Author Topic: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.  (Read 16810 times)

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Offline Bitty

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2015, 06:50:05 am »
I'am AGS holder and I feel more and more stupid every day for investing in DACs (BitShares) development. I was attracted by VOTE DAC, and other future DACs. To be perfectly clear I invested after Feb 28. and I didn't get any BTS. I know I will, but then again, the same amount will be distributed to pre Feb 28 investor (again). It seems that everybody try to forget ('late') AGS donors. I feel pain in my stomach every time I read about BTS and come here for news.

I am a BIG late AGS donor and so are my mother, brother, wife and son.  We got a much better scale factor than as early donors.   From that we have shares in BTS, PLAY, MUSIC, PTS, Sparkle, (VOTE, DNS) and TBD.   I feel excitement and great expectations.

:)

Hi Stan

Did you already received the BTS you were entitled to from the merger of VOTE/DNS and PTS?

thanks

Offline Stan

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2015, 05:10:43 pm »
I'am AGS holder and I feel more and more stupid every day for investing in DACs (BitShares) development. I was attracted by VOTE DAC, and other future DACs. To be perfectly clear I invested after Feb 28. and I didn't get any BTS. I know I will, but then again, the same amount will be distributed to pre Feb 28 investor (again). It seems that everybody try to forget ('late') AGS donors. I feel pain in my stomach every time I read about BTS and come here for news.

I am a BIG late AGS donor and so are my mother, brother, wife and son.  We got a much better scale factor than as early donors.   From that we have shares in BTS, PLAY, MUSIC, PTS, Sparkle, (VOTE, DNS) and TBD.   I feel excitement and great expectations.

:)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 06:06:12 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline dritz3r

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2015, 04:51:54 pm »
I'am AGS holder and I feel more and more stupid every day for investing in DACs (BitShares) development. I was attracted by VOTE DAC, and other future DACs. To be perfectly clear I invested after Feb 28. and I didn't get any BTS. I know I will, but then again, the same amount will be distributed to pre Feb 28 investor (again). It seems that everybody try to forget ('late') AGS donors. I feel pain in my stomach every time I read about BTS and come here for news.

Offline testz

Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2015, 11:21:55 am »
Is there anybody that can help importing the PTS wallet key into the latest OSX bitshares client?
The balance keeps on being 0.5 BTS…..

You can import whole wallet.dat as described here http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares/Howto
It's instruction for BitShares but for PTS-DPOS all stay same.

Offline Bitty

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2015, 05:20:51 am »
Is there anybody that can help importing the PTS wallet key into the latest OSX bitshares client?
The balance keeps on being 0.5 BTS…..

merockstar

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2014, 11:29:54 pm »
The question of whether or not PTS is a good sharedrop target for future devs probably comes down to a question of whether or not BTS would make a better sharedrop target.

In my opinion, the answer to that question depends on whether or not upcoming DACs will view themselves as competitors to BTS or not. Especially if some upcoming DACs end up not using the BTS toolkit and something other than DPOS for security.

If they're distinct enough, like PLAY and MUSIC, to not feel threatened by the existence of BTS, then I think BTS is a better sharedrop target because it includes AGS and all the early PTS holders from before the giant sell off, not to mention all the peeps who just got in on this from the recent marketing pushes.

However, if BTS is not deemed a suitable sharedrop target, then I see some developers maybe looking to PTS for this. But that depends on the goals of the developers of PTS too.

PTS was simple before going DPOS. A proof of work coin, just like Bitcoin, it's sole purpose, it's raison d'etre was to be sharedropped upon. Fair enough.

Now PTS has DPOS, so it's ambitions depend on the what the shareholders want done with it, as well as the devs.

This means, that they might end up marketing it as a deflationary currency (no longer exclusively just a sharedrop target). They might end up adding new features in the future that obfuscates the true purpose of PTS. PTS may gain value for reasons other than sharedropping, in which case the arguments for it being a valid sharedrop target wouldn't be as strong as they previously were.

With so many people selling off, I feel like PTS has to reestablish itself as a sharedrop coin if it wants to be taken seriously as such.

Or, future developers might just say "this is too complicated, screw it." Make their own sharedrop token and distribute it months before their DAC, then let the token die after serving it's purpose. Or come up with a different, unforeseen system of distribution all together.

So the way I see it, whether PTS is used as a sharedrop target or not depends largely on how it's marketed, and how it's received by DACs in the near future. Have the Devs said anything much about their intentions for PTS?

I very much support the idea of a deflationary coin. I would buy a coin that's marketed just for that. I'm not sure if I want to buy PTS for that if it's not being marketed specifically for that feature though.

I very much support the idea of a sharedrop target. If the coin's made for that and has established a precedent. OLD PTS had that precedent, and the corresponding holders. New PTS has to come up with a way to re-ingratiate itself in people's minds as a sharedrop target.

If it were aiming for either of these benefits exclusively PTS would be a no brainer, but as things currently stand the future of PTS is really hazy. That's why the decision of how much I want to focus on buying PTS is really giving me a hard time.

Too many "what if's" where PTS is concerned, and I'm having trouble making sense of it.

Offline ekremboz1

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2014, 01:22:52 pm »
I have understood correctly you think PTS dumping coin

Offline biophil

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 11:28:59 pm »
Using this logic, PTS & AGS is already 'included' in the Music DAC (at 35%),  thus sharedropping on the Music DAC would achieve the ends of getting hold of PTS holders.

It would but not BTS holders.

BTS covers the full spectrum.

The problem is that nobody in their right mind would sharedrop on BTS (I know, PLAY and Sparkle just did; that's because they were founded by community members).

This is why:

I know there are a lot around here who disagree with me (Stan being one of them), but I expect that sharedropping large quantities on a functioning coin is unlikely to be effective. If I were launching a coin, I would never sharedrop on BTS because I would expect BTS holders to claim their sharedrop, sell it, and put the money back into BTS. People hold BTS (or any other coin) because they believe it's the best place for their money; why would you expect them to suddenly change their minds and keep a stake in your little upstart, especially since you're likely attempting to compete with them?

People around here like to talk about good sharedrop targets being ones with strong network effects, but a strong network effect may also be an indicator of tribalism and xenophobia (see the Nxt community for extreme examples of this), which will only lead to dumping.
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sumantso

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2014, 11:45:54 am »
Using this logic, PTS & AGS is already 'included' in the Music DAC (at 35%),  thus sharedropping on the Music DAC would achieve the ends of getting hold of PTS holders.

It would but not BTS holders.

BTS covers the full spectrum.

Offline bigt

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2014, 09:56:10 am »
BTS holders will have an interest in any DAC that is a good proposal and BTS will be a large variety of types of interest, so would seem to be the most ideal.
There is a case to be made for Sharedropping on BTS also, I just feel the case for Sharedropping on PTS is more compelling.

By dint of the inflation, PTS is already included in BTs. As such, sharedropping on BTS gets hold of everybody - BTS, PTS & AGS.

Using this logic, PTS & AGS is already 'included' in the Music DAC (at 35%),  thus sharedropping on the Music DAC would achieve the ends of getting hold of PTS holders. However this would only capture PTS holders at the time of those snapshots - PTS is designed to be liquid.


My view is that third party developers would be better served getting a snapshot of PTS holders at a future date. This would better reflect PTS holders with an active interest in third party DACs now, and would enable others interested in getting a stake in a new DAC early to do so in the cleanest manner.


In the end of the day it's a voluntary arrangement, all anyone can do is make the argument. It will be for third party developers to decide.

sumantso

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2014, 10:22:50 pm »
BTS holders will have an interest in any DAC that is a good proposal and BTS will be a large variety of types of interest, so would seem to be the most ideal.
There is a case to be made for Sharedropping on BTS also, I just feel the case for Sharedropping on PTS is more compelling.

By dint of the inflation, PTS is already included in BTs. As such, sharedropping on BTS gets hold of everybody - BTS, PTS & AGS.

Offline bigt

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2014, 08:42:11 pm »
You could buy 1% for 15.3 BTC..
I don't see 10m PTS sell orders at 150 sat or less on the exchanges. There is very little trading or volume at these prices, (which is understandable given (a) it's a bear market for all cryptocurrencies and (b) the uncertainty surrounding PTS). Based on current activity levels, a buy order of 5 BTC at 150 sat would struggle to get filled, let alone 15 BTC. Majority of PTS holders appear to be holding.


BTS holders will have an interest in any DAC that is a good proposal and BTS will be a large variety of types of interest, so would seem to be the most ideal.
There is a case to be made for Sharedropping on BTS also, I just feel the case for Sharedropping on PTS is more compelling.


PTS is a gamble and might just create whales..
Not sure how PTS is any more susceptible to whales than any other crypto-currency.


Offline bigt

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2014, 08:07:24 pm »
why do you feel that AGS holders would be less likely to have an active interest in any given new DAC than PTS holders?

I think many AGS holders will have an active interest however PTS has the advantage of being a more liquid market. PTS holders that no longer have an active interest in new DACs can easily cash out and be replaced by others with a greater interest.


I do think there is value in Sharedropping on all three groups (BTS, PTS and AGS). I just feel PTS has the most compelling case. I don't quite follow the argument that suggests PTS should be killed off.



Offline davidpbrown

Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2014, 05:47:16 pm »
  • PTS - 'Liquid' investors. By this I mean, the majority of PTS holders will have an active interest in investing in Third Party DACs, right here and now. At the time of your snapshot, a large portion of PTS will have a very active interest in your DAC.

The price of PTS right now makes me cynical about the spread of holders. You could buy 1% for 15.3 BTC.. I've not looked at the depth on the sell side, so perhaps would be more but still.

BTS holders will have an interest in any DAC that is a good proposal and BTS will be a large variety of types of interest, so would seem to be the most ideal. PTS is a gamble and might just create whales.. that can be useful too, especially if those are still core ye olde dev types.
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merockstar

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Re: To buy or not to buy PTS, that is the question.
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2014, 05:37:50 pm »
I usually only check these threads to keep abreast of major Bitshares announcements however I've felt compelled to post on the recent PTS developments.


First off, I'm really happy that PTS has been upgraded to DPOS. The old wallet was a pain to use! I look forward to an OSX release of the new wallet to get my teeth into.


Secondly, I have a message for Third Party Developers:
  • Sharedropping onto PTS is the perfect launchpad for a third party DAC.
  • People like me hold PTS for the sole purpose of getting a stake in new, exciting, innovative DACs.
  • If you wish to target investors and early adopters that will champion the best new DACs, look to PTS.
  • People like me will look to invest in your DAC and stick around for the long haul
  • If your DAC has wider crypto appeal, you will see this will be reflected in the trade price of PTS around the time of your snapshot. Some see this as a negative. However it is the free market responding to the perceived utility of your DAC. The price spike and related interest will only serve to promote your offering to a wider audience.
To my mind there are 3 demographics you may wish to consider Sharedropping to:
  • BTS - holders will be primarily using the BTSX/ VOTE/ DNS offering. They may have an interest in your DAC. But for the majority this interest will be incidental to the main purpose of them holding BTS.
  • AGS - Founder investors, who again may have an interest in your DAC.
  • PTS - 'Liquid' investors. By this I mean, the majority of PTS holders will have an active interest in investing in Third Party DACs, right here and now. At the time of your snapshot, a large portion of PTS will have a very active interest in your DAC.
The beauty of PTS is that should I fall in love with your new DAC, cash out of PTS and go all-in on your new venture - I will be replaced by fresh blood looking to invest in new Third Party DACs.


This is just my perspective and an insight into why I feel PTS is a tremendous and unique proposition in the Bitshares landscape. I hope it not only sticks around but grows stronger.

welcome out of lurker status and thanks for your perspective.

why do you feel that AGS holders would be less likely to have an active interest in any given new DAC than PTS holders?