Author Topic: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining  (Read 36675 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2013, 12:13:42 pm »

On bitcoin system, miners contribute hash powers the DAC needs, than the DAC taxes by inflation from the share(coin) holders to purchase the hash power. All this process is a fair business.

In the case of Transactions as POS´╝îI am worrying whether there will be a rational issue Model.

Though, I really appreciate your effort on the thinking of all the Merged Mining, vesting, proposing decentralization, etc.

May you make it.

Coins have already been issued via mining if you want to call that rational. 


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Offline td services

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2013, 04:41:22 pm »
Mining coins makes sense as a byproduct of a productive activity of a DAC, say providing encrypted wireless mesh networking bandwidth, or providing encrypted network storage space in a Tahoe-LAFS public cloud, but otherwise seems to be a senseless waste of resources. The mining aspect of Bitcoin didn't really make sense to me when I first learned about it (when it was at .10 USD), which kept me from being an early adopter at the time.

NXT has a proof of stake in development, but Mastercoin-Exodus and Bitshares have a much more professional organization as projects.

I've been through 4 different methods of coin distribution: Giveaway with huge amount held in reserve by originators- Ripple; Purchase during public offering with deadline, no cap limit - Mastercoin; Mining - Protoshares; and Public Offering with no deadline or capitalization limit posted - NXT. Of the 4, Mastercoin, with the simple purchase of shares with a set deadline and schedule of early adopter bonuses has been by far the best.

From this experience, I would favor methods including awarding bitshares to developers for work, IPOs with set deadlines or capitalization limits and bonuses for early participants, and additional creation and payment of bitshares such as providing useful computational work related to the purpose of the DAC, provision of storage space, or supplying network bandwidth. Dividends from the DAC may awarded according to Proof of Stake or maybe it would be preferable to just let the value of the shares appreciate to avoid creating a tax liability.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2013, 05:10:16 pm »
Can anyone find details on nxt proof of stake.


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Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2013, 05:14:11 pm »
Mining coins makes sense as a byproduct of a productive activity of a DAC, say providing encrypted wireless mesh networking bandwidth, or providing encrypted network storage space in a Tahoe-LAFS public cloud, but otherwise seems to be a senseless waste of resources. The mining aspect of Bitcoin didn't really make sense to me when I first learned about it (when it was at .10 USD), which kept me from being an early adopter at the time.

NXT has a proof of stake in development, but Mastercoin-Exodus and Bitshares have a much more professional organization as projects.

I've been through 4 different methods of coin distribution: Giveaway with huge amount held in reserve by originators- Ripple; Purchase during public offering with deadline, no cap limit - Mastercoin; Mining - Protoshares; and Public Offering with no deadline or capitalization limit posted - NXT. Of the 4, Mastercoin, with the simple purchase of shares with a set deadline and schedule of early adopter bonuses has been by far the best.

From this experience, I would favor methods including awarding bitshares to developers for work, IPOs with set deadlines or capitalization limits and bonuses for early participants, and additional creation and payment of bitshares such as providing useful computational work related to the purpose of the DAC, provision of storage space, or supplying network bandwidth. Dividends from the DAC may awarded according to Proof of Stake or maybe it would be preferable to just let the value of the shares appreciate to avoid creating a tax liability.

People who preferred Mastercoin were the ones who could buy in early. By giving these away directly you are setting up a system looking more identical and centralized like Mastercoin as well... When you only cater to people who have the money the coins will end up in the hands of not nearly as many people.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 05:18:19 pm by Pocket Sand »

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2013, 05:25:54 pm »
Mastercoin lacks liquidity and publicity of being a tradable coin.   It has inefficient price discovery because those early investors were in it for the long haul.  It is also hard for Chinese to participate in. 

All of that said a premine coin sold into existence like mastercoin secured by mining may be the best of all. 




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Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2013, 05:32:03 pm »
Well as I was lead to believe Mastercoin's main difference from Bitshares is that Bitshares is actually decentralized, but if it is being premined and distributed, that takes out basically the point of calling Bitshares truly decentralized.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2013, 05:41:55 pm »
All systems start out centralized including bitcoin and proto shares.   

Decentralized is all about control and is something that is achieved as a system matures. 

Without our vc funding which is centralized protoshares would not have raised enough money for us to deliver. 

Most major undertakings require centralization of capital.   I know no open source projects that did not start life centralized. 




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Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2013, 05:59:52 pm »
Bitcoins was in the least sense of the word: Centralized.
Satoshi developed the software over a year and a half and allowed other developers to aid him completely open source.

On the other hand you're talking about controlling the money supply.

So is the plan at the moment to begin like Mastercoins and have a sell off of coins from Invictus? If so will you be selling the coins relative to the market price of Protoshares?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2013, 06:01:46 pm »
No that is not our plan for bitshares because we do not need to raise capital for bts.


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Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2013, 06:06:43 pm »
Quote
All of that said a premine coin sold into existence like mastercoin secured by mining may be the best of all. 
No that is not our plan for bitshares because we do not need to raise capital for bts.


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So is bitshares at the moment still planned to be traditional mining for generation of new coins? I apologize I might have been thrown off by the thread's earlier discussion.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2013, 06:08:33 pm »
If theory in the OP holds it will be proof of stake where initial stake is determined by pts


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Offline phoenix

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2013, 06:10:27 pm »
How will new BTS come into existence after the initial release? Or will they all just be based from PTS?
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2013, 06:11:54 pm »
If proof of stake can work on its own then why would we need new coins.  I want to maximize bts value. 


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Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2013, 06:13:57 pm »
In that case do you still think you would offer dividends on Bitshares?

Phoenix: If you're interested read up on current Proof-of-Stake methods work to see how they distribute their coins, Peercoin is the largest by far right now.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 06:17:08 pm by Pocket Sand »

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & The End of Mining
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2013, 06:22:10 pm »
Dividends come from trx fees and would still exist. 


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