Author Topic: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS  (Read 4004 times)

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Offline Shentist

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Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« on: October 22, 2014, 05:41:43 am »
i don't get it why nothing is discussed in this part of the forum?

Because everyone is happy?

Great that the main developer of this projects killed my DNS shares. Bad timing from me that i bought DNS on BTER.com as well, because all the discussions were only
merger with PTS and AGS. DNS was not once in the talk.

sorry Toast but you did your own community wrong. I understand it you are young and you relay on bytemaster, but sorry, this should be discussed on the forum. What said your investor where bought from the dev funds for 20.000 usd DNS? did he agree or did you guys compensate him exclusivly?

sry, i am just mad!

i assume, this was in the making a long time

"don't place DNS on coinmarketcap" makes now just more sense.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 05:54:09 am by Shentist »

Offline bobb

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 06:23:42 am »
I am (partly) with you. I was also heavily invested in the DNS/KeyID DAC. I just posted this:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10279.msg135338#msg135338

I also feel betrayed because I did not sell because toast explicitly announced that the invested funds with be preserved.
This DAC was so promising, so many features were to come up soon.
It just feels like someone pulled the emergency break to pick up DNS for a bargain.
 
People get emotional when they loose money but feelings aside. I don't see the arguments to backup this allocation.
I would love to hear toast's thoughts.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:06:24 am by bobb »

Offline bobb

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 06:35:34 am »
just a suggestion: You may want to give the thread a less offensive subject :)
We don't know what toast's position is. In the proposal thread it did not sound like this was his idea or that he already agreed to it.


Offline tonyk

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 06:40:50 am »
I do not get it... Really, I do not!

He tried to prevent the hype as much as he could! He did prevented DNS from being listed on Coinmarketcap... against all requests...

And at the end of the day he is still guilty because you bought DNS?

I mean really.  How can he can possibly have stopped you?

....


Now it was available for trading... and you bought it at some point... and now it is his fault....I just do not get it...I truly do not.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 06:47:37 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline bobb

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 06:57:23 am »
@tonyk. totally agree I am not blaming toast. Hence my suggestion to change the subject.

But toast assured that the invested funds will be preserved, so I guess it is a legit question to ask for his opinion, right?
But I agree the way how you do it matters :)

Just started a new thread to discuss this on 'neutral ground':
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10317.0
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:04:42 am by bobb »

Offline pc

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 07:50:40 am »

And at the end of the day he is still guilty because you bought DNS?

Obviously not. He's guilty because he just handed over KeyID to BitShares without even asking DNS shareholders. So every DNS investor can rightfully feel ripped off.

Just like PTS and AGS shareholders aren't even being asked about this so-called "merger". It's just stuffed down their throats and nobody cares if they want it or not.
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Offline tonyk

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 08:11:59 am »
@tonyk. totally agree I am not blaming toast. Hence my suggestion to change the subject.

But toast assured that the invested funds will be preserved, so I guess it is a legit question to ask for his opinion, right?
But I agree the way how you do it matters :)

Just started a new thread to discuss this on 'neutral ground':
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10317.0

And at the end of the day he is still guilty because you bought DNS?

Obviously not. He's guilty because he just handed over KeyID to BitShares without even asking DNS shareholders. So every DNS investor can rightfully feel ripped off.

Just like PTS and AGS shareholders aren't even being asked about this so-called "merger". It's just stuffed down their throats and nobody cares if they want it or not.

OK I see the point you both make.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 12:01:02 pm »
There is a HUGE open question right now on DNS. Bytemaster posted up that 80% of DNS (the developer's stake) would not be counted.

Depending on how that 80% is calculated the supply of DNS is anywhere from 1bn to 4bn. If it is the 1bn than this merger is a wash (300sat value). If it's the 4bn then BTS aquired DNS for 1/3rd current market value.

The case BM made for that is that there was only $10k in liquidity. However, what I feel was heavily factored into the market price of DNS at the time was a faith in Toast as thought leader in the space, the bitshares_toolkit as a whole, and the discussed feature set to come.

The other unkonw, but is BM's and to some extent perhaps toast's opinion, that selling at what BM considers True Market Value of DNS to BTS will net us more in the long run because the investment in BTS will surpass the investment made in DNS. Basically the bet is that in a year or so from now BTS will be so big that even at 1/3rd buy rate we, as investors, are still much further ahead.

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 12:17:56 pm »
toast,i will never believe your product anymore.
your team was a totally mess.

Offline bobb

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 12:24:37 pm »
The case BM made for that is that there was only $10k in liquidity. However, what I feel was heavily factored into the market price of DNS at the time was a faith in Toast as thought leader in the space, the bitshares_toolkit as a whole, and the discussed feature set to come.

Another problem I have with that argument is that with the proposal in the wild everyone was pulling their bids.
The liquidity established again at the new market price which was a result of the announcement.
So it is a slight stunt to first scare away the liquidity and than later start to argue there was none.

Look at the liquidity and volume at the new market price:
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=dns
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=dns
The volume on btc38 in the last 24h was about 600.000.000 DNS alone. Thats almost close to the volume of BTSX.


Offline GaltReport

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 12:25:27 pm »
I think Toast made the most of a difficult situation.  Same as BM and I3.  Probably Toast has more DNS and so is in the best position to decide whether it's better to say independent or not.  For sure, from what I can see, it's a hell of a lot of work to spearhead a DAC.  My guess is he probably looked at all options and paths and chose the best.  I guess he could have spent days polling everyone...or at least maybe communicated better...but in the end if he thinks it's best to merge, you have to respect that to a large degree given that he would have been the person everyone most depended on if it stayed independent.

As the song says, "You've go to know when to hold them...know when to fold them...".  Wishful thinking and blind promise keeping are not a substitute for sound reason.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 12:27:59 pm by GaltReport »

Offline toast

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 01:01:09 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

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Offline 029xue

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 01:44:36 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

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Can't agree you more!
+5%

Offline BTSdac

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 01:48:56 pm »
I have a lot of DNS,but I am merger , I don`t think it is destroying DNS, if toast and BM develop dns together,  I will make DNS become more powerful in new super DAC,
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

Offline xman

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 01:53:14 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

+1

Offline biophil

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 01:57:14 pm »
Toast, can you give us a quick take on what your ideal buyout would be?

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Offline davidpbrown

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 01:57:27 pm »
It seems obvious but perhaps worth stating, that it is hard to see that the change in DNS price is anything of a loss of faith in DNS but rather it is very much about anxiety of too much change and uncertainty. Once whatever is to happen is confirmed, I for one will be looking to buy DNS but it's too much confusion at the moment.

What they expected in the way it was presented, I do no know. There are too many elements of proposals all presented as one and should have been presented as individual points from the start.

Whether DNS is separate chain or asset on BTS chain doesn't matter.. all within BTS, seems odd to me - how will we have any sense the real value of DNS and KeyID? Are we to expect that other bigger egos will take all the credit for the value in BTS??
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Offline GaltReport

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 01:58:30 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Glad to hear that.  Sorry if the roll-out was not as smooth as it could have been.


Offline springlh

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2014, 02:19:53 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Toast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi....
now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 02:21:45 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Toast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi....
now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...

We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake.    DNS folks are still free to compete. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline springlh

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 02:30:52 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Toast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi....
now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...

We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake.    DNS folks are still free to compete.
You know what, actually I think this is a good... I think a simple DNS system is even better than a "all in one" DAC.... people who need DNS / Keyid doesn't necessarily be the user of X, Music and Vote....
In fact, I think if Toast can keep on working on the DNS / Keyid project ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 02:34:26 pm »
... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....
I wouldn't be so sure about that .. at least if you want to use the bitUSD, the bitCNY and all those other assets

then there is no reason to put money at a low liquid market in DNS if you can have an high liquid market at BTS(X)
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2014, 02:39:21 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Toast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi....
now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...

We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake.    DNS folks are still free to compete.
You know what, actually I think this is a good... I think a simple DNS system is even better than a "all in one" DAC.... people who need DNS / Keyid doesn't necessarily be the user of X, Music and Vote....
In fact, I think if Toast can keep on working on the DNS / Keyid project ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....

In fact I hope that DNS continues and offers competition.  That is fine with me.   BTS is just airdropping on DNS to gain support... however, I suppose DNSers could take their windfall and invest it in competition. 

I 100% approve of competition.

But not my loyalties are not divided...
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Offline Stan

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2014, 02:41:18 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Toast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi....
now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...

We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake.    DNS folks are still free to compete.
You know what, actually I think this is a good... I think a simple DNS system is even better than a "all in one" DAC.... people who need DNS / Keyid doesn't necessarily be the user of X, Music and Vote....
In fact, I think if Toast can keep on working on the DNS / Keyid project ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....

In fact I hope that DNS continues and offers competition.  That is fine with me.   BTS is just airdropping on DNS to gain support... however, I suppose DNSers could take their windfall and invest it in competition. 

I 100% approve of competition.

But not my loyalties are not divided...

I like people who look on the bright side.
Any value that didn't get properly imported to BTS is still out there in the DNS DAC.
Great way to view it!
 :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline GaltReport

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2014, 02:47:00 pm »
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Toast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi....
now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...

We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake.    DNS folks are still free to compete.
You know what, actually I think this is a good... I think a simple DNS system is even better than a "all in one" DAC.... people who need DNS / Keyid doesn't necessarily be the user of X, Music and Vote....
In fact, I think if Toast can keep on working on the DNS / Keyid project ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....

All you have to do now is convince Toast of that.

Offline Sharp116

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2014, 03:02:56 pm »
Toast,

Be a MAN!!


I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.

I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2014, 03:03:55 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

I hope Music doesn't do the same mistake...I had very high expectations for DNS and the 3% announcement just killed all my expectations. I had no intention to sell DNS below Namecoins Market cap..

Anyway, what is done is done. There is no coming back now. If you do change the allocation again and DNS decides to compete separately all confidence in the system will be lost for ever. If you change again policy when everything has been priced in now expect people to dump all their BTSX and never come back..

In the end of the day we are for the long run. The new BTS will get stronger now once we put all emotions and frustrations on the way and DNS is implemented on the new DAC.

Offline springlh

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2014, 03:11:17 pm »
... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....
I wouldn't be so sure about that .. at least if you want to use the bitUSD, the bitCNY and all those other assets

then there is no reason to put money at a low liquid market in DNS if you can have an high liquid market at BTS(X)

I understand, people have all kinds of different ideas and this is one of the reasons that make this world funny / less boring - I believe this is the word "diversity".

You're not sure about a simple DNS DAC would be more successful than a "all in one" DAC just like I am not so sure about the "all in one" DAC will be the only successful DAC in the world....
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2014, 03:15:03 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

I hope Music doesn't do the same mistake...I had very high expectations for DNS and the 3% announcement just killed all my expectations. I had no intention to sell DNS below Namecoins Market cap..

Anyway, what is done is done. There is no coming back now. If you do change the allocation again and DNS decides to compete separately all confidence in the system will be lost for ever. If you change again policy when everything has been priced in now expect people to dump all their BTSX and never come back..

In the end of the day we are for the long run. The new BTS will get stronger now once we put all emotions and frustrations on the way and DNS is implemented on the new DAC.

You still have your DNS... and Toast is still free to continue the project *AND* get share dropped. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Stan

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2014, 03:15:47 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.

 :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2014, 03:17:34 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.

 :)

Likewise, we still own all of our DNS as is verifiable by the blockchain.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline biophil

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2014, 03:19:22 pm »
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...

For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.

 :)

This is worth publicizing. There was no insider trading prior to the public announcement.

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Offline xeroc

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2014, 04:04:48 pm »
For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. 
I still have every last one of them.  I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.
Not that I have many .. but I did neither sell them to less-informed .. HODLing :)
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Offline sschechter

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2014, 07:03:35 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline toast

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2014, 07:16:48 pm »
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2014, 07:17:15 pm »
I think we have made all DNS holders whole except those who held their DNS on an exchange.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline sschechter

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2014, 07:32:03 pm »
 +5%
I think we have made all DNS holders whole except those who held their DNS on an exchange.
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2014, 07:37:58 pm »
Quote
To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

You must be referring to me so to answer your question, I wouldn't have sold a single DNS until at least we beat Namecoin no matter how long this would have taken... 1month - 1yr - 2yrs...Completely irrelevant. I base all my investments based on the speed of development and economic fundamentals. That is the reason I am not and will not sell a single BTSX before we reach the 1 billion market cap at least, no matter how long it takes...1yr - 5yrs... And if we don't reach that cap well I will probably lose my investment.

That post although fully on board with DNS getting on BTS, just gave me the impression that DNS just didn't have any value anymore..


Offline sschechter

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2014, 07:45:08 pm »
Quote
To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

You must be referring to me so to answer your question, I wouldn't have sold a single DNS until at least we beat Namecoin no matter how long this would have taken... 1month - 1yr - 2yrs...Completely irrelevant. I base all my investments based on the speed of development and economic fundamentals. That is the reason I am not and will not sell a single BTSX before we reach the 1 billion market cap at least, no matter how long it takes...1yr - 5yrs... And if we don't reach that cap well I will probably lose my investment.

That post although fully on board with DNS getting on BTS, just gave me the impression that DNS just didn't have any value anymore..

I hate seeing Red too.  I'm glad we're on the same page when it comes to the future of BitShares.  In the long run, this will strengthen the system.
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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2014, 01:37:03 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

+5%

That's the meat of it right there.  There are a couple things to keep in mind regarding all of this "merger" business. 

One is that it involves a certain number of "rich" or "powerful" people whose support I3 needs.  All the proposals are designed to placate these people first.  Small players have no power, and so have little say in the merger.

Two is that buying DNS on an exchange was a pure gamble.  In the interest of your long term trading success, It would have been better to get burned and learn the lesson, than to expect to be made whole when you speculate and lose. ( I lost some too :-/)

Three  I3 giving their 10% in DNS to the traders was a pr move to buy goodwill from the community, showcase their integrity, and their lack of inside trading.  They would've had to do this, and likely will have to do more to get the fishy smell off of them.  They have shaken people's confidence and the integrity of their word with this change of plans.  The reality is that although this "merger" is probably an inprovement, I3 still broke promises to it's supporters, It sold a bill of goods that was not delivered.

Fourth  these company f*ckups highlight some of the recurring problems with I3.  Broken promises is one.  Remember keyhotee?  Lack of communication.  It can be really hard to find the relevant information/ press releases etc.  Unnecessary complication.  It feels sometimes like complexity is being showcased, not hidden.  If DACs are going to be mainstream and loved there, people can't be privy to even a hint of confusion.  There must be a zen-like ease of usage, people want cognitive ease and security above all else.

The tech is great, but pure tech is not enough. Pure talent is not enough. (The same way that many great bands never get famous.) These weaknesses have to be addressed and soon.  The bitshares brand needs to be so smooth and simple that it slips into people's minds with no resistance. People want a way out of the banks, but if they cannot be sold on it in 5 seconds or less, most won't.

Offline inarizushi

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2014, 04:13:16 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

+5%

That's the meat of it right there.  There are a couple things to keep in mind regarding all of this "merger" business. 

One is that it involves a certain number of "rich" or "powerful" people whose support I3 needs.  All the proposals are designed to placate these people first.  Small players have no power, and so have little say in the merger.

Two is that buying DNS on an exchange was a pure gamble.  In the interest of your long term trading success, It would have been better to get burned and learn the lesson, than to expect to be made whole when you speculate and lose. ( I lost some too :-/)

Three  I3 giving their 10% in DNS to the traders was a pr move to buy goodwill from the community, showcase their integrity, and their lack of inside trading.  They would've had to do this, and likely will have to do more to get the fishy smell off of them.  They have shaken people's confidence and the integrity of their word with this change of plans.  The reality is that although this "merger" is probably an inprovement, I3 still broke promises to it's supporters, It sold a bill of goods that was not delivered.

Fourth  these company f*ckups highlight some of the recurring problems with I3.  Broken promises is one.  Remember keyhotee?  Lack of communication.  It can be really hard to find the relevant information/ press releases etc.  Unnecessary complication.  It feels sometimes like complexity is being showcased, not hidden.  If DACs are going to be mainstream and loved there, people can't be privy to even a hint of confusion.  There must be a zen-like ease of usage, people want cognitive ease and security above all else.

The tech is great, but pure tech is not enough. Pure talent is not enough. (The same way that many great bands never get famous.) These weaknesses have to be addressed and soon.  The bitshares brand needs to be so smooth and simple that it slips into people's minds with no resistance. People want a way out of the banks, but if they cannot be sold on it in 5 seconds or less, most won't.

Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.

bitUSD will be a no brainer and easy to market. Many simple products can run on BTS without the user knowing what happens beside. The tech is the single most important thing for long term growth.
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Offline toast

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2014, 04:23:59 pm »
Folks, lets be honest here.  Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?

To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision.  Sucks for you, don't do that again.  Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).

To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting?  As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas.   There is no product.

And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features?  Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?

Placing value on ideas is a risky business.  You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose.  Investor life lesson number 2.

What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute.

Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS.  I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.

The point of launching as a proto-DAC without features was to hire more developers without asking I3 for money. That part worked - dbrock, derrick, and greg (and later drltc) were all able to work in parallel and make progress I couldn't have made by myself.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline pc

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2014, 04:49:59 pm »
Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.

That attitude sucks. The aims do not justify the means.

If you break promises it means you can't be trusted. And trust is what cryptocurrencies are about.

Btw, there is no proof that the product would have failed without breaking promises. Actually, a couple of days ago everyone was quite happy with the products.
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Offline inarizushi

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Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2014, 05:04:59 pm »
Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.

That attitude sucks. The aims do not justify the means.

If you break promises it means you can't be trusted. And trust is what cryptocurrencies are about.

Btw, there is no proof that the product would have failed without breaking promises. Actually, a couple of days ago everyone was quite happy with the products.

First, it's arguable that promises haven't been broken. I won't argue here, the forum is full of posts. Personally, I believe that probably the promises have been broken, but I'm happy with that. But there are some good arguments out there that the promises have not been broken.

Second, we should trust BM not on his promises, but on his justifications and arguments. The promises weren't a contract. He has to evolve and change his mind, so he can't make unbreakable promises. His arguments, however, are extremely clear and sound. You may not have let them sink, and you may not accept them, but once you accept them, you can only accept the merger. He was in a position in which it was a logical impossibility to hold the different promises he had made : without the merger, he would have had to compete against himself. Moreover, he realized that anybody can fork the whole thing and outcompete BTSX, and that in the cryptoworld, the winner/best technology takes all.
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2014, 01:34:49 am »
Actually I would venture to say trust is exactly what it isn't about. Trustless is nearly the whole point.

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