hasn't jumped in yet, 2000 BTC is millions of dollars worth of BTC.In my opinion when it's worth enough that the interest on the BTC is enough to start hiring people then Bytemaster should trade BTC for BitBTC or BitUSD. If it's BitBTC then 2000 BTC is always 2000 BTC but you get interest. If it's BitUSD it doesn't make much sense at these prices.When Bitcoin is at all time highs all of us are going to want that interest. The really interesting question is will the interest be in BitBTC or in BitUSD?
Now wouldn't be a good time to do it. BTC is too cheap.
I've started using bitUSD as my savings account. The money is only a couple days away and it kicks the living tar out of my checking account (yield is so low on savings accounts it's just not worth the hassle).Besides if I'm not putting my money where my mouth is than what are we talking about? Time to get on board for real.Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX. We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD. Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.
I'm not sure we have anything to offer those who do not have a saving habit. If you are living hand to mouth with no savings at the end of the month, then by definition you would be selling your bitUSD as soon as you got it. You would not be holding it for yield and you would not be worried about your government inflating away its value or confiscating your nest egg.
I guess we could collect fees for the wages passing through our network, but is that really helping people?
Such people are better off getting paid in fiat wherever they can earn the most for their time, cashing their paycheck, and spending it with no fees of any kind.
So, I view BitUSD as the best place for savers to keep their savings. This option is open to everybody who is able to save, so this is where it makes the most sense to place the on-ramp.
Rather than engineering a thousand ways for different skill sets to earn bitUSD, lets engineer just one way for all those skill sets to save. That's the most cost effective way to benefit everybody who can benefit.
Quote from: Stan on October 15, 2014, 02:30:54 pmQuote from: luckybit on October 15, 2014, 12:22:26 pmI think because we are in the early stages we put perhaps too much emphasis on BitUSD "adoption" when we should put more emphasis on using BitUSD ourselves. In order to do that we need ways to set up smart contracts or other means so that we can easily pay developers in BitUSD.I think the future for BitUSD is bright but we have to use it before merchants will care about it. Bitcoin is slow to focus on payroll and paying wages because Bitcoin isn't good for that. BitUSD doesn't have to be slow at that because it's perfect for that.So instead of focusing on where we can spend BitUSD we should focus on allowing people to earn it through DACs somehow so that more of us have some through earnings. It doesn't make a lot of sense why people would take regular USD out of their bank and buy BitUSD but it does make sense that people would work for BitUSD and then start using it.I'm I am new to this space, never heard of Bitcoin before and I ask: "How can I earn some BitUSD?" what would I be told?Good ideas here, but there is an overriding Universal Economic Truth that should be mentioned and you have created a "teachable moment" for us all:Money is fungible. If you want a certain kind of money, you should earn whatever kind of money you can earn most efficiently and then buy the kind of money you want to hold with it.This is the idea behind the trend of "mining the most profitable asset, selling it, and using the proceeds to buy the most promising asset."So, we shouldn't create low-value make-work tasks for earning bitUSD. If the most profitable use of your time is shining shoes for Zimbabwe dollars, well, shine shoes for Zimbabwe dollars! Then quickly sell and buy bitUSD, bitGLD, bitBTC or BTSX. How do we help people most efficiently earn BitUSD then? It's like analog to digital conversion or copying tape to tape in a studio where with each copy the signal quality reduces. The act of actually earning BitUSD is what conditions people to value BitUSD as they do USD. The same conditioning process would work for any of the other currencies supported by Bitshares X.In my opinion if we want BitUSD to be used by everyone then instead of telling people to use Zimbabwe dollars before converting into BitUSD we should let them earn BitUSD or BitZWD directly. How else do you promote a currency if hardly anyone works for it directly?Bitcoin is suffering from the same problem. Everyone says to buy Bitcoin but Bitcoin is volatile. If people said to work for Bitcoin then people wouldn't care as much about speculating with it. Bitcoin is volatile so people cannot save in it but with Bitshares X you can save your BitUSD as BitGLD.So the idea is you want to get people to work to earn BitUSD (no matter if it's high or low value it's still activity which has some value), then store their savings in BitGLD. Mining for Bitshares could actually work to a certain extent for the mining community but if you want to bring the whole world into it then you have to market to the whole world.If someone isn't from the USA then maybe they don't want BitUSD. Maybe they want to work and earn in their own currency. In order to market their own currency to them we need testimonials where people around the world are working and earning BitCNY, BitJPY, or whatever their local currency is.This way if someone from here wants to start a business which is or is not a DAC then we can pay our employees in their local currency of choice easily. It doesn't really matter what the business is or how much money the business makes, it only matters that workers are exposed to and become accustomed to earning digital currency.I hope we can avoid making the same mistakes Bitcoin made and actually encourage adoption by the working class (not just merchant class). I think one problem I've identified with the current marketing is that it doesn't seem international in scope and the best way to make it international in scope is to translate into as many languages as possible while also launching all the different currencies so that people in these countries can pay their employees in BitAssets. I understand it's really early on in the development of this new industry but I think it should at least be a priority for each of us to try to reach a point in our lives where we earn all of our money in crypto-currency (BitUSD preferably) so that we can market the product by using it which is something the Bitcoin community isn't doing.
Quote from: luckybit on October 15, 2014, 12:22:26 pmI think because we are in the early stages we put perhaps too much emphasis on BitUSD "adoption" when we should put more emphasis on using BitUSD ourselves. In order to do that we need ways to set up smart contracts or other means so that we can easily pay developers in BitUSD.I think the future for BitUSD is bright but we have to use it before merchants will care about it. Bitcoin is slow to focus on payroll and paying wages because Bitcoin isn't good for that. BitUSD doesn't have to be slow at that because it's perfect for that.So instead of focusing on where we can spend BitUSD we should focus on allowing people to earn it through DACs somehow so that more of us have some through earnings. It doesn't make a lot of sense why people would take regular USD out of their bank and buy BitUSD but it does make sense that people would work for BitUSD and then start using it.I'm I am new to this space, never heard of Bitcoin before and I ask: "How can I earn some BitUSD?" what would I be told?Good ideas here, but there is an overriding Universal Economic Truth that should be mentioned and you have created a "teachable moment" for us all:Money is fungible. If you want a certain kind of money, you should earn whatever kind of money you can earn most efficiently and then buy the kind of money you want to hold with it.This is the idea behind the trend of "mining the most profitable asset, selling it, and using the proceeds to buy the most promising asset."So, we shouldn't create low-value make-work tasks for earning bitUSD. If the most profitable use of your time is shining shoes for Zimbabwe dollars, well, shine shoes for Zimbabwe dollars! Then quickly sell and buy bitUSD, bitGLD, bitBTC or BTSX.
I think because we are in the early stages we put perhaps too much emphasis on BitUSD "adoption" when we should put more emphasis on using BitUSD ourselves. In order to do that we need ways to set up smart contracts or other means so that we can easily pay developers in BitUSD.I think the future for BitUSD is bright but we have to use it before merchants will care about it. Bitcoin is slow to focus on payroll and paying wages because Bitcoin isn't good for that. BitUSD doesn't have to be slow at that because it's perfect for that.So instead of focusing on where we can spend BitUSD we should focus on allowing people to earn it through DACs somehow so that more of us have some through earnings. It doesn't make a lot of sense why people would take regular USD out of their bank and buy BitUSD but it does make sense that people would work for BitUSD and then start using it.I'm I am new to this space, never heard of Bitcoin before and I ask: "How can I earn some BitUSD?" what would I be told?
Quote from: bytemaster on October 15, 2014, 12:07:23 pmIt all has to do with holding period on bit usd. If I buy bit usd today and must wait 1 day to sell and btsx goes up 1% then I lose. Likewise if I buy btsx and hold for a day I lose. So spread is proportional to holding period and volatility. To have a tight peg we need usd to bitusd makers.Exactly - market-making isn't the risk-free proposition people seem to think it is. To make the market, I have to have a stash of BitUSD, and accept all the risks associated with that - mainly the risk that BTSX shoots up, which most people here believe will happen.
It all has to do with holding period on bit usd. If I buy bit usd today and must wait 1 day to sell and btsx goes up 1% then I lose. Likewise if I buy btsx and hold for a day I lose. So spread is proportional to holding period and volatility. To have a tight peg we need usd to bitusd makers.
I don't think they are reluctant, I think it has to do with the fact that there is low demand for bitUSD right now. It's easy to get in but not so easy to get out. I think the only solution is to create demand for bitUSD through merchant adoption. The best mm bots can do right now is create artificial volume.
"There isn't enough demand for bitUSD" as an explanation for insufficient liquidity would be a signal that the peg was already broken!You should think of it like, "are the shorts going to gamble even harder before they lock in their current losses?". Now with 30-day rotation on shorts it will be easy to see where the demand at anywhere below $1 comes from.I think not enough people are comfortable using the existing market-maker bots, probably for good reason. But anyone who buys bitUSD undervalued and keeps a sell wall at the price feed will make the spread * volume every month. As soon as people realize they can compete for this "free" money the spread should narrow significantly.
Quote from: Mysto on October 15, 2014, 12:07:51 amI don't think they are reluctant, I think it has to do with the fact that there is low demand for bitUSD right now. It's easy to get in but not so easy to get out. I think the only solution is to create demand for bitUSD through merchant adoption. The best mm bots can do right now is create artificial volume.Is it a catch-22 though? Low demand because there is low liquidity?
So far the only real users are those that are really bullish on BTSX so they are reluctant to go long bitUSD. The speculative appreciation of BTSX is far greater than the expected yield on bitUSD.When BTSX has its first big spike to $0.10 or $0.50 I think we'll see a lot of people selling some BTSX to take some profits and hedge a bubble.
Well, I'm reluctant because if I decided to play market maker and added a bunch of buy-side liquidity, I'd end up with a great big pile of bitUSD and nobody to sell it to. The fact that nobody is buying bitUSD near the peg is evidence that there isn't much money to be made playing market-maker.Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
In the Nubits thread, member Chronos points out the difference in current buy-side liquidity between Nubits and BitUSD, here:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9057.285;topicseen