Author Topic: PTS -> BTS ratio?  (Read 6624 times)

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Offline Riverhead

You are being ridiculous. Obviously after Nov 5th, PTS is going to go down the shitter. Obviously the value of PTS is transferred into the BTS portion. Obviously the liquidity part of PTS is NOT being transferred.

Well hot damn, may be I'll just pick up PTS and honor it 100% to my first DAC and forget about BTS ecosystem altogether.

Hah, I probably am.

However PTS wouldn't be the first beleaguered brand to get a second kick at the cat (check out the history of Indian Motorcycles). If/when PTS crashes I'll probably pick up a bunch on the chance that a 3rd party project airdrops it.

Offline mf-tzo

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Thank you Xeroc.

Don't fully get that since I thought the Dev funds were part of the initial supply of 5 bil and 3 bil and I would assume that they could convert their dev funds as well in BTS and change them to bitusd if they wanted but never mind. I do not really care anyway how this is handled..

Is there a plan finalized as to when we claim those shares? Is there a cost if we claim them on the 6th November? Is there a benefit of not claiming them for 2 years?

Offline xeroc

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Why do you multiply DNS and Vote by 80%??
The other 20% are either dev fund .. or not allocated at all .. DNS is an inflationary blockchain with inflating delegates

Offline mf-tzo

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My calculation...

PTS      1:99.34275
AGS     1:87.5
DNS     1:0.01875
VOTE   1:0.015
BTSX   1:1

What I am missing? PTS-AGS calculations are obvious:

PTS: (2,500,000,000 x 7%) / 1,761,610 = c99.34

AGS: (2,500,000,000 x 7%) / 2,000,000 = 87.5

But for DNS and Vote I would have calculated as follows:

DNS: (2,500,000,000 x 3%) / 5,000,000,000 = 0.15

VOTE: (2,500,000,000 x 3%) / 3,000,000,000 = 0.025

Why do you multiply DNS and Vote by 80%??

Offline bitmeat

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PTS position will not be locked. Your PTS will be just as liquid as they are today. If someone else wants to honor the PTS social contract with a new blockchain they still can. If someone wants to pick up PTS and continue to develop the currency they still can.

The only thing locked is the airdropped BTS in the new SuperDac that is calculated based on PTS/AGS balances on Nov 5th.

So it's not the PTS/AGS/DNS that is locked but the 500,000,000 BTS that are being added to the 2B supply of BTS when the DACs are merged.

You are being ridiculous. Obviously after Nov 5th, PTS is going to go down the shitter. Obviously the value of PTS is transferred into the BTS portion. Obviously the liquidity part of PTS is NOT being transferred.

Well hot damn, may be I'll just pick up PTS and honor it 100% to my first DAC and forget about BTS ecosystem altogether.

Offline Riverhead

PTS position will not be locked. Your PTS will be just as liquid as they are today. If someone else wants to honor the PTS social contract with a new blockchain they still can. If someone wants to pick up PTS and continue to develop the currency they still can.

The only thing locked is the airdropped BTS in the new SuperDac that is calculated based on PTS/AGS balances on Nov 5th.

So it's not the PTS/AGS/DNS that is locked but the 500,000,000 BTS that are being added to the 2B supply of BTS when the DACs are merged.

Offline bitmeat

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That's my point - there is no real incentive to hold PTS at all with the current setup. Unless they make PTS not have to vest, which in my mind would be fair.

I mean it is liquid right now, so it's not like adding a lock to it is going to stop people from liquidating it.

I still do not get your point though....

You want BM to make such an incentive or what?

PTS is a sell-able badge in my view - "Here, I am a Bitshares enthusiast. And my self proclaimed value is X" (X is the amount of badge I have bought). I am not contributing any other value to the system except purchasing said badge, and declaring my value to be as high as that.
 ohh and btw, at any second I choose I can sell this badge for whatever I find appropriate....

The point is that PTS had a much higher value due to the fact that it is liquid, it was it's main characteristic.

When you bundle PTS and AGS into the merger, I can understand AGS liquidity being locked for 2 years, but the PTS should not be locked in.

The argument for the locking of liquidity was to prevent sudden dumping of BTS, but the thing is PTS is already liquid, so in fact it is causing people to dump PTS and buy BTSX. Since BTSX will remain liquid when it switched to BTS, while PTS portion will suddenly be locked.

Offline liondani

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Yeeeh, but those BTSX mature linearly over 2 years period. I have to think a bit how to calculate exactly what return is that...or I can wait for arhag to provide the formula for me   :) , as I do not have any readily available BTC in the next 48h anyway  :)


Excellent point! You might be better off just buying BTSX and then after Nov 5th converting it to bitUSD and earning the yield while staying completely liquid.
Why not keep the the most possible bts on our  portofolio?
Is it only me that thinks that the demand for bts will be much greater than it's dilution over time?


PS of course it would not be a bad idea to hold for example 30% of our position  in bitAssets in general.

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Offline Stan

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Is it possible other dev to take over PTS after Nov 5?
PTS is popular and it's already listed in exchangers.

Absolutely.  I would encourage it.
Might be polite to coordinate with TestZ on that though...
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline joele

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Is it possible other dev to take over PTS after Nov 5?
PTS is popular and it's already listed in exchangers.

Offline clayop

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My calculation...

PTS      1:99.34275
AGS     1:87.5
DNS     1:0.01875
VOTE   1:0.015
BTSX   1:1
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Offline tonyk

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That's my point - there is no real incentive to hold PTS at all with the current setup. Unless they make PTS not have to vest, which in my mind would be fair.

I mean it is liquid right now, so it's not like adding a lock to it is going to stop people from liquidating it.

I still do not get your point though....

You want BM to make such an incentive or what?

PTS is a sell-able badge in my view - "Here, I am a Bitshares enthusiast. And my self proclaimed value is X" (X is the amount of badge I have bought). I am not contributing any other value to the system except purchasing said badge, and declaring my value to be as high as that.
 ohh and btw, at any second I choose I can sell this badge for whatever I find appropriate....
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Riverhead

Maybe they're hoping people liquidate before the snapshot. Though this doesn't mean pts goes away...it just won't serve any purpose in 3I projects because 3I won't exist soon. If you have pts Nov 5th you'll still have them on the 6th and anyone can offer holders a stake in a current or future chain.

That said their value may not go to zero at 0001 UTC so you can still sell them post snapshot and buy BTS.

We're being AirDroped BTS so it's not like they are making pts illiquid.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 04:45:06 am by Riverhead »

Offline bitmeat

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That's my point - there is no real incentive to hold PTS at all with the current setup. Unless they make PTS not have to vest, which in my mind would be fair.

I mean it is liquid right now, so it's not like adding a lock to it is going to stop people from liquidating it.

Offline tonyk

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Yeeeh, but those BTSX mature linearly over 2 years period. I have to think a bit how to calculate exactly what return is that...or I can wait for arhag to provide the formula for me   :) , as I do not have any readily available BTC in the next 48h anyway  :)


Excellent point! You might be better off just buying BTSX and then after Nov 5th converting it to bitUSD and earning the yield while staying completely liquid.
Yes. On that front I am sure I will be better off if I get the liquidity right away... as I theoretically should do even better than just receiving the yield on bitSomething by simply being the yield provider  :)  I am not too concerned about making the right trade, I am more curious what exactly the current discount equals to [purely for my calculating pleasure].
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.