Author Topic: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"  (Read 8346 times)

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Offline Webber

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2014, 01:46:36 am »
Sfind,Anyone will not prevent you from the freedom of speech, but a liar, double-dealing, confuse right and wrong are not qualified as a delegate. I angry with your action that  using 浮壹白metalallen's reputation in chinese community to defraud of vote,you are a shameless fraudsters.
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Offline dcchong

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2014, 03:15:23 am »
sfinder的确做了比较多的造谣,恶意唱多恶意唱空,本来这种事在中国比较常见,我们睁一只眼闭一只眼,我们需要做的是把社区做的更透明,多发布一些清晰的官方信息,这样造谣者就没什么缝隙。当然,对于受托人,我们需要更分布的诚实的受过人,所以造谣过的人的确应该从受托人队伍中清除,何况sfinder拥有多个active delegate。
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 03:21:04 am by dcchong »
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Offline jsidhu

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2014, 04:04:45 am »
this guy named coins looks like hes part ofthe scam.. sfinder and coins should be voted out and shunned by the community.. gluck spreading fud!!
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Offline kbrom

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2014, 04:48:30 am »
中国社区强烈要求把sfinder的所有受托人全部下架!!这样的人绝对不能当受托人!!

Offline Overthetop

Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2014, 04:50:21 am »
It is really simple, I will not vote for a paid position but as long as upgrades are prompt and blocks are produced he can maintain a delegate.
I am wondering why do you still vote for this guy,  he really hurt much of us.
I think many people who love this community want to  maintain  a delegate node.

Let me clarify... while it remains unclear he is fine... but I will probably reduce it to one delegate slot.

I don't want to promote this kind of behavior.

I don't know whether you have received the proofs from Bo Shen or not. Those proofs can tell you that Sfinder's evilness and damage to BTS community, especially BTS Chinese community is undeniable. Look at these IDs who stand out to oppose him, then think about why there is not even one ID with good reputation in Chinese community stands out to support him.

We count on you to vote down him because currently you have the absolute control of delegates positions, so you have the responsibility to respect the opinion of the majority. Delegate is not only a pure technical position, but also a honor position.

 +5%
As a member from chinese community and long term supporter of BTS career, I have the same viewpoint along with Ripplexiaoshan, Alt,HeyD,Crazybit,Sudo,BTSdac,Snail  on sfinder case.

I think the community have plenty of evidence and contexts prove that he is not qualified as a BTS delegate based on his behavior.

The english part of community may not be easy to check the whole thing out ,but the chinese community have been watching on him for a long time , and got the conclusion above.

This case  is very classic and important,I think.

If the community unable to dig the mice out of the BTS system , that proves the weakpoint of the  DPOS mechanism .


Because we even cannt vote out one delegate who is exposed and denied by such number of community members .
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 05:28:34 am by Overthetop »
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Offline NewMine

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2014, 05:40:57 am »
It is really simple, I will not vote for a paid position but as long as upgrades are prompt and blocks are produced he can maintain a delegate.

If it was up to you only, we have a bigger problem. Oh wait......

This does not imply any negative characteristics on your part, just you control a lot of voting power. By default, hat is okay. I'm okay with it. This does look like an oligarchy to outsiders after you took away his votes and sent him to the bottom of the 101 delegates. Can't say one thing and do another. Perhaps these votes should be kept to ones self to avoid any public conflicts of interest or confusion?


Offline matt608

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2014, 10:53:43 am »
Well, this has motivated me to cast my first vote and it was not an intuitive experience.

- Feedback on the voting experience -  (thought I would just post it here)

A few weeks ago I thought I had voted by simply clicking up on a bunch of delegates, but I wasn't sure as I thought a transaction was needed to cast the vote.  Since then I hedged in bitUSD several days ago, so I thought my vote had gone through then as I had made a transaction (even though I still got the message that my not all my stake was voting, I thought, well most of it must be).

But then today I updated a bunch of my votes in the 'delegate' section and downvoted (which I discover is removing the ability to vote in favour rather than a downvote) of the 5 suspect accounts here.  I then thought that I need to make a transaction to cast my vote, so I went and bought 0.1bitUSD, thinking that would do the trick.  But I did that and my account continued to say I was not voting with all my stake.  So, I kept looking and found in my account the 'update vote' button,

I didn't want to 'vote all' as that sounded like I could vote even for the delegates I had downvoted, and I didn't want a random subset as that sounded like it could include them too, so I clicked 'vote as delegates recommended', and found a bunch of delegates I didn't upvote in the delegates section were voted for.  Confused, I looked on the wiki, and saw that "vote as delegates recommend" results in voting for a delegates 'slate' I had approved.  Who's slate?  I still do not know who's 'slate' I approved and I was still getting the 'your not voting with all of your stake' message.  Where do you see and approve a delegates 'slate'?

So, I pressed on, determined to get my vote in, so I looked on the wiki and saw I needed to vote for 101 delegates to get that message to go away and that if I clicked 'vote all' it would do as I said.  So I went back to the delegates and made sure to click on at least 101 delegates, even going into the standby-delegates section to make sure I voted for enough (as some in the top 101 I didn't want to vote for, I hadn't kept count of all the ones in the top 101 I didn't want to vote for so I just had to keep voting in the sub-101 to make sure I had upvoted enough)  and then I updated my vote.  So I presume if I only clicked 100 delegates I would still get that 'not all of your stake is voting' message? 

Mission accomplished (at last).

But that was not an intuitive voting experience.  Why is the 'update vote' button not in the delegates section where the voting is done?  It would help if there was some little instructions that appear as you mouse over the 'vote all, vote none etc' so the wiki doesn't need to be read at the same time.  And what is the purpose of choosing a 'random selection'?  It seems to complicate the process pointlessly.  A user should be able to immediately understand that "vote all" means to vote for all the delegates you have approved and it should be one the same page. 


Offline freebit

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2014, 02:13:16 pm »
It is really simple, I will not vote for a paid position but as long as upgrades are prompt and blocks are produced he can maintain a delegate.
I am wondering why do you still vote for this guy,  he really hurt much of us.
I think many people who love this community want to  maintain  a delegate node.

Yes, shouldn't vote for him, his behavior has hurt many people  who lost a lot of money in  the Chinese community .

Offline bytemaster

Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2014, 02:18:35 pm »
Well, this has motivated me to cast my first vote and it was not an intuitive experience.

- Feedback on the voting experience -  (thought I would just post it here)

A few weeks ago I thought I had voted by simply clicking up on a bunch of delegates, but I wasn't sure as I thought a transaction was needed to cast the vote.  Since then I hedged in bitUSD several days ago, so I thought my vote had gone through then as I had made a transaction (even though I still got the message that my not all my stake was voting, I thought, well most of it must be).

But then today I updated a bunch of my votes in the 'delegate' section and downvoted (which I discover is removing the ability to vote in favour rather than a downvote) of the 5 suspect accounts here.  I then thought that I need to make a transaction to cast my vote, so I went and bought 0.1bitUSD, thinking that would do the trick.  But I did that and my account continued to say I was not voting with all my stake.  So, I kept looking and found in my account the 'update vote' button,

I didn't want to 'vote all' as that sounded like I could vote even for the delegates I had downvoted, and I didn't want a random subset as that sounded like it could include them too, so I clicked 'vote as delegates recommended', and found a bunch of delegates I didn't upvote in the delegates section were voted for.  Confused, I looked on the wiki, and saw that "vote as delegates recommend" results in voting for a delegates 'slate' I had approved.  Who's slate?  I still do not know who's 'slate' I approved and I was still getting the 'your not voting with all of your stake' message.  Where do you see and approve a delegates 'slate'?

So, I pressed on, determined to get my vote in, so I looked on the wiki and saw I needed to vote for 101 delegates to get that message to go away and that if I clicked 'vote all' it would do as I said.  So I went back to the delegates and made sure to click on at least 101 delegates, even going into the standby-delegates section to make sure I voted for enough (as some in the top 101 I didn't want to vote for, I hadn't kept count of all the ones in the top 101 I didn't want to vote for so I just had to keep voting in the sub-101 to make sure I had upvoted enough)  and then I updated my vote.  So I presume if I only clicked 100 delegates I would still get that 'not all of your stake is voting' message? 

Mission accomplished (at last).

But that was not an intuitive voting experience.  Why is the 'update vote' button not in the delegates section where the voting is done?  It would help if there was some little instructions that appear as you mouse over the 'vote all, vote none etc' so the wiki doesn't need to be read at the same time.  And what is the purpose of choosing a 'random selection'?  It seems to complicate the process pointlessly.  A user should be able to immediately understand that "vote all" means to vote for all the delegates you have approved and it should be one the same page.

Thanks for the feedback here... we do need to improve that.
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2014, 02:29:20 pm »
Well, this has motivated me to cast my first vote and it was not an intuitive experience.

- Feedback on the voting experience -  (thought I would just post it here)

A few weeks ago I thought I had voted by simply clicking up on a bunch of delegates, but I wasn't sure as I thought a transaction was needed to cast the vote.  Since then I hedged in bitUSD several days ago, so I thought my vote had gone through then as I had made a transaction (even though I still got the message that my not all my stake was voting, I thought, well most of it must be).

But then today I updated a bunch of my votes in the 'delegate' section and downvoted (which I discover is removing the ability to vote in favour rather than a downvote) of the 5 suspect accounts here.  I then thought that I need to make a transaction to cast my vote, so I went and bought 0.1bitUSD, thinking that would do the trick.  But I did that and my account continued to say I was not voting with all my stake.  So, I kept looking and found in my account the 'update vote' button,

I didn't want to 'vote all' as that sounded like I could vote even for the delegates I had downvoted, and I didn't want a random subset as that sounded like it could include them too, so I clicked 'vote as delegates recommended', and found a bunch of delegates I didn't upvote in the delegates section were voted for.  Confused, I looked on the wiki, and saw that "vote as delegates recommend" results in voting for a delegates 'slate' I had approved.  Who's slate?  I still do not know who's 'slate' I approved and I was still getting the 'your not voting with all of your stake' message.  Where do you see and approve a delegates 'slate'?

So, I pressed on, determined to get my vote in, so I looked on the wiki and saw I needed to vote for 101 delegates to get that message to go away and that if I clicked 'vote all' it would do as I said.  So I went back to the delegates and made sure to click on at least 101 delegates, even going into the standby-delegates section to make sure I voted for enough (as some in the top 101 I didn't want to vote for, I hadn't kept count of all the ones in the top 101 I didn't want to vote for so I just had to keep voting in the sub-101 to make sure I had upvoted enough)  and then I updated my vote.  So I presume if I only clicked 100 delegates I would still get that 'not all of your stake is voting' message? 

Mission accomplished (at last).

But that was not an intuitive voting experience.  Why is the 'update vote' button not in the delegates section where the voting is done?  It would help if there was some little instructions that appear as you mouse over the 'vote all, vote none etc' so the wiki doesn't need to be read at the same time.  And what is the purpose of choosing a 'random selection'?  It seems to complicate the process pointlessly.  A user should be able to immediately understand that "vote all" means to vote for all the delegates you have approved and it should be one the same page.

Thanks for the feedback here... we do need to improve that.

what do you think of "half-life voting power" ? For instance , I vote with 1 million BTSX , after half a year or something , the votes automatically down to 0.5 million .  What's the point ? If big holder voted for a bad employee , and that voter forget his password of the wallet , that votes would've stayed there forever ....
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Offline theoretical

Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2014, 02:50:00 pm »

You should have an option for "Use extra votes as delegates recommend".  The reason I'm not using all my votes is simply that I've only had time to personally evaluate and upvote maybe 5-10 delegates who've made themselves known on the forums.

Appropriate topic of discussion for election day, heh.
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Offline fluxer555

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2014, 03:06:28 pm »

You should have an option for "Use extra votes as delegates recommend".  The reason I'm not using all my votes is simply that I've only had time to personally evaluate and upvote maybe 5-10 delegates who've made themselves known on the forums.

Appropriate topic of discussion for election day, heh.

+5%

Offline Thom

Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2014, 03:53:07 pm »
WOW!

I can see many more questions arising from this discussion about delegates and voting to add to those I've posted recently.

This really does strike at the heart of the DPoS model, as well as remind me of the reality TV shows like Survivor and Big Brother. Although the word "panopticon" is often used in the alt media to describe a self policing society and carries a negative connotation, it doesn't have to be so. Our community should be self policing / self monitoring to restrict evil doers from causing harm to others. And that requires a good system of communication and good sources of information.

Our BitShares community is shaping up to be a reflection of a global society, complete with those who promote positive and negative virtue. Let every member of this community work to build mechanisms to safeguard the positive virtue and eliminate the negative influences. That goes for devs, investors and marketers alike. We all share this ecosystem so lets not allow it to devolve where we're eating our own poo.

I'm glad BM is now quite aware of this discussion. I will be looking to him, toast and the other heavy weight thinkers in this community to address this, definitely before the BTSX client release at the end of the month but preferably ASAP.

Today is the first time reading this thread, and I find it quite disturbing.

The one good thing this turmoil has surfaced is that the DPoS system has weaknesses if we don't find a way to make voting for your desired delegates easier, but that taking control of a majority of delegates is rather hard.

I think this problem has been exacerbated by the language barrier. But that should serve as an important wake up call to BM and other devs as such issues will increase as people from other countries and languages start to use BitShares.
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Offline matt608

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2014, 09:25:35 pm »

what do you think of "half-life voting power" ? For instance , I vote with 1 million BTSX , after half a year or something , the votes automatically down to 0.5 million .  What's the point ? If big holder voted for a bad employee , and that voter forget his password of the wallet , that votes would've stayed there forever ....

Vote decay, interesting.  That would slowly weed out votes from long lost stake.

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Notification from the Chinese community about "sfinder"
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2014, 10:17:32 pm »
The decay shouldn't start immediately. People would be transaction spamming to make their votes fresh, whenever there's a close race. Maybe it should start in 6 months, and decay over the next 6 months

This would encourage delegates to do regular 'Campaigns' every half-year to get people to re-vote for them, and would provide shareholders with good summaries as to what they accomplished over the past term.