BitUSD across DACs

[mf-tzo]

Generally, I use my bank account as a place to store money prior to spending it.  With this analogy, I would fully expect to be able to transfer BitUSD from BitsharesX to Peertracks at a 1:1 ratio, much like if I were to deposit money into an exchange (like Bitstamp or Mt. Gox).

Until one day you realize that you cannot place or withdraw money from Gox. And another day you realize that if you had a bank account in Cyprus you wouldn't either. And another day maybe you realize that you can't withdraw money from bitstamp either. And another day guess what...You may not be able to withdraw usd from your precious banks in America... But you will always be able to exchange your bitshares bitusd to your music bitusd even if it is not 1:1 always...And you know why? because No One can shut down DACS and your bitusds will always be backed by collateral.Not like the current banking system.

People, especially in the US,  take for granted that their Government IOU usd will always be honored. I hope you don't get caught by nasty  surprises in the future which imho will be inevitable unless we change our perspective of seeing things. Personally I don't trust my Government to always honor their EUR IOU and that is the reason I am here, just to protect my self from the inevitable. 

[wasthatawolf]

bitstampUSD != mtgoxUSD ?!

See what I did?

Not sure how to fix this ..
not even sure if a fix is required

Apples to oranges.

BitsharesX is marketed as a decentralized bank.

Generally, I use my bank account as a place to store money prior to spending it.  With this analogy, I would fully expect to be able to transfer BitUSD from BitsharesX to Peertracks at a 1:1 ratio, much like if I were to deposit money into an exchange (like Bitstamp or Mt. Gox). 

[wasthatawolf]

bitstampUSD != mtgoxUSD ?!

See what I did?

Not sure how to fix this ..
not even sure if a fix is required

Apples to oranges.

[xeroc]

bitstampUSD != mtgoxUSD ?!

See what I did?

Not sure how to fix this ..
not even sure if a fix is required

[wasthatawolf]

PeerTracks is going to be accepting cash through credit card purchases they will have an onramp straight from fiat. Their bitusd will be backed by notes on one side and fiat on the otherside. Since they are not providing yield/interest on their bitusd, the transaction fees that don't go to delegates can go to a reserve. If we are the big superDAC, then they are now lean focus DAC. It will be interesting to see how each performs.

If we grow as fast or faster than them then maybe we can merge or just buy them out before someone else does.

Peertracks BitUSD != Bitshares BitUSD

Ask anyone not following these forums closely if they are aware of this distinction.  My bet is a majority are not.

This is the core issue.

[Pheonike]

PeerTracks is going to be accepting cash through credit card purchases they will have an onramp straight from fiat. Their bitusd will be backed by notes on one side and fiat on the otherside. Since they are not providing yield/interest on their bitusd, the transaction fees that don't go to delegates can go to a reserve. If we are the big superDAC, then they are now lean focus DAC. It will be interesting to see how each performs.

If we grow as fast or faster than them then maybe we can merge or just buy them out before someone else does.

[wasthatawolf]

I guess I don't see the problem. They'll at least be plugged into one another for cross-chain trading. The values may correct any small discrepancies at that point. Until then, what's the harm in using the same currency? It is, after all, pegged to the dollar.

The problem is that by using the same name it isn't clear that they're different.  Just because they have the same peg, doesn't change the fact that they will each have their own market rate against the dollar.  The spread between the two BitUSDs will be looked at as a floating fee to the average user and will at best confuse them and at worst discourage them from using the platform.

[donkeypong]

I guess I don't see the problem. They'll at least be plugged into one another for cross-chain trading. The values may correct any small discrepancies at that point. Until then, what's the harm in using the same currency? It is, after all, pegged to the dollar.

[wasthatawolf]

My point was that inclusion of the Music DAC is being considered. Bytemaster and Cob have both said this in the last couple of days. I felt it was important to correct your statement that "Peertracks is not going to be part of the SuperDAC". Technically, this is true, since PeerTracks is the external retail site, but anyone reading this forum needs to know that the decision on the Music DAC (back end) has not been made, as far as I am aware. So it would be inaccurate to say that it is not being included.

This is just semantics.  Regardless of what might happen in the future, we need to consider the here and now.  Current plans indicate (per Xeroc's most recent post) that Peertracks will plug into BitShares Music and not the BitShares SuperDAC.

The Peertracks guys discuss BitUSD in interviews NOW (at least in the most recent Bitcoins and Gravy interview which is what led me to start this thread).

The Peertracks website discusses BitUSD NOW.

There needs to be a clear distinction NOW between BitUSD that is used within the BitShares Music DAC and BitUSD used within the BitShares SuperDAC.  It should be abundantly clear to all parties involved that BitUSD is not fungible between chains. 

I'm extremely surprised that more people don't see a huge issue with how BitUSD is currently being marketed as a single asset.

[xeroc]

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10258.msg134826#msg134826

As of now the Music DAC is taking a wait and see approach. We have to develop the front end as well to bring value and use to the underlying asset. We have plenty of time to make a decision as to what we plug in to. BitShares Music or BitShares mega flagship.

We still have another 40 days of pre-sale at least + bytemaster's announcement to look forward to.
Then we have to consult the forums (:

A month is a long time in the BitShares world!

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10258.msg135922#msg135922

Eddie and I's responsibility is to the Music Project and the Note holders.
Whatever we end up doing has to be either neutral or beneficial to whoever spent funds on aquiring Notes.
So we are not changing course.
If anything happens down the line the BTS merger appears super beneficial, then of course we will do what's best for your guys and ourselves.

Point is. Right now, Plan A stays. BitShares Music is it's own DAC.

[donkeypong]

The biggest problem we're currently facing is that Peertracks is not going to be part of the SuperDAC yet it is being leveraged as a platform to on board many new users to the idea of DACs and pegged assets (primarily BitUSD).  Everyone needs to stop referring to all USD pegged assets as BitUSD.  You're confusing your users before they even start using the platform.

This is inaccurate. I know there's been a lot going on this week, but search some other threads; this has been mentioned several times. The Music DAC is considering merging its DAC side into the BitShares SuperDAC. That decision has not yet been made. Cross-chain trading will be enabled at some point. So this is not an issue.

Well now I'm confused. 

From what I've read and the responses I've seen on this thread, the inclusion of the Music DAC is a "down the road, maybe we'll do this" kind of thing.  If you're going to be making a big marketing push for the Bitshares SuperDAC in the near future, then this needs to be decided first. 

The last thing we need is to confuse a market that is already confused by DACs in general.

My point was that inclusion of the Music DAC is being considered. Bytemaster and Cob have both said this in the last couple of days. I felt it was important to correct your statement that "Peertracks is not going to be part of the SuperDAC". Technically, this is true, since PeerTracks is the external retail site, but anyone reading this forum needs to know that the decision on the Music DAC (back end) has not been made, as far as I am aware. So it would be inaccurate to say that it is not being included.

[wasthatawolf]

The biggest problem we're currently facing is that Peertracks is not going to be part of the SuperDAC yet it is being leveraged as a platform to on board many new users to the idea of DACs and pegged assets (primarily BitUSD).  Everyone needs to stop referring to all USD pegged assets as BitUSD.  You're confusing your users before they even start using the platform.

This is inaccurate. I know there's been a lot going on this week, but search some other threads; this has been mentioned several times. The Music DAC is considering merging its DAC side into the BitShares SuperDAC. That decision has not yet been made. Cross-chain trading will be enabled at some point. So this is not an issue.

Well now I'm confused. 

From what I've read and the responses I've seen on this thread, the inclusion of the Music DAC is a "down the road, maybe we'll do this" kind of thing.  If you're going to be making a big marketing push for the Bitshares SuperDAC in the near future, then this needs to be decided first. 

The last thing we need is to confuse a market that is already confused by DACs in general.

[donkeypong]

The biggest problem we're currently facing is that Peertracks is not going to be part of the SuperDAC yet it is being leveraged as a platform to on board many new users to the idea of DACs and pegged assets (primarily BitUSD).  Everyone needs to stop referring to all USD pegged assets as BitUSD.  You're confusing your users before they even start using the platform.

This is inaccurate. I know there's been a lot going on this week, but search some other threads; this has been mentioned several times. The Music DAC is considering merging its DAC side into the BitShares SuperDAC. That decision has not yet been made. Cross-chain trading will be enabled at some point. So this is not an issue.

[teenagecheese]

From the Peertracks FAQ...

What is a BitUSD?

This is what you will be spending/earning on PeerTracks. User’s will convert their funds (USD, Euro, CAD, Peso, etc) into a form that is readable by the Bitshares Music Blockchain: BitUSD. Blockchains have very low transaction fees compared to banking institutions, credit card companies or even paypal. This allows for micro transactions which in turn allows the free flow of funds from fan to artist without anyone in the middle taking a huge cut.

No mention at all that this is not compatible with BitUSD on BitsharesX.

wasthatawolf, I am totally with you on all your comments. I hope the dev. team is aware of this and working on it. If they do not see the problem with this than I am worried.

[wasthatawolf]

From the Peertracks FAQ...

What is a BitUSD?

This is what you will be spending/earning on PeerTracks. User’s will convert their funds (USD, Euro, CAD, Peso, etc) into a form that is readable by the Bitshares Music Blockchain: BitUSD. Blockchains have very low transaction fees compared to banking institutions, credit card companies or even paypal. This allows for micro transactions which in turn allows the free flow of funds from fan to artist without anyone in the middle taking a huge cut.

No mention at all that this is not compatible with BitUSD on BitsharesX.