Perspective is Everything

[xeroc]

You even capitalized LOOSE, as if you were indicating that you knew that was misspelled but you were following the meme.

makes it even funnier ..

[Ander]

lol .. thanks @ arhag for pointing it out .. I meant to write lose ..

joke not intended

You even capitalized LOOSE, as if you were indicating that you knew that was misspelled but you were following the meme.

[amencon]

lol .. thanks @ arhag for pointing it out .. I meant to write lose ..

joke not intended

Ah sorry, it became a sort of meme on the speculation board on bitcointalk due to someone constantly spamming doom and gloom threads always spelling it that way.  Similar to the "hodl" meme.

[xeroc]

lol .. thanks @ arhag for pointing it out .. I meant to write lose ..

joke not intended

[arhag]

I'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some.  Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.

I'm sorry .. I should have stated that somewhere: I am super naive and my wife keeps telling me so on a regular basis ..

Disclaimer: I am in for the fun .. and to see a system grow that I think is superior to anything mankind has seen yet .. and I would never advise for or against any investment .. that's up to everybody else to decide .. but if you do .. my second sentence ALWAYS states: don't invest more than you are willing to LOOSE!

Haha, I'm a little bit sad I get that joke...

Is this some kind of inside joke that I am not aware of? I see so many people on this forum incorrectly using loose instead of lose, and I have always chalked it up to the possibility that English is their second language. But now I am starting to wonder whether it is actually intentional?

[amencon]

I'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some.  Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.

I'm sorry .. I should have stated that somewhere: I am super naive and my wife keeps telling me so on a regular basis ..

Disclaimer: I am in for the fun .. and to see a system grow that I think is superior to anything mankind has seen yet .. and I would never advise for or against any investment .. that's up to everybody else to decide .. but if you do .. my second sentence ALWAYS states: don't invest more than you are willing to LOOSE!

Haha, I'm a little bit sad I get that joke...

I agree that today is definitely an exciting time to be a technology enthusiast.

[xeroc]

I'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some.  Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.

I'm sorry .. I should have stated that somewhere: I am super naive and my wife keeps telling me so on a regular basis ..

Disclaimer: I am in for the fun .. and to see a system grow that I think is superior to anything mankind has seen yet .. and I would never advise for or against any investment .. that's up to everybody else to decide .. but if you do .. my second sentence ALWAYS states: don't invest more than you are willing to LOOSE!

[amencon]

Just because some methods worked well the last 20 years does not imply they will work well today ..

If you see how many people lost their saving these few days for something that should be handled better,you wouldn't dare to say your way of thinking "works well". It's not even started yet,once word got out "every dirt of Bitshares can easily find it on the forum",major investor would be scared away.

keep in mind,share price\market depth,is the key to hold the BitUSD peg.
Without that, BitUSD would have no liquidity.

And those ordinary folks who trusted the "risk less than bitcoin" to buy into BitUSD,would've lost their money
because of low liquidity in a black swan event that cause the share price to drop rapidly just because of you "like the way" and disregard for image.

You may not have to care about the BTSX price,but you sure should care about how that would affect the BitUSD peg and the future of Bitshares .

To suit your need for "open and active communication on the forum" for 200 or less people,you're essentially putting hundreds of  thousands of people's right at risk, not to mention the future of this business.

You need to think bigger,pinky.....

I agree with that ..
it seems we talked past each other

My issue is,
a) I like BM openly discussing his thoughts in open PROPOSALS
b) I dislike people trading on yet to be finalized proposals and afterwards complaining about their loss - that is in NO WAY the devs fault!
c) I do like open discussions about how to make the future brighter .. call me naive

IMHO this is tough territory .. that's what early investors have to face ..
and that's why they might profit the most from it ..

IMHO we should take these huge steps to improve the system RIGHT NOW .. (read: "as early as possible") ...

Disclaimer: for me .. all of this is a hobby and I am mostly fascinated about the tech .. again .. call me naive .. I know I am ..
further more .. I haven't but serious money in this .. mainly because my wife is not as "brave" (read "stupid" or "naive") .. as I am ..
.. people fearing for their existence due to the recent price drop shouldn't have invested that much in the first place ..

maybe I am talking BS above .. because I am a tech guy, not an investor .. nor an economist ..

I'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some.  Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.

[xeroc]

... perspective is everything.   

hehe .. fully agree here!   

[Tuck Fheman]

Seems your trading strategy is flawed ...

That's not my strategy, I'm just having fun w/words ... perspective is everything.   

[xeroc]

Seems your trading strategy is flawed ...

[Tuck Fheman]

b) I dislike people trading on yet to be finalized proposals and afterwards complaining about their loss - that is in NO WAY the devs fault!

Buy the rumor, sell the dev (down the river). 

[BitshatKing]

Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case.  The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. 

So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair".   

Now back to work on making BTS great. 

YES!

BTSX will overtake all coins!  STAN U IS GREAT MAN!  THANK YOU!

What is "fair"?  What is "truth"?  All perspective!!!

[ripplexiaoshan]

Well said, we hope 3I will focus more on products developing and marketing, instead of fighting with those objectors. Anyway, price of BTSX tells everything.

[xeroc]

Openness does not contradict discretion.Just need to do better to achieve both.

I want to go the the bathroom to take a dump......
I tell you , "I want to take a dump",that's openness .
I tell you , "I have a thing to do,talk to you later" , that's discretion.
I tell you , "I need to use the bathroom" , that's both openness and discretion .

Openness is not Post and Repost.....That's way too simplified.

And as Bytemaster and stan have learned in the past year,a post without carefully thinking may even land themselves into potential legal trouble. They have a kiss ass legal team to sensor their word before other people,but they can't monitor every post to give legal advice.One wrong word , it changes everything.
That's not a over statement.

Agreed .. they should definitely be more careful with proposals of these kind ..

I'd just like to see the community continue as open as possible ... but from my understanding this will not be an issue a year from now with hard forks required to be VOTE in ..

Anyway .. thanks for the nice chat .. I learned something today!

[Riverhead]

No one should have lost their savings. If they did it's not BM's fault. Speculating on an emerging crypto technology, one that isn't even released yet (DNS had no features implemented), is risky at best. Putting all your savings into it is akin to putting it all on red.

Anyone that had their savings in a more mature product like bitUSD is fine.

[xeroc]

Just because some methods worked well the last 20 years does not imply they will work well today ..

If you see how many people lost their saving these few days for something that should be handled better,you wouldn't dare to say your way of thinking "works well". It's not even started yet,once word got out "every dirt of Bitshares can easily find it on the forum",major investor would be scared away.

keep in mind,share price\market depth,is the key to hold the BitUSD peg.
Without that, BitUSD would have no liquidity.

And those ordinary folks who trusted the "risk less than bitcoin" to buy into BitUSD,would've lost their money
because of low liquidity in a black swan event that cause the share price to drop rapidly just because of you "like the way" and disregard for image.

You may not have to care about the BTSX price,but you sure should care about how that would affect the BitUSD peg and the future of Bitshares .

To suit your need for "open and active communication on the forum" for 200 or less people,you're essentially putting hundreds of  thousands of people's right at risk, not to mention the future of this business.

You need to think bigger,pinky.....

I agree with that ..
it seems we talked past each other

My issue is,
a) I like BM openly discussing his thoughts in open PROPOSALS
b) I dislike people trading on yet to be finalized proposals and afterwards complaining about their loss - that is in NO WAY the devs fault!
c) I do like open discussions about how to make the future brighter .. call me naive

IMHO this is tough territory .. that's what early investors have to face ..
and that's why they might profit the most from it ..

IMHO we should take these huge steps to improve the system RIGHT NOW .. (read: "as early as possible") ...

Disclaimer: for me .. all of this is a hobby and I am mostly fascinated about the tech .. again .. call me naive .. I know I am ..
further more .. I haven't but serious money in this .. mainly because my wife is not as "brave" (read "stupid" or "naive") .. as I am ..
.. people fearing for their existence due to the recent price drop shouldn't have invested that much in the first place ..

maybe I am talking BS above .. because I am a tech guy, not an investor .. nor an economist ..

[cass]

Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case.  The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. 

So here is a perspective for your consideration.

BTSX, VOTE, DNS, AGS, and PTS are all separate groups of people each of which wants something from *me* whether I owe them anything or not.    They all want me to do, say, or build something that makes them money.  Now the reality is that my goal is to build the best toolkit and keep pushing things forward on that front.  People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things.   Other people took my work on the toolkit and turned it into BTSX.   I gave grants to DNS & Play.   Everyone else is an independent group of people speculating on an asset that they know is not a security, has no legally binding promises, and is a hope.

All of these groups represents a "team" or "tribe" that wants me to play for them and no one wants me to play "against them" in the competitive free market.   

So the first team that made a bid for my attention was VOTE.... vote offered me and everyone on our team a large stake along with PTS / AGS... but offered BTSX nothing.   This was a fair and legitimate way for me to go... after delivering on BTSX core features and spending funds donated prior to BTSX snapshot.   But it would have made team BTSX very upset at losing their key players for long term growth even though plans were in place to allow BTSX to steal all of the work paid for by team VOTE for free. 

So the next thing I did is propose a bid for my attention that would bring everyone under one roof.  Who's call is it?  Mine.  Do I get to be arbitrary? Yes because I get to chose which project I work on.  So it comes down to me negotiating with BTSX on the terms of the deal.   I effectively ask BTSX to share drop on the competition as a means of motivating but not requiring them to join us. 

So team BTSX got my attention and every other team got something out of the deal.   DNS + VOTE could still exist and could still compete.  We didn't actually *buy* their stake, we just honored it with no strings attached.  Did they get a "fair price"... well, a gift is certainly fair.   

Now DNS is faced with a challenge on how to develop, grow, and hire talent.  They are free to form a team, hire developers, and make a go.  Nothing has been taken from them except their project lead has handed it off.   They are free to plunder all the work we do on BTS and thus have much cheaper development cost... so all DNS must pay for is marketing.   

If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.

So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair".   

Now back to work on making BTS great. 

 

 

well said ... 

[xeroc]

Just because some methods worked well the last 20 years does not imply they will work well today ..

[xeroc]

Just my 2 cents, but I just LOVE how BM shares his thoughts. I don't give a damn about "professionals". Following advices on this forum, I have read the book "zero to one", loved it, and I now definitively see bytemaster as one of those guys that has the guts to change the world, to impose his vision. His candid "PR naivety" is not a default : it is what make people loyal to him, it is what gives me more and more confidence in BTSX the more I learn about it and the more I get to know our leading team through this forum.

"Professionals" follow the rules that worked before, the rules of the past. Here, the future is being built, the rules of the past may not apply. The cryptoworld is such that we probably don't have time to reach a better consensus. How many great leaders didn't give a damn and just moved on towards their vision ? It seems to me that the Jobs, Zuckerberg and Musk's of this world don't really care about PR.
When Elon Musk admits Tesla is overvalued : http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/25/investing/tesla-netflix-momentum-stocks/, how cool is that ?

I'm now all in in bitshares, thank you for sharing all your thoughts BM, that way we really feel like we're part of the adventure.

couldn't agree more 

[gamey]

Would it be prudent to ask that any developers who are paid by the capital infusion funds sign non-compete agreements, so that if they walk away at some point in the future they are not doing so to set-up a direct competitor of bitshares?

A DAC is not a legal entity. It would be impossible to enforce such an agreement.

There right here points to a potential problem and that is having too many managers.  ROFL.  Transparent! Transparent!  When did the dev last take a dump?  We need to know.  Not me personally, understand, but one of your 10000 managers would like to request that you log such things.  No no not that sort of log, but a dump of your computer's RAM.  yap yap yap.  <gun to temple>

[oco101]

Do folks really want to model DACs on traditional corporate paradigms?

Take BM and the key devs up into the ivory tower and have all correspondence vetted and neutered by the PR police to ensure the share price is not inconvenienced?

The whole point of DACs is to implement a public and transparent business model with direct and unencumbered lines of communication to shareholders.

BM saw an opportunity and presented it to the community.

Funny how folks love to knock big bank/corp/gov but push to recreate the same systems they deride.

Freedom and security do not run together.

Respect to BM for his candour and courage.

Maybe you haven't notice,every time BM does something that's not in the basic principal of a DAC (total decentralization),he and stan claim that

"that's what a traditional company would do" 
"merge,that's what a traditional company does"   
"This is not a crypto currency,this is a company,we do what company does" 
"the social consensus is not a suicide pack"

That's alright,for the sake of the future of the Bitshares enterprise,I concur every major decision Bymemaster does.

But that does not change the fact that this is still a enterprise,not some dream of the libertarians.-----If you want libertarians's DAC , go to the ones who don't not care about their shareholder's price,just like .....  ....  ....  ..   you name it ,the ones who watch their share price shrink 90% and still do nothing aggressive to change that.

Just like bytemaster said, Perspective is Everything.Forum has only 200+ people behind it ,there are more shareholders and supports out there ,as well as enemies. If bytemaster were to entertain a few people on the forum instead of making right business decisions for the very best interest of his shareholders , I would've go to the PPC community.(That's a happy family,even the price of their DAC shrink 90%,they're still very happy,dancing with Sunny King,and Sunny King was very happy too,he does all kinds of little useful software for the people,and still not concern with the Price )

Bytemaster is an entrepreneur, not just a developer.

One wrong move,the future of this enterprise would be in deep trouble.

Had NXT at least pretended a fair distribution model other than 71 people,they would have been popular  , Bitshares would not have been grabbing the heart of the people by "fair distribution" so easily. Every time people wants to buy NXT , there are always a lot more people out there reminding him that "NXT only enrich 71 people".Although I think now the distribution of NXT has become more fair than before,but still,the
"71 big stick" is a worst nightmare for their image.

You don't need to believe me. I've watched startups fallen , I've watched major business failed .

I'm a libertarian myself,I've never wore a suit.I like T-shirts. But that kind of decision only threatens what I look on formal events.
This is a business,one wrong move,there are thousands of people lives ruined. I haven't even count in the "depositor" that would deposit their money into BitUSD on this equation.

That why I'm supporting this merger event if I don't agree with everything and I'm not talking about the distribution.... I know this is the best move right now.

[hpenvy]

If you want to discuss,we can hold mumble,off the record,brain storm,whatever with Bytemaster regularly.
But the forum,every major competitors is trying to dig dirt in it.Once they dig it,they would be having a field day.

I really appreciated the mumble sessions that Bytemaster recently attended. I agree, there's better ways we can brainstorm with BM and not give our competitors ammo.  We have so many challenges ahead, why make their lives any easier?

[edilliam]

Could we create a part of the forum specifically for thinking aloud and tossing ideas around. It could be made clear that anything that occurs inside it is purely for crazy ideas, proposals, idea generation and gathering feedback from the community and not to be taken at all seriously. That way we still get to hear BM & team's brilliant ideas as they are forming, but the community can't accuse the main devs of mishandling of information and bad PR. I think we as a community only stand to loose if we become less transparent and I fear this will be the result of what has occurred in the past few days.

[Thom]

I concur. I suspect BM will take this all in as a learning experience and perhaps pause a few more uSeconds before his visionary flash is put before the public. He will become wiser through this experience, but I do indeed hope he doesn't over compensate and withdraw significantly from participating in this forum.

[Tuck Fheman]

Just my 2 cents, but I just LOVE how BM shares his thoughts. I don't give a damn about "professionals". Following advices on this forum, I have read the book "zero to one", loved it, and I now definitively see bytemaster as one of those guys that has the guts to change the world, to impose his vision. His candid "PR naivety" is not a default : it is what make people loyal to him, it is what gives me more and more confidence in BTSX the more I learn about it and the more I get to know our leading team through this forum.

 

[ALAN---]

 
Here we go for a better future, 500 dollor, so easy. To tell you the truth, I was afraid that you were pissed off by the share of PTS, AGS and other holders. It seems that I worried about too much. Just do it....

[alt]

 
Always support you , BM and Toast, move on!

[tonyk]

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

-5%

Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR...  we haven't identified the balance... but I hope to remain accessible and transparent because that is what people expect.

I for one will be more than disappointed if change this part of you....

[Myshadow]

Do folks really want to model DACs on traditional corporate paradigms?

Take BM and the key devs up into the ivory tower and have all correspondence vetted and neutered by the PR police to ensure the share price is not inconvenienced?

The whole point of DACs is to implement a public and transparent business model with direct and unencumbered lines of communication to shareholders.

BM saw an opportunity and presented it to the community.

Funny how folks love to knock big bank/corp/gov but push to recreate the same systems they deride.

Freedom and security do not run together.

Respect to BM for his candour and courage.

Whole heartedly agree.

[inarizushi]

Just my 2 cents, but I just LOVE how BM shares his thoughts. I don't give a damn about "professionals". Following advices on this forum, I have read the book "zero to one", loved it, and I now definitively see bytemaster as one of those guys that has the guts to change the world, to impose his vision. His candid "PR naivety" is not a default : it is what make people loyal to him, it is what gives me more and more confidence in BTSX the more I learn about it and the more I get to know our leading team through this forum.

"Professionals" follow the rules that worked before, the rules of the past. Here, the future is being built, the rules of the past may not apply. The cryptoworld is such that we probably don't have time to reach a better consensus. How many great leaders didn't give a damn and just moved on towards their vision ? It seems to me that the Jobs, Zuckerberg and Musk's of this world don't really care about PR.
When Elon Musk admits Tesla is overvalued : http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/25/investing/tesla-netflix-momentum-stocks/, how cool is that ?

I'm now all in in bitshares, thank you for sharing all your thoughts BM, that way we really feel like we're part of the adventure.

[oldman]

Do folks really want to model DACs on traditional corporate paradigms?

Take BM and the key devs up into the ivory tower and have all correspondence vetted and neutered by the PR police to ensure the share price is not inconvenienced?

The whole point of DACs is to implement a public and transparent business model with direct and unencumbered lines of communication to shareholders.

BM saw an opportunity and presented it to the community.

Funny how folks love to knock big bank/corp/gov but push to recreate the same systems they deride.

Freedom and security do not run together.

Respect to BM for his candour and courage.

[edilliam]

that avalanche goes the wrong direction
you need to take you monitor and flip it up-side-down ... then all's right again

[xeroc]

that avalanche goes the wrong direction
you need to take you monitor and flip it up-side-down ... then all's right again

[liondani]

I'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.

I AM a tad unrealistic!  As I see it, $0.25 will be a good start. But then, I think that if/when BitShares gets that much notice, it should gain some critical mass. This is SO MUCH more useful than Bitcoin. If it's hovering at that market cap, it's going to get a ton more attention. If we reach 10x, then I honestly see this getting a lot bigger.

[xeroc]

@luckybit: thanks for the post .. learn something new every day ..

[santaclause102]

If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.

what does this mean? could you expand on this?

[luckybit]

Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case.  The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. 

So here is a perspective for your consideration.

BTSX, VOTE, DNS, AGS, and PTS are all separate groups of people each of which wants something from *me* whether I owe them anything or not.    They all want me to do, say, or build something that makes them money.  Now the reality is that my goal is to build the best toolkit and keep pushing things forward on that front.  People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things.   Other people took my work on the toolkit and turned it into BTSX.   I gave grants to DNS & Play.   Everyone else is an independent group of people speculating on an asset that they know is not a security, has no legally binding promises, and is a hope.

All of these groups represents a "team" or "tribe" that wants me to play for them and no one wants me to play "against them" in the competitive free market.   

So the first team that made a bid for my attention was VOTE.... vote offered me and everyone on our team a large stake along with PTS / AGS... but offered BTSX nothing.   This was a fair and legitimate way for me to go... after delivering on BTSX core features and spending funds donated prior to BTSX snapshot.   But it would have made team BTSX very upset at losing their key players for long term growth even though plans were in place to allow BTSX to steal all of the work paid for by team VOTE for free. 

So the next thing I did is propose a bid for my attention that would bring everyone under one roof.  Who's call is it?  Mine.  Do I get to be arbitrary? Yes because I get to chose which project I work on.  So it comes down to me negotiating with BTSX on the terms of the deal.   I effectively ask BTSX to share drop on the competition as a means of motivating but not requiring them to join us. 

So team BTSX got my attention and every other team got something out of the deal.   DNS + VOTE could still exist and could still compete.  We didn't actually *buy* their stake, we just honored it with no strings attached.  Did they get a "fair price"... well, a gift is certainly fair.   

Now DNS is faced with a challenge on how to develop, grow, and hire talent.  They are free to form a team, hire developers, and make a go.  Nothing has been taken from them except their project lead has handed it off.   They are free to plunder all the work we do on BTS and thus have much cheaper development cost... so all DNS must pay for is marketing.   

If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.

So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair".   

Now back to work on making BTS great. 

 

 

A stakeholder analysis graph might help people understand the position Bytemaster is in.
It seems he wants to unify stakeholders to consolidate but also so his effort benefits every team.




Bytemaster is a key player.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeholder_analysis
http://www.stakeholdermap.com/stakeholder-analysis.html
http://www.stakeholdermap.com/stakeholder-analysis/Stakeholder-Analysis-keyplayers.html


http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newPPM_07.htm

[CLains]

Perspective. 

[Stan]

Would it be prudent to ask that any developers who are paid by the capital infusion funds sign non-compete agreements, so that if they walk away at some point in the future they are not doing so to set-up a direct competitor of bitshares?

A DAC is not a legal entity. It would be impossible to enforce such an agreement.

True.  We see this as a natural progression for all developers.  Generate open source code for everybody until it comes time to go pursue your own dreams.

[Method-X]

"BTS is good,worth 500USD without any problem".

All we have to do is agree not to sell our BTSX for less than $500 USD. Is anyone else willing to put a sell order for BTSX at $500 USD? Or BitUSD? We could create a giant wall that could make for great PR!

I'll do it.

[donkeypong]

"BTS is good,worth 500USD without any problem".

All we have to do is agree not to sell our BTSX for less than $500 USD. Is anyone else willing to put a sell order for BTSX at $500 USD? Or BitUSD? We could create a giant wall that could make for great PR!

[Method-X]

Would it be prudent to ask that any developers who are paid by the capital infusion funds sign non-compete agreements, so that if they walk away at some point in the future they are not doing so to set-up a direct competitor of bitshares?

A DAC is not a legal entity. It would be impossible to enforce such an agreement.

[mint chocolate chip]

Would it be prudent to ask that any developers who are paid by the capital infusion funds sign non-compete agreements, so that if they walk away at some point in the future they are not doing so to set-up a direct competitor of bitshares?

[xeroc]

Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR...

Remember that you can learn anything, "bad at PR" is just a limiting label (perhaps ego calls it "too honest for PR").

That's what makes this community so awesome!!

[CLains]

Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR...

Remember that you can learn anything, "bad at PR" is just a limiting label (perhaps ego calls it "too honest for PR").

[donkeypong]

I'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.

I AM a tad unrealistic!  As I see it, $0.25 will be a good start. But then, I think that if/when BitShares gets that much notice, it should gain some critical mass. This is SO MUCH more useful than Bitcoin. If it's hovering at that market cap, it's going to get a ton more attention. If we reach 10x, then I honestly see this getting a lot bigger.

[eagleeye]

BTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that. 

Is that joke?

We will not recognize anything but 500 USD per BTSX for the future.

I think that's a tad unrealistic... I'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.

It is not unrealistic at all.

[Stan]

BTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that. 

Is that joke?

We will not recognize anything but 500 USD per BTSX for the future.

Properly, properly! 

[Method-X]

BTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that. 

Is that joke?

We will not recognize anything but 500 USD per BTSX for the future.

I think that's a tad unrealistic... I'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.

[CLains]

BTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that. 

[Harvey]

Thank you so much for the sharing of the stories behind the scenes.
I believe it help a lot to get the community understand and supported the BTS Merger.
 

[werneo]

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

-5%

Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR...  we haven't identified the balance... but I hope to remain accessible and transparent because that is what people expect.

ByteMaster-- Maybe you could have a personal proxy for things like your "The Vote DAC just got more interesting" O.P.

If your goal is to keep access to the mindshare of the crowd, maybe you could figure out a way to decouple your identity from your participation in the forum. So you might first write the equivalent of "The Vote DAC just got more interesting" O.P., then send it to Toast for review. The developers can have an internal discussion, and then Toast posts BM's original idea but it's been retread and its source camouflaged through a new identity. Then you could get the community feedback, but no one would guess it was the CEO making a bold new proposal.

[donkeypong]

Good job!

[CryptoPrometheus]

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

-5%. We do not want that.
We appreciate your thoughts even if some times they are not  well communicated and affect the market massively. It is better to share honestly your thoughts as you are already doing rather than having no idea of future plans in your head and get caught by very nasty surprises..

Once we figure out the rules for shareholder voting on hard forks, etc., I think bytemaster will be able to post whatever he wants because everybody will know that at the end of the day it will be up to the shareholders.

[Stan]

I'll remind everyone that in the past I have had my head handed to me for announcing a plan for PTS2 that seemed like a no-brainer to me.

So now we propose ideas and get feedback first.  Like everyone demands.

If not, you would have seen several very different announcements over the past week! 

You wouldn't have liked that either.   

[JuJiShou]

5%，good，just do it!

来自我的 HUAWEI C8815 上的 Tapatalk

[TurkeyLeg]

The forum will remain important... this will be a gradual change as part of the rebranding and marketing campaign.

  Thanks for this post BM. Your perspective is appreciated. I am long and strong on BTSX/BTS.

[mf-tzo]

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

-5%. We do not want that.
We appreciate your thoughts even if some times they are not  well communicated and affect the market massively. It is better to share honestly your thoughts as you are already doing rather than having no idea of future plans in your head and get caught by very nasty surprises..

[bytemaster]

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

-5%

Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR...  we haven't identified the balance... but I hope to remain accessible and transparent because that is what people expect.

[CNMBM]

BM do you think you are god, can decide everything?

[roadscape]

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

-5%

[bytemaster]

The forum will remain important... this will be a gradual change as part of the rebranding and marketing campaign.   

[werneo]

If only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......
If only you can communicate with other devs first....

 

Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.

It does not had to happened.

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

If that helps with the development and public image,and that's what it takes,that should be it.
That kind of stuff should be handled in a more professional way.That's what a 50 million company should do.

You can post a thousand news without compromising the PR image.You can post about "how fast I've made the DPOS"，"what kind of function I want to add on the menu",that's cool,man.But something that's related to the business itself,you should not tread lightly.

The world is changing,BTS is changing,you need to adapt as well.

If BM stops posting, then he will no longer have the advantage of crowd intelligence, and will instead have to rely upon insular "developers" to find consensus. Seems like that would increase the time BM needs to make decisions, and decrease the quality of the feedback on which the decision is made.

If BM does not stop posting... then investors and speculators will have to get used to the up and downs of this new business.

We need a solution that maintains Dan's access to the forum's brain bank without spooking the market.

[Chuckone]

If only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......
If only you can communicate with other devs first....

 

Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.

It does not had to happened.

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

It's sad that it had to come to that point. Your input is highly valued around here, and to be able to witness the evolution of your vision over time, post by post, was very interesting.

Unfortunately, a lot of people will panic sell for an interpretation they have of a single post. Then it has a cascading effect and then a lot more get on panic mode.

As Stan said, due diligence is everyone's responsibility.

[davidpbrown]

This is a useful post from BM (?perhaps sticky it) but the obvious question that it prompts is how vunerable are each of the DACs to the numbers of devs available.

I don't know, if a simple statement of which devs are now working on which DAC can be made available so we better understand the risk and opportunities.

If BM can move markets like this, are there other stresses relative to the number of devs available to each DAC that need resolving or supporting? If the dev pool really is smaller than perception, then obviously that is all the more reason to draw everything together and provide a strong base from which to work as one.

As Mars.Walker noted context is important. 

Also nothing wrong with moving slower!!.. consistent and steady progress, is really good for confidence.

[xeroc]

If only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......
If only you can communicate with other devs first....

 

Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.

It does not had to happened.

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

Here we go .. I told you guys that will happen if you start complaining about it ..

  .. hope you will continue the mumble hangouts

[bytemaster]

If only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......
If only you can communicate with other devs first....

 

Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.

It does not had to happened.

Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.

[pc]

People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things.

I'm sure AGS holders will disagree there. How far the social consensus can be called 'legally binding' is beyond my qualifications, though.
Same for buyers of PTS.

[mf-tzo]

  to the post and I hope BM that you know by now that I fully support whatever the outcome of this experiment and whatever the losses some times.

Losses hopefully are short term. BTS will be competing with bitcoin one day. But if we want this day to come we need to start act accordingly. No one (except your long term supporters including myself) seeing DNS plunging by 50% within minutes, when most people had their stakes unclaimed for a reason (expecting DNS to be valued much more) will trust BTS for whatever the reason be. just my 2 btsx..

[xeroc]

[russkroe]

Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case.  The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. 

So here is a perspective for your consideration.

BTSX, VOTE, DNS, AGS, and PTS are all separate groups of people each of which wants something from *me* whether I owe them anything or not.    They all want me to do, say, or build something that makes them money.  Now the reality is that my goal is to build the best toolkit and keep pushing things forward on that front.  People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things.   Other people took my work on the toolkit and turned it into BTSX.   I gave grants to DNS & Play.   Everyone else is an independent group of people speculating on an asset that they know is not a security, has no legally binding promises, and is a hope.

All of these groups represents a "team" or "tribe" that wants me to play for them and no one wants me to play "against them" in the competitive free market.   

So the first team that made a bid for my attention was VOTE.... vote offered me and everyone on our team a large stake along with PTS / AGS... but offered BTSX nothing.   This was a fair and legitimate way for me to go... after delivering on BTSX core features and spending funds donated prior to BTSX snapshot.   But it would have made team BTSX very upset at losing their key players for long term growth even though plans were in place to allow BTSX to steal all of the work paid for by team VOTE for free. 

So the next thing I did is propose a bid for my attention that would bring everyone under one roof.  Who's call is it?  Mine.  Do I get to be arbitrary? Yes because I get to chose which project I work on.  So it comes down to me negotiating with BTSX on the terms of the deal.   I effectively ask BTSX to share drop on the competition as a means of motivating but not requiring them to join us. 

So team BTSX got my attention and every other team got something out of the deal.   DNS + VOTE could still exist and could still compete.  We didn't actually *buy* their stake, we just honored it with no strings attached.  Did they get a "fair price"... well, a gift is certainly fair.   

Now DNS is faced with a challenge on how to develop, grow, and hire talent.  They are free to form a team, hire developers, and make a go.  Nothing has been taken from them except their project lead has handed it off.   They are free to plunder all the work we do on BTS and thus have much cheaper development cost... so all DNS must pay for is marketing.   

If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.

So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair".   

Now back to work on making BTS great. 

 

 

 

[bytemaster]

Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case.  The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. 

So here is a perspective for your consideration.

BTSX, VOTE, DNS, AGS, and PTS are all separate groups of people each of which wants something from *me* whether I owe them anything or not.    They all want me to do, say, or build something that makes them money.  Now the reality is that my goal is to build the best toolkit and keep pushing things forward on that front.  People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things.   Other people took my work on the toolkit and turned it into BTSX.   I gave grants to DNS & Play.   Everyone else is an independent group of people speculating on an asset that they know is not a security, has no legally binding promises, and is a hope.

All of these groups represents a "team" or "tribe" that wants me to play for them and no one wants me to play "against them" in the competitive free market.   

So the first team that made a bid for my attention was VOTE.... vote offered me and everyone on our team a large stake along with PTS / AGS... but offered BTSX nothing.   This was a fair and legitimate way for me to go... after delivering on BTSX core features and spending funds donated prior to BTSX snapshot.   But it would have made team BTSX very upset at losing their key players for long term growth even though plans were in place to allow BTSX to steal all of the work paid for by team VOTE for free. 

So the next thing I did is propose a bid for my attention that would bring everyone under one roof.  Who's call is it?  Mine.  Do I get to be arbitrary? Yes because I get to chose which project I work on.  So it comes down to me negotiating with BTSX on the terms of the deal.   I effectively ask BTSX to share drop on the competition as a means of motivating but not requiring them to join us. 

So team BTSX got my attention and every other team got something out of the deal.   DNS + VOTE could still exist and could still compete.  We didn't actually *buy* their stake, we just honored it with no strings attached.  Did they get a "fair price"... well, a gift is certainly fair.   

Now DNS is faced with a challenge on how to develop, grow, and hire talent.  They are free to form a team, hire developers, and make a go.  Nothing has been taken from them except their project lead has handed it off.   They are free to plunder all the work we do on BTS and thus have much cheaper development cost... so all DNS must pay for is marketing.   

If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.

So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair".   

Now back to work on making BTS great.