Author Topic: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched  (Read 10357 times)

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Offline pc

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2014, 07:54:54 pm »
Since dry run 1 is long over now I'm locking this thread. Please create a separate thread if you want to continue the discussion.
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Offline pc

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2014, 07:53:45 pm »
I thought the idea was that PTS was to be merged into BTS and the social consensus would be taken from BTS.. PTS serves no purpose now, why are you wasting your time on this? Stop making things confusing for newbies and let PTS die already.

There is no purpose for it. Apparently a few people must've bought up a lot of PTS cheap after it was declared dead by Bytemaster and now they won't shut up about resurrecting it so they can pump and dump it.

Stop the FUD. BM never declared PTS dead.
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Offline slacking

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2014, 06:01:31 pm »
I thought the idea was that PTS was to be merged into BTS and the social consensus would be taken from BTS.. PTS serves no purpose now, why are you wasting your time on this? Stop making things confusing for newbies and let PTS die already.

There is no purpose for it. Apparently a few people must've bought up a lot of PTS cheap after it was declared dead by Bytemaster and now they won't shut up about resurrecting it so they can pump and dump it.

Offline pc

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2014, 03:25:57 pm »
This has been discussed at length, for example here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11877.msg159905#msg159905

No need to crosspost the same arguments over and over again.
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Offline cryptillionaire

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2014, 03:17:38 pm »
I thought the idea was that PTS was to be merged into BTS and the social consensus would be taken from BTS.. PTS serves no purpose now, why are you wasting your time on this? Stop making things confusing for newbies and let PTS die already.

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2014, 02:46:44 pm »
If PTS dies so does 50% of the social contract. While AGS isn't liquid the community is. So it won't take long for future DAC developers to realize that half the share drop target is dead and the other half is in an unknown state in the community. So why bother? The BitShares toolkit requires zero payment to anyone for anything and the community imploded because of some dispute over sharedrops to itself.

This is what is going to happen. The new team here had a chance to create a perfect sharedrop vehicle, but instead chose to shoot itself in the foot.

I can't support a DPoS coin which is breaking the consensus. I would even go against it and would try to get this to fail as a test case of what not honouring the social consensus would do. Thankfully for you guys I am way too lazy  to pro actively do anything, so .... ;D

I have mostly BTS, some AGS and a few PTS from BM's return. A 10% sharedrop on my AGS wouldn't have made much of a difference in case anyone's thinking I am unhappy about that part.

Offline Riverhead

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2014, 04:09:18 am »

If the Social Consensus Software License died with Invictus than PTS doesn't need to honor it.



If the Social Consensus  died,   it is the perfect time PTS-DPOS to come with a new one.

And inspired by Stan's  'Think Bigger Pinky',- there is no better time to jump from 10% to 75% for the social consensus number.
To make the life easier for the future PTS share droppers, a slight kick down of the AGS percentage could be considered [say from 10% to 1.75% or so]...


If AGS doesn't add value, then it takes value.
So what value can AGS provide PTS?

None, whatsoever!
AGS - rubbish!
PTS extremely valuable! Priceless to be exact.

If PTS dies so does 50% of the social contract. While AGS isn't liquid the community is. So it won't take long for future DAC developers to realize that half the share drop target is dead and the other half is in an unknown state in the community. So why bother? The BitShares toolkit requires zero payment to anyone for anything and the community imploded because of some dispute over sharedrops to itself.

zerosum

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2014, 12:43:13 am »

If the Social Consensus Software License died with Invictus than PTS doesn't need to honor it.



If the Social Consensus  died,   it is the perfect time PTS-DPOS to come with a new one.

And inspired by Stan's  'Think Bigger Pinky',- there is no better time to jump from 10% to 75% for the social consensus number.
To make the life easier for the future PTS share droppers, a slight kick down of the AGS percentage could be considered [say from 10% to 1.75% or so]...


If AGS doesn't add value, then it takes value.
So what value can AGS provide PTS?

None, whatsoever!
AGS - rubbish!
PTS extremely valuable! Priceless to be exact.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 12:47:27 am by tonyk2 »

Offline roadscape

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2014, 12:37:20 am »
PTS could theoretically buy out AGS, if the AGS community (and future DAC devs) agreed to let it die.
But then someone (the AGS version of alphaBar) would step forward and claim that AGS must live on and must be honored.

Regardless..

If AGS doesn't add value, then it takes value.
So what value can AGS provide PTS?
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline Riverhead

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2014, 12:19:27 am »
The same reason anyone share drops. Community support. Also leading by example.

That said it would behoove AGS proponents in the community to give PTS a bye for everyone's, including their, good.

Offline roadscape

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2014, 12:12:51 am »
The social consensus serves to help in fairly bootstrapping new chains.
Stan (iirc) described it as a mailing list for free samples.

This is an upgrade to a well-established meta-chain.
I don't see how a redistribution of PTS benefits anyone (aside from AGS holders)
Especially when PTS is on its deathbed...
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline Riverhead

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2014, 11:00:51 pm »

So, not that my opinion means a whole lot (I also have zero legal training), it seems clear that, based on the below software license for the Bitshares Toolkit and the above Social Contract of Invictus:

 1) The Social Consensus Software License clearly states that anyone using the Invictus blockchain must give 10% PTS/AGS.  So for the social contract if the Bitshares blockchain is also considered the Invictus blockchain (Aug 2013 was before DPoS was a twinkle in Dan's eye) then PTS either allocates AGS 10% or is in violation of the social contract.

2) According to the Software License in the current Bitshares github repository PTS can use the toolkit legally (whatever that means in this context) without any requirement to give anyone anything.

This creates a bit of a paradox. If the Social Consensus Software License died with Invictus than PTS doesn't need to honor it. However, if it is the case that PTS doesn't need to honor it because it died with Invictus than PTS has no reason for being because the social consensus is dead. Or at least it would have no teeth.

So, um, ya. Given all that I feel since PTS is using the blockchain and wants future DACs to honor to Social Contract (i.e. taking the position it lives beyond Invictus' timely demise) than PTS needs to give AGS 10% of permanent allocation or be in violation of the Social Contract but not the software license.

Further more the Social Contract lives on, at least in spirit, as exampled by PLAY, MUSIC, and BTS.

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/blob/master/LICENSE.md

Code: [Select]
This is free and unencumbered software released into the public domain.
Anyone is free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or distribute this software, either in source code form or as a compiled binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any means.
In jurisdictions that recognize copyright laws, the author or authors of this software dedicate any and all copyright interest in the software to the public domain. We make this dedication for the benefit of the public at large and to the detriment of our heirs and successors. We intend this dedication to be an overt act of relinquishment in perpetuity of all present and future rights to this software under copyright law.
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
For more information, please refer to http://unlicense.org/
 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 11:09:21 pm by Riverhead »

Offline Riverhead

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2014, 10:30:42 pm »
Cool thanks Tony. I'll give this A read after dinner.

Offline pc

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2014, 05:46:55 pm »
Added download link for windows wallet.
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sumantso

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2014, 07:58:44 am »
Some of the ideas proposed here are worthy of discussion for a separate DAC. These discussions should also serve as an indication of the difficulty in reaching agreement across multiple stakeholders when arbitrarily dividing or combining assets. PTS is one of the 2 prongs of the social consensus, and the stakeholders represented by each demographic (AGS and PTS) should not be tampered with. Both demographics are benefactors of DPoS (not just AGS), and this is why the treatment of the PTS upgrade as a "new DAC" is fundamentally inaccurate. As an example, if AGS holders decided to create a liquid AGS on a DPoS blockchain, it would be irrational to demand that PTS be sharedropped in the new AGS chain.

Yeah, lets all make our own chain and hope somebody sharedrops on it :-\

Anyways, you have to honour the social concensus and reserve at least 10% for AGS. Or you can boldly declare you're going to break it. Would be a an ideal starting point for a supposedly sharedrop vehicle.