The end of POW approaches...

[arhag]

Actually miners don't have a say in what the community / market adopts.   The problem is there is no means to reach a consensus on the upgrade thus everyone is stuck.

Couldn't the Bitcoin devs create a hard fork that allowed BTC holders to vote with their stake on any arbitrary proposal submitted to the blockchain? This is a fairly benign update that the miners may not object to upgrading to. Actually, there is no need for a hard fork. That can all be done off-chain with a recent snapshot. With that in place BTC holders have a mechanism to reach consensus on any future hard forks...

That said I think I agree with your statement here:

Bitcoin will never switch faster than market whales move.   Especially considering how vastly different it would be and they wouldn't have all of our features. 

Or at the very least I fool myself into believing that statement since I want it to be true.

[donkeypong]

There was a thread on Reddit /r/Bitcoin the other day referencing Roger Ver's tweet or posting that he'd been denied a U.S. visa to travel to the Miami conference. (Personally, as much as I respect what Roger Ver did, he basically said he didn't need the U.S. anymore and now he's whining that they won't let him back in when he does need it. Anyway, my opinion is irrelevant.) I mention this here because the comments on that thread really surprised me. Bruce Fenton weighed in regularly on RV's behalf, which was predictable. But while a year or two ago, 100% of the comments would have been blindly in favor of Roger Ver, Bruce Fenton, and Bitcoin, nearly half of the comments there were negative or questioning.

My point: Plenty of people are supportive of Bitcoin and its icons. But there may be fewer 'blind' supporters than we think. A one year bear market + all these scandals is taking a toll. People are willing to question some things now. And that's healthy.

[bytemaster]

I am probably missing something but do we want bitcoin to become POS or DPOS instead of POW? If that happens then undoubtedly nothing could compete with bitcoin and our investment in BTS wouldn't lose it's value? I personally would like bitcoin to remain POW and steadily all bitcoin whales move away from bitcoin by injecting their cash to BTS rather than Bitcoin to switch to DPOS and we lose our competitive advantage..

Bitcoin will never switch faster than market whales move.   Especially considering how vastly different it would be and they wouldn't have all of our features.

The decision to upgrade belongs to bitcoin miners not bitcoin holders.  Miners have erected a barrier to entry they won’t give up – the need for huge warehouses full of global warming hardware. BTC miners’ competitive edge is their Darwinian ability to win a global warming device arms race.  If miners adopt DPOS, they lose that competitive edge to others better suited to compete in the new arena.  Under DPOS, people skilled at attracting voters would have the advantage.  It’s like asking soccer players to deliberately change the rules for who wins the World Cup to be a chess match instead of an athletic tournament.  A different skill set is required and athletes are unlikely to win a chess competition.  So they will keep the rules set to require physical skills so they can continue to win as long as possible.

Actually miners don't have a say in what the community / market adopts.   The problem is there is no means to reach a consensus on the upgrade thus everyone is stuck.

[Stan]

I am probably missing something but do we want bitcoin to become POS or DPOS instead of POW? If that happens then undoubtedly nothing could compete with bitcoin and our investment in BTS wouldn't lose it's value? I personally would like bitcoin to remain POW and steadily all bitcoin whales move away from bitcoin by injecting their cash to BTS rather than Bitcoin to switch to DPOS and we lose our competitive advantage..

Bitcoin will never switch faster than market whales move.   Especially considering how vastly different it would be and they wouldn't have all of our features.

The decision to upgrade belongs to bitcoin miners not bitcoin holders.  Miners have erected a barrier to entry they won’t give up – the need for huge warehouses full of global warming hardware. BTC miners’ competitive edge is their Darwinian ability to win a global warming device arms race.  If miners adopt DPOS, they lose that competitive edge to others better suited to compete in the new arena.  Under DPOS, people skilled at attracting voters would have the advantage.  It’s like asking soccer players to deliberately change the rules for who wins the World Cup to be a chess match instead of an athletic tournament.  A different skill set is required and athletes are unlikely to win a chess competition.  So they will keep the rules set to require physical skills so they can continue to win as long as possible.

[Empirical1.1]

We could stand pat and see Litecoin fly by us. POW is dead.

Well the most amazing thing is half of Bitcoiners agree with you.

A poll in the main discussion area, titled 'should Bitcoin modify to POW + POS' has 2500 views and 48% of Bitcoiners saying YES.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=914842.0

When half of Bitcoin thinks POW is flawed and in need of a POS based modification...

The end of POW may be closer than even I thought...

How many of those "yes" votes are coming from people who are actually POS or DPOS enthusiasts and only went to bitcointalk to vote because it was linked to from their own forum? I am one.

Some perhaps, but the vote is fairly consistent with the trend I'm seeing in other threads and Bitcoin posts. There's some consensus that POW is seriously flawed from a centralisation and cost POV. This wasn't the case 9 months+ ago. There's a real psychological shift starting to happen imo.

[oldman]

I am probably missing something but do we want bitcoin to become POS or DPOS instead of POW? If that happens then undoubtedly nothing could compete with bitcoin and our investment in BTS wouldn't lose it's value? I personally would like bitcoin to remain POW and steadily all bitcoin whales move away from bitcoin by injecting their cash to BTS rather than Bitcoin to switch to DPOS and we lose our competitive advantage..

Bitcoin will never switch faster than market whales move.   Especially considering how vastly different it would be and they wouldn't have all of our features.

This - POW is an uncanny fit for TPTB.

At scale only large corps, hedgies, banks and govs will be able to mine and will therefore eventually control the entire network.

POW is merely a replacement for regulation in the next evolution of the finance sector; I would be very surprised if POW ever dies.

This is why I think BTC is in for a few huge pumps as corps -> hedge funds -> sov wealth -> banks -> govs jump on the train.

As soon as black/white addresses/coins are mandated it will become obvious that BTC/POW is a sort of viral trojan horse being unleashed on the world.

This is also why BTS is so critical - BTS can actually accomplish what BTC only pays lip service to.

BTC and BTS are going to be an epic David and Goliath story...

[mf-tzo]

Bitcoin will never switch faster than market whales move.   Especially considering how vastly different it would be and they wouldn't have all of our features.

Ok cool. fair enough..

[bytemaster]

I am probably missing something but do we want bitcoin to become POS or DPOS instead of POW? If that happens then undoubtedly nothing could compete with bitcoin and our investment in BTS wouldn't lose it's value? I personally would like bitcoin to remain POW and steadily all bitcoin whales move away from bitcoin by injecting their cash to BTS rather than Bitcoin to switch to DPOS and we lose our competitive advantage..

Bitcoin will never switch faster than market whales move.   Especially considering how vastly different it would be and they wouldn't have all of our features. 

[mf-tzo]

I am probably missing something but do we want bitcoin to become POS or DPOS instead of POW? If that happens then undoubtedly nothing could compete with bitcoin and our investment in BTS wouldn't lose it's value? I personally would like bitcoin to remain POW and steadily all bitcoin whales move away from bitcoin by injecting their cash to BTS rather than Bitcoin to switch to DPOS and we lose our competitive advantage..

[donkeypong]

I seem to recall that at one recent conference, most attendees said the same thing. PoS is proven now. POW is wasteful and unneeded, plus it constantly dilutes the value.

[onceuponatime]

We could stand pat and see Litecoin fly by us. POW is dead.

Well the most amazing thing is half of Bitcoiners agree with you.

A poll in the main discussion area, titled 'should Bitcoin modify to POW + POS' has 2500 views and 48% of Bitcoiners saying YES.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=914842.0

When half of Bitcoin thinks POW is flawed and in need of a POS based modification...

The end of POW may be closer than even I thought...

How many of those "yes" votes are coming from people who are actually POS or DPOS enthusiasts and only went to bitcointalk to vote because it was linked to from their own forum? I am one.

[Empirical1.1]

We could stand pat and see Litecoin fly by us. POW is dead.

Well the most amazing thing is half of Bitcoiners agree with you.

A poll in the main discussion area, titled 'should Bitcoin modify to POW + POS' has 2500 views and 48% of Bitcoiners saying YES.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=914842.0

When half of Bitcoin thinks POW is flawed and in need of a POS based modification...

The end of POW may be closer than even I thought...

[donkeypong]

We could stand pat and see Litecoin fly by us. POW is dead.

[Empirical1.1]

Fantastic! I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.

If you're the 2nd best poker player in the world and you keep playing the best player you'll likely lose. However if you're a really bad player but you play someone even worse you'll be a winner.

Succeeding is not just about how good you are but how good your competition is.

Our competition has never been more weak, so BitShares relatively speaking has never been more strong than it is right now. So I am maxed out on BitShares again.

As usual, we're not in a great position to attack when an opportunity presents itself A few internal issues, still waiting for a website and hopefully 1.0 will be here soon, but

Everything is in play right now. Everything is possible.

With our relative rise will come a spotlight, a spotlight that can counteract a year of bad marketing in a month by explaining BitShares to the world. If LTC drops off the map it will leave a weak Bitcoin hanging & POW very lonely in the top 10.  There we will be the next decentralised alternative in line for the throne. (Our low inflation & the nature of BitAssets mean we will be far superior to them when we get our shot.)

In crisis is opportunity. As the title of the thread says 'The end of POW approaches...'

[Empirical1.1]

Litecoin seems to be having a bad day might dip below $90 million soon.

PayCoin is also falling hard, was hoping that was just a flash in the pan.

So hopefully we'll be no.4 again soon with a weak POW coming to us.

NXT being strong is actually not bad for our case, (The end of POW) provided we are much stronger.