Author Topic: Proposed Allocation for Merger  (Read 43274 times)

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Offline toast

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #165 on: October 22, 2014, 12:46:16 am »
Stan, Bytemaster, somoene, can we get a clarification on the DNS allocation:

Bytemaster just stated that the 80% dev state was to be removed first.


Does this mean that actually there are only about 1 billion DNS shares which are going to be given the 3% stake in BTS, meaning that they should NOT have tanked 50% today? 

Or is the share count 5 billion, which means they should be around half what they currently are?

The share count will be ((5bn total - 1bn dev fund) + (?? paid backpay + ??delegate subsidy up to snapshot)).
So I'd say 4-4.1 bn but I will go finish paying everyone back and then make a better estimate.
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Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #166 on: October 22, 2014, 12:47:47 am »
I thought it was a priority to avoid a situation where an announcement gave someone an information advantage (meaning we were thinking only in terms of current % of market cap).

It doesn't matter anymore because the market has adjusted the price of all assets for this allocation. So any change after the OP would just be BM deciding which current asset holder (AGS, PTS, DNS, BTSX) gets more BTS... meaning this basically has to be the real allocation.

Except that DNS is still up in the air. 

If we interpret it one way, based on 5 billion shares of DNS in existence, then DNS should drop by 50% from current levels (which are alreayd way down).

If we interpret it another way (only the shares of DNS given by PTS/AGS count), then DNS should be much higher than it is now?


We still need clarity on this.
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Offline Rune

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #167 on: October 22, 2014, 12:48:25 am »
I thought it was a priority to avoid a situation where an announcement gave someone an information advantage (meaning we were thinking only in terms of current % of market cap).

It doesn't matter anymore because the market has adjusted the price of all assets for this allocation. So any change after the OP would just be BM deciding which current asset holder (AGS, PTS, DNS, BTSX) gets more BTS... meaning this basically has to be the real allocation.

BM is a genius programmer and visionary.... But maybe not the greatest when it comes to when and what to post publicly on the forum :P

These kind of situations will be avoided in the future when we have matured as a community, and as a DAC.

Offline toast

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #168 on: October 22, 2014, 12:49:11 am »
I thought it was a priority to avoid a situation where an announcement gave someone an information advantage (meaning we were thinking only in terms of current % of market cap).

It doesn't matter anymore because the market has adjusted the price of all assets for this allocation. So any change after the OP would just be BM deciding which current asset holder (AGS, PTS, DNS, BTSX) gets more BTS... meaning this basically has to be the real allocation.

Except that DNS is still up in the air. 

If we interpret it one way, based on 5 billion shares of DNS in existence, then DNS should drop by 50% from current levels (which are alreayd way down).

If we interpret it another way (only the shares of DNS given by PTS/AGS count), then DNS should be much higher than it is now?


We still need clarity on this.

It's the 4bn shares allocated to ags/pts and a little extra from delegates+backpay.
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Offline starspirit

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #169 on: October 22, 2014, 01:10:50 am »
This has made me confused about ownership rights in the DAC ecosystem. Why don't owners of DACs like VOTE and DNS get to vote on the merger proposal? Is it because the majority shareholders in the DACs have agreed to the proposal? I don't ask this because I'm against the proposal at all, I was just of the view previously that DACs had decentralised control.

Offline Stan

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #170 on: October 22, 2014, 01:25:40 am »
I thought it was a priority to avoid a situation where an announcement gave someone an information advantage (meaning we were thinking only in terms of current % of market cap).

It doesn't matter anymore because the market has adjusted the price of all assets for this allocation. So any change after the OP would just be BM deciding which current asset holder (AGS, PTS, DNS, BTSX) gets more BTS... meaning this basically has to be the real allocation.

BM is a genius programmer and visionary.... But maybe not the greatest when it comes to when and what to post publicly on the forum :P

These kind of situations will be avoided in the future when we have matured as a community, and as a DAC.

Yes.  Unfortunately.  But that will mean you have to wait longer to get information to effect your investment decisions until the story has been polished and vetted.  This will increase the knowledge gap between insiders and outsiders.  Right now that knowledge gap is measured in minutes...

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Offline Rune

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #171 on: October 22, 2014, 01:31:05 am »
I thought it was a priority to avoid a situation where an announcement gave someone an information advantage (meaning we were thinking only in terms of current % of market cap).

It doesn't matter anymore because the market has adjusted the price of all assets for this allocation. So any change after the OP would just be BM deciding which current asset holder (AGS, PTS, DNS, BTSX) gets more BTS... meaning this basically has to be the real allocation.

BM is a genius programmer and visionary.... But maybe not the greatest when it comes to when and what to post publicly on the forum :P

These kind of situations will be avoided in the future when we have matured as a community, and as a DAC.

Yes.  Unfortunately.  But that will mean you have to wait longer to get information to effect your investment decisions until the story has been polished and vetted.  This will increase the knowledge gap between insiders and outsiders.  Right now that knowledge gap is measured in minutes...

I'm not complaining, any small bumps we have now are completely irrelevant considering how insanely wealthy this will end up making us all. I don't think people complaining about percentages today will give a damn 12 months from now, they'll just be happy and proud that they were a part of bitshares before BTS even existed. Also, now that we have unified the DACs, I guess this kind of "conflict of interest" situation will never arise again, ever. Which is a huge advantage because then we can all just focus on working together.

Offline daidai

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #172 on: October 22, 2014, 01:37:08 am »
Your decision makes too many people lose money,lose confidence and leave.

I3 start from PTS and AGS,now the product come out,you know it's the time to kill them.

you develop the toolkit by AGS fund,and PTS shareholders help to disseminate the DACs to new people.

I don't think it's a fair allocation .

Offline Riverhead

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #173 on: October 22, 2014, 01:45:49 am »
Still unsure if it's 3% of 500M bts or 2.5B bts.

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Offline arhag

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #174 on: October 22, 2014, 01:51:01 am »
This has made me confused about ownership rights in the DAC ecosystem. Why don't owners of DACs like VOTE and DNS get to vote on the merger proposal? Is it because the majority shareholders in the DACs have agreed to the proposal? I don't ask this because I'm against the proposal at all, I was just of the view previously that DACs had decentralised control.

I would love to see this kind of functionality in the toolkit one day. That would allow actual mergers between DACs to be negotiated.

For now, it doesn't really matter. The DACs' network effect are so small (and their network effect differences even smaller) that nearly all of their value comes from whether they have allocated or are capable of allocating enough funds to attract the key talent that make these DACs valuable in the first place. The DAC that the key talent is attracted to is the DAC that will be capable of killing off the rest before they can get a fighting chance. (By the way this is why BTSX with its much larger market cap has so much leverage in this "merger" regardless of what any prior social consensus may say. At least assuming it is willing to allow dilution, which now the shareholders have come to their senses to accept.) So, the "merger" might as well be negotiated by this key talent directly, especially since otherwise it would take considerable effort and time to build the technology and tools to allow the various "shareholders" to have a proper quantifiable voice on this matter and the ability to deny merger proposals (potentially at the risk of being killed off by the larger competition). But I do want this technology to eventually exist for every DAC, for the sake of decentralization.

Also, I am once again okay with bytemaster's proposed allocations for the merger. Again, I don't really care too much about a couple percent here and there. I just can't wait until this chaos is all behind us and we can go back to being united towards a common vision.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 01:54:07 am by arhag »

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #175 on: October 22, 2014, 01:52:47 am »
Still unsure if it's 3% of 500M bts or 2.5B bts.

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3% of 2.5B bts.

(The other way, DNS would need to drop by more than 80% more which is clearly wrong).
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Offline KeyhoteeCN

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #176 on: October 22, 2014, 01:54:42 am »
2 years ? not fair!!!
DNS/VOTE 3%  ? not  fair !!!
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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #177 on: October 22, 2014, 02:02:29 am »
So, hodl DNS or get out while you can?

I'm so confused with this merger talk. If I hodl BTSX, does that mean I am basically benefiting from DNS (assuming this merger?) or do I have to continue holding DNS?


Offline Bitshark

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #178 on: October 22, 2014, 02:05:23 am »
as a layman my head is spinning circles :o

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #179 on: October 22, 2014, 02:12:55 am »
So, hodl DNS or get out while you can?

I'm so confused with this merger talk. If I hodl BTSX, does that mean I am basically benefiting from DNS (assuming this merger?) or do I have to continue holding DNS?

I have no idea.

When bytemaster posted that the dev stake in DNS would be removed, giving all the DNS holders more BTS, I bought 3.4 million shares at 14-150 sat.

And then Toast posted that there will eb about 4.1B DNS shares that will count towards the merger, I did the math I calculated that DNS should be worth about 120 satoshis, and I started selling the DNS again, and actually managed to sell all 3.4 million that I bought an hour earlier at a few percent profit.

BUT I could be totally off on my math, because its complicated and there are all these different exchange rates.  I'm comparing prices in yaun, to bitcoins, and multiplying by .03 and on and on...lol. 


I'm just going to sit in BTSX now, and not mess with it.  BTSX is safe. :)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:14:47 am by Ander »
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