BM:i tell you why you are the bigest bug of bts

[JetainM]

Note to PTS holders... we didn't take your liquidity, we gave you liquidity.

PTS is liquid and remains liquid... holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.    Now they get gradual liquidity in a real DAC that is implementing all of the features they were hoping for. 

So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.

I am not care about liquidity.Because it was wrong at the begining.
What i really care about is that no one have the right to destroy the white paper, no one have the right to destroy the social contract, no one have the right to be a dictator of the community.
Why does a discussion turn into a decision?And it is necessary for us  to continue the discussion  on the wrong direction?
In other words,iii create the pts/ags/bts_toolkit/btsx and we admit,but you have no right to destroy them.When they were born, they belong to the community,not you.

I don't know whether you understand what I mean, but I want to discuss so far  so that we can reduce the loss of the community ASAP.

[joele]

Happy to do more than make a gesture.
Happy to continue to make the recommendation that any 3rd party developer that honors the original AGS/PTS should be honored and supported.  Two examples are BitShares Music and BitShares Play.   

But keep in mind the Ten Laws of the Crypto Universe.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2876.msg35841#msg35841

Developers will do what they think they need to do to succeed.
And the Ten Laws will incentivize them to honor the strongest supporters.

We promise to compete aggressively according to those natural laws.
(A much more polite way of saying what you seem to want.)

Either way we intend to show PTS/AGS/BTS are three great ways for a new DAC to win.

 

[yidaidaxia]

BM, you really should think about the Merge thing again.
The future of DAC ( including DNS/Vote etc) and BTS might all go to hell becuase your wrong decision.
You will lost Chinese community support in the future except someone who hold a lot of BTS and Agser before 2.28.
Wake up!

It's fine that different people have different view and point. But pls never try to represent for anyone other than yourself... You could no do that unless you get clear authority from the one you representing...

For example, I'm stongly supporting the new proposal (just some details like dilution rate / future third party guidlines / lock-up time need more discussion/refinement in my opinion), and at least I do not see the majority of Chinese community against the new proposal although I could not speak for anyone other than myself.

[Method-X]

So this is a meme going around in the Chinese community? Bytemaster biggest bug? lol

[Stan]

If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

Yes but BTS will only be snapshotted 20% I presume so they will get 20% of 20% which is 4%.

Tell them that we don't expect any forks worth while to fork at just 20%... I think third parties will do what is best... we always said that AGS/PTS was voluntariy and best practice is 10%.... not everyone does 10%.   The point is that I wouldn't worry about 3rd parties much... it would be like complaining that you aren't getting a large stake in all of the alt coins.

The people asking for semi-mandatory guidance for 3rd DAC don't care about the actual value.
Just one in a thousand jackpot would be nice to live with.
Even if they got a thousand junk DAC's 20%,they will laugh,because their faith in you were not in vain.

Even if 3rd party dac don't give 20% after your semi-mandatory guidance,they don't care.

Even if in the end,all the 3rd party DAC are Junk ,they don't care.They just want a gesture.

Happy to do more than make a gesture.
Happy to continue to make the recommendation that any 3rd party developer that honors the original AGS/PTS should be honored and supported.  Two examples are BitShares Music and BitShares Play.   

But keep in mind the Ten Laws of the Crypto Universe.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2876.msg35841#msg35841

Developers will do what they think they need to do to succeed.
And the Ten Laws will incentivize them to honor the strongest supporters.

We promise to compete aggressively according to those natural laws.
(A much more polite way of saying what you seem to want.)

Either way we intend to show PTS/AGS/BTS are three great ways for a new DAC to win.

[pgbit]

I know of at least one third party that is still considering honoring PTS and another is considering taking over PTS support since it is already a living, traded, high ranking coin on coinmarketcap.com.

There is an opportunity sitting there for entrepreneurs to attract a big bunch of supporters looking for something to do with their PTS.  We will support this strongly.   

"When you're finished changing, you're finished."

Benjamin Franklin

[bytemaster]

If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

Yes but BTS will only be snapshotted 20% I presume so they will get 20% of 20% which is 4%.

Tell them that we don't expect any forks worth while to fork at just 20%... I think third parties will do what is best... we always said that AGS/PTS was voluntariy and best practice is 10%.... not everyone does 10%.   The point is that I wouldn't worry about 3rd parties much... it would be like complaining that you aren't getting a large stake in all of the alt coins.

The people asking for semi-mandatory guidance for 3rd DAC don't care about the actual value.
Just one in a thousand jackpot would be nice to live with.
Even if they got a thousand junk DAC's 20%,they will laugh,because their faith in you were not in vain.

Even if 3rd party dac don't give 20% after your semi-mandatory guidance,they don't care.

Even if in the end,all the 3rd party DAC are Junk ,they don't care.They just want a gesture.

It is really very simple... a DAC is nothing without a team.  We can fork the code, but that wouldn't matter unless we committed to run the DAC... and then we would be competing against ourselves again.  Thus the most I can say is that we will work to out compete everyone the best we can and no one will attempt a DAC without funding, a team, etc.  So the new team behind the 3rd party DAC will have to do its best to win Chinese support.

[Stan]

Note to PTS holders... we didn't take your liquidity, we gave you liquidity.

PTS is liquid and remains liquid... holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.    Now they get gradual liquidity in a real DAC that is implementing all of the features they were hoping for. 

So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.

Notes from the Chinese community : they can set aside all the difficult part , but the plan must compromise to a really small gesture:

Bitshares team must announce that "Third party DAC using BTS toolkit must give 20% to ags and pts, or the almighty Bitshares team will fork
you ! fork you !!"

The guys don't actually hold you to your word to fork it ,just a gesture from the bitshares team as a "semi-mandatory" guidance to third party developers.You don't have to promise when to fork, just have to let 3rd party devs know "If you don't give it to us,we will fork !!!!!"

This compromise,don't actually cost you guys anything.But can bring many people peace (at least 50%+ of the current protesters).

No need to FORK them... their technological and economical distinctivness will be added to our own.   In other words... 3rd parties have and will continue to honor AGS/PTS for the good will of recognizing those who funded this ecosystem.

You don't understand...No one is asking you to fork them.
3rd Party  just need to know they will be forked .

Otherwise ,some 3rd party using DAC might actually success without the PTS and AGS as a starting market promotion plan.
They can win,and thinking that you won't fork them.   ----- in the end,AGS and PTS still get nothing,and yet contribute the toolkit to a 3rd Party for nothing.

You're assuming PTS and AGS are good enough market demographic , so 3rd would like to get alone with these people.But what if they can find a better demographic with far less cost ?

By the way,by 3rd party dac should give to AGS and PTS, I'm talking about the old AGS and PTS ,not give it though the new BTS

Yes, that is still an option developers will have if they decide what you are saying about your demographic is correct.  The Nov 5th snapshot will be there for all time honoring their interests separately.  Meanwhile they are ALSO share-dropped a stake they didn't have in the new DAC.  Whichever way succeeds, they will win.  They have BOTH!  (Both is good.)   

As far as being forked.  That should be obvious that it will happen - two ways:
1.  Stick:  Other third parties will see the opportunity to compete with your support.
2.  Carrot:  BitShares will be competing to attract all DAC developer's inside.

We tell them, don't compete, here's an incentive to build your new ideas on top of a fast-growing platform that can accelerate you to stardom overnight.  If you choose to compete, we will compete to preserve our network effect for all the other tenants in our DAC Business District.  That means offering our own version of emerging good ideas.  We are duty bound to do so.

Will this gesture meet your needs?

[Riverhead]

  Someone just asked me a fun question.....He said if you like your math,he would like to trade his PTS for your BTSX now , according to the value you calculated. Does that sound good?

At current prices holding PTS comes with about a 5% advantage over BTSX at the price of liquidity. I have no plans to sell any BTS so that doesn't bother me. I'm certainly not selling any of my PTS to gain instant liquidity.

Add to that the PTS doesn't evaporate. There is a possibility someone will pick up the mantle and make a go of it.

How many PTS are we talking here?

[xeroc]

Without it, every new DAC would cannibalize the former.
Now, every new DAC accelerates the former.[/center]

BAM!

nice quote!

[bytemaster]

If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

Yes but BTS will only be snapshotted 20% I presume so they will get 20% of 20% which is 4%.

Tell them that we don't expect any forks worth while to fork at just 20%... I think third parties will do what is best... we always said that AGS/PTS was voluntariy and best practice is 10%.... not everyone does 10%.   The point is that I wouldn't worry about 3rd parties much... it would be like complaining that you aren't getting a large stake in all of the alt coins.

[Stan]

Is it just me, or is a lot of the hatred for these changes coming directly from the Chinese community? The majority on this board seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of the proposed changes, but we keep getting these random attacks from Chinese board members who are absolutely against it...

Is there some kind of miscommunication going on here? These changes are necessary and will greatly benefit the ecosystem as a whole...I'm struggling to see how anyone can't see that.

well,because many people don't have BTSX , and those people invested in AGS PTS big time.
It's just a matter of interest.
I can't be convinced BTC will success,because I don't actually own any bitcoin.But if you give 100BTC to me,I would like to support Bitcoin in any way. 

Do they understand that they now do have a nice stake in BTS?

I understand....just they don't think it's nicer than the originals.
But like I said,it's totally understandable why people would react like that.

Because PTS and AGS actually stood for something to them,the value of PTS and AGS trade for BTS is not a good deal for them.

Because they don't really believe that BTS they got is enough for the "endless possibility" that the original AGS and PTS can give them.

It's not a simple math.....Because they're not convinced this is a good deal.

We are determined to make it a good deal.
We recommended this approach as the best way to deliver value to them by far.
Our power to do so is now greatly amplified.
We are BIG holders of PTS and AGS with them.
And now we can deliver on their expectations much faster.
Without it, every new DAC would cannibalize the former.
Now, every new DAC accelerates the former.

[matt608]

If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

Yes but BTS will only be snapshotted 20% I presume so they will get 20% of 20% which is 4%. 

[Riverhead]

If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

[Stan]

I know of at least one third party that is still considering honoring PTS and another is considering taking over PTS support since it is already a living, traded, high ranking coin on coinmarketcap.com.

There is an opportunity sitting there for entrepreneurs to attract a big bunch of supporters looking for something to do with their PTS.  We will support this strongly.