Author Topic: Proposed Allocation for Merger  (Read 43319 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2014, 05:40:49 pm »
Bytemaster, the 2-year vesting period is not good--it's too restrictive and will unnecessarily harm everyone by imposing more risk on people's portfolios. Also, AGS, PTS should get 10% each as they don't have a seat at the negotiating table.

Considering Vote + DNS are mostly AGS/PTS and the snapshot is relatively recent they get an effective ~10%

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Offline Shentist

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2014, 05:41:56 pm »
The long lockout period seems fair for AGS and even perhaps PTS, but I think the VOTE and DNS crowd were expecting liquidity sooner. Would it be too confusing to put the VOTE and DNS allocations on a shorter liquidity schedule, like perhaps 6 months?

I agree, DNS should have a shorter period.... perhaps 6 months.

disagree - why should be a lock up at all in DNS and PTS i can already sell and buy them and i totally regret to bought DNS on the exchange.

Offline biophil

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2014, 05:43:41 pm »
The above allocation grants this many BTS to each of the stakeholder DACs:

99 BTS per PTS
87.5 BTS per AGS
0.015 BTS per DNS (i.e.: sell now before your stake is worthless)
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Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2014, 05:45:07 pm »
A tip to anyone with PTS or DNS on exchanges (bt38 or bter):  Based on this proposed allocation, and prices right now (BTSX 6100 sat, PTS 6600 sat, DNS 200 sat), you should sell your PTS and DNS, and buy BTSX. 

I did this already.  You'll get slightly more shares in the new BTS if you do this fast before prices adjust.

Obviously, if DNS and PTS fall and BTSX rises, youll need to do some math to see if this is still the case.
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Offline feedthemcake

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2014, 05:46:36 pm »
Everyone should make sure they read the title post...

**Proposed**

Offline oco101

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2014, 05:47:46 pm »
Meh ...10% dilution , this is to much I'll go lower and hard forke latter if need it. If not I agree with the distribution, 2 year it is a bit to much though but that alright by me.

Please once the final decision is taken clearly announced what shareholder should do. I.E There a lot of unclaimed Btsx right now, should everybody claimed it before Novembre ?  How about the Founders the deadline was November 30 etc does this change anything ?

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2014, 05:49:54 pm »
I think that PTS and DNS should have no lockout period.  Right now, you can already sell them on the exchange.  It is unfair to lock out holders of these shares, who were already liquid at the time of the announcement.  Like, you can literally go dump them RIGHT NOW, and then not face a lockout.   (Note: I already dumped mine and bought BTSX with it, so this doesnt effect me.  But it effects others and I want to push for fairness).


I think the lockout period for AGS and VOTE shares should be 6 months.  2 years is an eternity. 
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Offline pariah99

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2014, 05:50:37 pm »
Does the 2 year vesting period include all of the currencies, or just the diluents? (i.e. everything or just AGS/PTS/DNS/VOTE)

Offline bytemaster

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2014, 05:51:01 pm »
A tip to anyone with PTS or DNS on exchanges (bt38 or bter):  Based on this proposed allocation, and prices right now (BTSX 6100 sat, PTS 6600 sat, DNS 200 sat), you should sell your PTS and DNS, and buy BTSX. 

I did this already.  You'll get slightly more shares in the new BTS if you do this fast before prices adjust.

Obviously, if DNS and PTS fall and BTSX rises, youll need to do some math to see if this is still the case.

Keep in mind that the "so-called" market cap on DNS and PTS is a very thin market and you are being moved to a much deeper market.  Someone looking to sell 1% of PTS would push down the price much further and thus get much less than the market cap suggests... moving them into BTSX and selling the same amount would move the price less.

It is complicated, and I don't think that anything is going to be fair to everyone. 
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sumantso

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2014, 05:51:09 pm »
In short - sell everything, buy BTSX.

Still trying to calculate if I am gaining or losing overall. If I had my PTS and DNS on exchange would've sold them now :-\

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2014, 05:52:27 pm »
Keep in mind that the "so-called" market cap on DNS and PTS is a very thin market and you are being moved to a much deeper market.  Someone looking to sell 1% of PTS would push down the price much further and thus get much less than the market cap suggests... moving them into BTSX and selling the same amount would move the price less.

It is complicated, and I don't think that anything is going to be fair to everyone.

Yes I agree that the percentages are fair.  I just think they shouldnt be subjected to a lockout, given that they are already liquid.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2014, 05:55:30 pm »
I'm not very happy about PTS not being liquid.  The vesting period needs to be a lot shorter.  PTS is getting screwed.  0

I'm not even sure marketing one big DAC is that great of an idea.  Metcalfe's or not.  We're a currency, but also DNS provider, but we do voting too !   Is this easier to market ?   How about using it?  I guess one blockchain with separate front ends ?   No one had to even mention PTS/AGS previously in marketing.  Now we have a million different things under 1 roof. 

I suppose it might be better because I don't particularly disagree with Metcalfe's/network effect but you guys better think real carefully before blindly following a law.  There is a real problem with technical people applying stuff like this and having utter faith in it but failing to see the limitations of men in some regard.

So are there going to be separate front ends ?

So how many steps have we taken backwards from a point of stability ? 

Adam Ernest now gets 1% of BTS because he did what ? 

This is sort of what I was worried about when I first read Dan's initial posting.
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Offline Frodo

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2014, 05:55:43 pm »
I think that PTS and DNS should have no lockout period.  Right now, you can already sell them on the exchange.  It is unfair to lock out holders of these shares, who were already liquid at the time of the announcement.  Like, you can literally go dump them RIGHT NOW, and then not face a lockout.   (Note: I already dumped mine and bought BTSX with it, so this doesnt effect me.  But it effects others and I want to push for fairness).


I think the lockout period for AGS and VOTE shares should be 6 months.  2 years is an eternity.

 +5% Please consider this.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2014, 05:56:39 pm »
The above allocation grants this many BTS to each of the stakeholder DACs:

99 BTS per PTS
87.5 BTS per AGS
0.015 BTS per DNS (i.e.: sell now before your stake is worthless)

7%*2.5Bil/1.648Mil  is ~ 106 per PTS

Questions: Vesting period is for who? PTS/AGS/DNS/VOTE? Or just PTS/AGS? Or... other?

Shentist also mentioned this - why the incredibly low valuation for DNS? Anybody who's smart should go sell all their DNS right now because if this proposal goes through, the price of DNS will crash by almost two-thirds, or much more than that if DNS is included in the vesting thing.

Edit: People can argue about the length of the vesting period; but like Ander said, 2 years is forever in crypto. A 2-year period will utterly crush the price of PTS because people can trade them for BTSX and get liquidity, and currently BTSX and PTS give equal amounts of BTS for the value. I'd expect a 50% drop in PTS price would be mild.

0.00006*106 ~ 0.00636
 so no 50% drop expected for PTS ,IMHO.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2014, 06:00:31 pm »
I think that PTS and DNS should have no lockout period.  Right now, you can already sell them on the exchange.  It is unfair to lock out holders of these shares, who were already liquid at the time of the announcement.  Like, you can literally go dump them RIGHT NOW, and then not face a lockout.   (Note: I already dumped mine and bought BTSX with it, so this doesnt effect me.  But it effects others and I want to push for fairness).


I think the lockout period for AGS and VOTE shares should be 6 months.  2 years is an eternity.

It is linear... and 2 years is based upon the roadmap for all future DACs in light of DACs that are already known with a development schedule.  AGS is going from "infinity" to gradually increasing liquidity so 2 years is an improvement for them.   VOTE doesn't event trade yet and has 30% allocated to Follow My Vote + a few others... the large stakeholders of VOTE (owning up to 45%+ of VOTE have agreed to this 2 year period because they are committed long-term.

When it comes to DNS it is "self funding" and can continue on its own and attempt to compete...  why should BTSX pay more when it could simply compete for less.  It is a very fair deal for DNS which is now facing much stronger competition. 

Get VOTE so we can get their team, network effect, and buy in... AGS holders in VOTE/DNS and final snapshot are the SAME...  PTS holders are almost the same...

PTS holders who want liquidity can sell now and get a better price than vesting and those who want a deal for volunteering for vesting can get a good deal on PTS.  The market will thus set PTS price accordingly.

And of course any 3rd parties are still welcome to allocate to PTS as they see fit.   
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