Author Topic: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)  (Read 14186 times)

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Offline amencon

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2014, 04:34:03 am »
I agree with your overall assessment alpha.

When investing I bought some AGS and some PTS.  The PTS was for the same purpose as AGS but with liquidity so I could get more into or out of certain DACs as they were announced.  Now that there aren't multiple DACs the value proposition for me in investing in PTS vs just parking it in AGS is gone.  Considering PTS gain no benefits over AGS and go into the same pool as BTSX why is it fair that AGS got 6x the stake in what is now the only DAC?  Like you said, AGS holders get the 6x BTSX boost AND free liquidity AND the 6x boost in stake for future DACs that spin off BTS.

At this point "fair" is long out the window anyway.  Hopefully PTS holders can reclaim some of the value they lost in all this, but I'm not holding my breath.  Glad I did split my investment up between the two now though and definitely feel bad for those that gave up BTSX for a liquid PTS that is now dead anyway.

Offline fuzzy

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2014, 04:52:22 am »
At this point "fair" is long out the window anyway.

 +5%

"fair" is pretty subjective.  I'd reckon the people who bought into Cannibascoin are probably feeling about the same way right now.
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Offline amencon

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2014, 05:10:25 am »
At this point "fair" is long out the window anyway.

 +5%

"fair" is pretty subjective.  I'd reckon the people who bought into Cannibascoin are probably feeling about the same way right now.
Very true.  Just because I invested my PTS for the reasons and in the manner I did, doesn't mean someone else didn't use that liquidity to time snapshots to perfection and made a bundle and greatly increased his stake up to this point.

There are too many variables to fully account for and at this point hopefully pain can be minimized on all sides.

Will be interesting to see what is eventually decided.

Offline alphaBar

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2014, 05:24:24 am »
"Fair" is certainly subjective, but I would argue that there is a floor and a ceiling on the acceptable range of subjectivity. Anything outside of those extreme boundaries I would label as "provably" unfair. For example, we know that AGS and PTS were promised at least 10% in future DACs. ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL it would make sense to grant them equal stake in the SuperDAC. But all else is not equal for the following reasons:

1) You have to discount AGS in order to compensate for "gifting" them with liquidity. The exact value of this discount is subjective, but I would argue that this value is objectively NON-ZERO.
2) Now we have BM proposing that the currently liquid PTS would actually be subject to a vesting period! Wow, this tips the scales even further. How much? I dunno, but again this is a NON-ZERO amount.

As a corollary I would argue that the liquidity discount from point #1 was actually decided by the market already. The AVG dollar-for-dollar difference in stake between AGS and PTS investment was due solely to the fact that AGS was "locked in" (illiquid). This premium paid by PTS investors is in fact the experimentally proven value of liquidity.

Offline fuzzy

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2014, 05:36:55 am »

1) You have to discount AGS in order to compensate for "gifting" them with liquidity. The exact value of this discount is subjective, but I would argue that this value is objectively NON-ZERO.
2) Now we have BM proposing that the currently liquid PTS would actually be subject to a vesting period! Wow, this tips the scales even further. How much? I dunno, but again this is a NON-ZERO amount.


See...now when you put it in these terms (instead of calling me names and attacking me personally) I can see where you are coming from.  And I (as a PTS Holder too!) agree. 

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Offline amencon

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2014, 05:39:37 am »
"Fair" is certainly subjective, but I would argue that there is a floor and a ceiling on the acceptable range of subjectivity. Anything outside of those extreme boundaries I would label as "provably" unfair. For example, we know that AGS and PTS were promised at least 10% in future DACs. ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL it would make sense to grant them equal stake in the SuperDAC. But all else is not equal for the following reasons:

1) You have to discount AGS in order to compensate for "gifting" them with liquidity. The exact value of this discount is subjective, but I would argue that this value is objectively NON-ZERO.
2) Now we have BM proposing that the currently liquid PTS would actually be subject to a vesting period! Wow, this tips the scales even further. How much? I dunno, but again this is a NON-ZERO amount.

As a corollary I would argue that the liquidity discount from point #1 was actually decided by the market already. The AVG dollar-for-dollar difference in stake between AGS and PTS investment was due solely to the fact that AGS was "locked in" (illiquid). This premium paid by PTS investors is in fact the experimentally proven value of liquidity.
Sounds sensible.  You have any plans of taking a crack at an allocation distribution layout?  I'm too lazy to crunch the numbers myself tonight or writing up any justifications for them, but I think you'd probably do a good job.

chryspano

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2014, 06:37:19 am »
I hold AGS PTS and BTSX, and what I can see is some poor excuses from people holding mostly pts to get a better deal, at least that's the feeling I get reading some posts.

I must remind to all those pts only, holders out there that the social consensus says to distribute an equal amount to both AGS and PTS holders from a new DAC, when the DAC is out both can liquidate the shares they got from this DAC. The only difference is that you can liquidate your pts at any point but you WILL NOT get any shares from future DACs.

As someone that holds both pts and ags (and btsx) I have a question for you.... why don't you ask/demand the obvious, to be able to liquidate your newly bts acquired from pts from day 1 and instead you are asking to get a better deal?

Do you really think the current deal is unfair to you or you are just greedy? I believe that the BM deal  is actually fair for everyone, or as close to fair as it can get.

BM has my vote.

Offline pvkpp

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2014, 08:47:49 am »
"PTS/DNS/VOTE three and BTSX, were I spend time and money to support the 3I company's products, but also are of equal status has been in circulation state property, dominates the 3I have what reason to lock the user property rights? 3I can lock the user to own property right to control, then who dare to buy 3I products?"

We do not oppose the merger, but against the PTS, AGS, DNS, Vote in the frozen period is too long
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 10:43:07 am by pvkpp »

Offline emski

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2014, 09:02:21 am »
I hold AGS PTS and BTSX, and what I can see is some poor excuses from people holding mostly pts to get a better deal, at least that's the feeling I get reading some posts.

I must remind to all those pts only, holders out there that the social consensus says to distribute an equal amount to both AGS and PTS holders from a new DAC, when the DAC is out both can liquidate the shares they got from this DAC. The only difference is that you can liquidate your pts at any point but you WILL NOT get any shares from future DACs.

As someone that holds both pts and ags (and btsx) I have a question for you.... why don't you ask/demand the obvious, to be able to liquidate your newly bts acquired from pts from day 1 and instead you are asking to get a better deal?

Do you really think the current deal is unfair to you or you are just greedy? I believe that the BM deal  is actually fair for everyone, or as close to fair as it can get.

BM has my vote.

The whining is about:
1st not about the better deal. Just about the promised deal.
2nd Liquidity is also something much discussed. It is an issue for DNS/PTS/VOTE and it is completely wrong IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 10:53:38 am by emski »

Offline pvkpp

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2014, 10:44:18 am »
We do not oppose the merger, but against the PTS, AGS, DNS, Vote in the frozen period is too long

chryspano

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2014, 11:02:26 am »
I can understand the worries about the duration of the frozen period(PTS, DNS, VOTE)
I believe in BM and if he proposed this deal I'm sure he has his reasons for the best.

Offline f_bull

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2014, 12:05:56 pm »
Fu--c-k  +5%

事实证明:BM是一头猪!

Offline xeroc

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2014, 12:17:03 pm »
Fu--c-k  +5%

事实证明:BM是一头猪!
That is hell of a contribution to the discussion .. would you take at least the same amount of time it took you to register your account and write something _valuable_!?

//edit: your lucky I am not a mod .. I wouldn't tolerate users like youposts like that
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Offline naschain

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2014, 12:35:38 pm »
bts game over!

Offline xeroc

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2014, 12:37:23 pm »
bts game over!
And you registered here to tell us this?! Was worth it .. for sure!
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