Author Topic: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once  (Read 58477 times)

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Offline gamey

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #105 on: October 19, 2014, 08:12:18 am »
Being heavily involved in Bitshares (genuine fanboy) - I have noticed that new people often refer to Bitshares X as "Bitshares" and then I will play stupid to see their level of attention.  They rarely know better.

That leads me to believe that the cost of the confusion/noise created by Bitshares "X" and PTS/AGS is significant.

It truly is a mess and Bitshares X is a goofy name. Bitshares at least is simple and straight forward. 

Remember mass adoption.

Lets hope when BTSX has an unnatural drop, bytemaster moves rest of AGS.   IMO he should not sleep tonight. :)

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hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
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Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
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And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

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« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 08:14:48 am by gamey »
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Offline 520Bit

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #106 on: October 19, 2014, 08:12:40 am »
You should not care about the short term price, long term price is a win.

Sorry, but that is BS.

Also, if we go back down to 1 cent, it greatly hurts our long term, everyone will see BTSX as "that pump and dump that went up when they released bitUSD, and then went back down to where it started because it doesnt work"

I am happy if BTSX go back to 1 cent, everybody can get on the train fairly. Actually, 1 cent should be equal to 500 cent.

At the beginning, the total amount of BTS should be 4 million, right now it is 2 billion. So rules are made by people. Let's talk more here.

I like the change this time.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 08:21:15 am by 520Bit »
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Offline robust8

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #107 on: October 19, 2014, 08:13:16 am »
I just want to say: Oh! My god lady gaga……

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #108 on: October 19, 2014, 08:26:44 am »
I think this panic dumping is going to be the bottom of the current BTSX downtrend.
(But I'm not sure how much this panic dumping is going to take us down before we hit that bottom). 

I wish I had more to buy with right now, to try and catch the bottom of thisdump, but the sad thing is that I just bought a bunch earlier today.  One day too early :(
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Offline jckj

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #109 on: October 19, 2014, 08:35:32 am »
Cann't agree with those proposal.  Some other solution will be bter than these, in my opion. Something maybe could be  learned from  Ripple.Btsx can make a marketcap  such as $2,000,000,000 or 20,000,000,000( wich or waht will be bter should be decided base on 3i work's value , future's potentien and so on). just 1% could be exchanged untilde it reach about 2~10X of 1% of the marketcap , then next step.  when 100% btsx reach about or above  $2,000,000,000, 100% btsxs could be exchange. and for improve it's satabilty, btsx could invovle some banks in, and so on. Btsxer could imaging all btter solutions.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 10:10:37 am by jckj »

Offline 520Bit

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #110 on: October 19, 2014, 08:35:55 am »
@bytemaster,

To be clear, I want to know that changing BTSX from DPOS to POS is a part of your proposal or not?
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Offline Ander

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #111 on: October 19, 2014, 08:40:02 am »
@bytemaster,
To be clear, I want to know that changing BTSX from DPOS to POS is a part of your proposal or not?

No, he didnt say that.  And it would be very dumb, because DPoS is bitshares' innovation over PoS.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2014, 08:41:29 am »
@bytemaster,

To be clear, I want to know that changing BTSX from DPOS to POS is a part of your proposal or not?

Obviously not.  Was this ever suggested ?
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Offline 520Bit

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2014, 08:42:19 am »
@bytemaster,
To be clear, I want to know that changing BTSX from DPOS to POS is a part of your proposal or not?

No, he didnt say that.  And it would be very dumb, because DPoS is bitshares' innovation over PoS.

If this is true, I have no worry about that. Still need bytemaster's clarification.

But 101 delegates are centralized.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 08:44:06 am by 520Bit »
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Offline Cryptomaniac

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2014, 08:45:21 am »
I think this panic dumping is going to be the bottom of the current BTSX downtrend.
(But I'm not sure how much this panic dumping is going to take us down before we hit that bottom). 

I wish I had more to buy with right now, to try and catch the bottom of thisdump, but the sad thing is that I just bought a bunch earlier today.  One day too early :(
I'm waiting for the fudsters sold me even cheaper.
 ;)
Never give up! Never!!!

Offline D4vegee

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2014, 08:51:59 am »
A great opportunity here to buy more cheaper btsx. On another note (to the dumpers) are you stupid? This IS an almighty experiment is it not? And not even probably a third way through yet! Big mistake selling now.


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Offline graffenwalder

Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2014, 08:57:02 am »
I think this panic dumping is going to be the bottom of the current BTSX downtrend.
(But I'm not sure how much this panic dumping is going to take us down before we hit that bottom). 

I wish I had more to buy with right now, to try and catch the bottom of thisdump, but the sad thing is that I just bought a bunch earlier today.  One day too early :(
I'm waiting for the fudsters sold me even cheaper.
 ;)

Unbelievable all this talk about FUD.
The only form of FUD spread is by byte master, with remarks like vote would have more potential to the moon than BTSX.

Really some funds should be spend on a PR manager, this could have gone down a whole lot easier.
Now there is mass panic, because there are a couple of proposals without any definitive outcome.

Offline stuartcharles

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2014, 09:03:12 am »
一天一个想法,3I的诚信在哪里?规则就是规则,这样搞和原来的规则差别实在太大了!

I am happy to translate your words here:

Where is 3I's integrity, why change the rules so often? Rule is rule, current proposal is very different to previous one.

I agree, too much impatience. If you change the fundamentals now then you tell all investors that you may do it again in the future. This can only result in a calapse of confidence. I would urge the core developers to stem this quickly with a reassuring statement and pray you haven't already let the cat out of the bag

Offline Felix

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Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2014, 09:09:24 am »
here some of my opinions:

1:let ags/pts holders  have a quantity of  shares of all DACs is definitely a bad idea! It's more acceptable that AGS/PTS holders get the annual bonus of 3I company.

2: Btsx hard fork should be avoided as soon as possible. This idea is similar to financial QE! If it is unavoidable, the benefit of all original btsx shareholders should be well considered.

3: But in order to resolve the issues from ags/pts holders, we can do the btsx hard fork for only one time. Again, it must still consider the benefit of all original btsx shareholders. Maybe all three parts can share new shares in proportion. After that, ags/pts should disappear in 3I and only btsx shareholders still exist!

hope that these ideas help to remove equity issues in 3I! By the way, actually, I think that btsx shareholders should get a quantity of other DACs shares because other DACs take way of btsx techniques!

Offline JoeyD

Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2014, 09:10:06 am »
Just found this topic a minute ago and haven't had time to read all the pages yet, but here are my initial reactions, but I do reserve the right to be able to change my mind.

Do not use the forums as a means to find consensus, only use it to exchange arguments as a tool to formulate the final proposal.
Use or implement the voting mechanics on bitsharesX and use the network concensus mechanic to come to a consensus. Only people using the client and putting their money where their mouth is and actually use and support the network should have a say in votes like this for the bitsharesX part of the pie at least.

That way even if no consensus is reached, at least everybody with an opinion on this will actually use the network.

Is this a proposal made out of weakness, fear or feeling pressured by greedy people? If so then I suggest a weekend of separation from the internet and really think this through objectively and as rationally as possible. Decisions made in a panic or fearful state are rarely the right ones in the long run.

I am not in favor of a single monster of Frankenstein blockchain, that will do everything. To me that is the single biggest problem with bitcoin expanded by the fact that the user-owners of the network have no ability to vote. The opensource toolkit was the valuable concept to me, not the singular DACs that make use of it,  bitsharesX included.

I'm not concerned about the technical limits of  bandwidth or blockchainbloat, but I am concerned with the systemic/social problems that this imposes, and this is also why I am opposed to other single blockchain to rule them all solutions. Even on this forum it is clear that the bitsharesX crowd does not have the same interests as people interested in the other DACs, but in the proposed model they will be the ones with the majority vote on ALL decisions. That is a recipe for disaster. The separate DACs is the only way forward, because they need to live by their own rules and adapt not by the limitations and conflicting interests. Being small, light on your feet and flexible is only possible in smaller groups and at the very beginning. Once the network gets big and succesful, like all big companies they have become inflexible and in my eyes will collapse under their own weight or rot away from the inside, like for example is happening to Microsoft and Apple, both of whom I now see as past their prime and on their way down.

Also this completely passive attitude by socalled stake-holders and making themselves completely depended on bytemaster is a failure in creation of a self-sustaining decentralized  network. To be honest bytemaster should be working to leave bitsharesx and let it live on its own, maybe set a target for that as well and let it's community and the concept prove itself on it's own. I'm starting to feel a more forceful approach is needed to get people to understand what decentralized actually means. A lot of the comments come across as if people were thinking they bought Invictus shares and that they own Apple-style-stocks and through that own all things that anyone from Invictus touches. If that's the case then I suggest renaming all shares to Midas-shares or Invect-shares, if that is the model going forward.

Sorry if I sound a bit irritated, I admit I find myself getting more and more irritated by the mindset that by just sitting at the computer and clicking with your mouse entitles you to anything. (And that also means I am frustrated with myself as well). Don't get me wrong, I also think the Invictus team carries a lot of responsibility for creating the current culture of passivity by the community.

Involving the community and getting more people involved is what is lacking, not the monopoly on Bytemaster and his time.

For now I've run out of time, I'll try to come back later today and read the other pages of comments and hopefully list the rest of my points.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 09:18:04 am by JoeyD »