Author Topic: NuBits is structured like a Ponzi Scheme [BLOG POST]  (Read 9777 times)

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sumantso

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2015, 06:06:37 pm »
BTCtalk is back up! Take cover!!!

Offline theoretical

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2015, 06:10:04 pm »
I disagree with this quote from the blog post:

Quote from: bytemaster
    The US government has no realistic means of ever paying off [its] debt...

A country can always inflate its way out of debt.

In other words, the national debt is in nominal terms.  I.e. it is a certain number of dollars.  Bondholders have no guarantee about the real value of the goods and services represented by this nominal debt.
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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2015, 06:10:40 pm »
Great article... its not FUD. It's a warning to nubits and shines light on bitshares

Offline svk

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2015, 06:16:12 pm »
Very good article despite the sensationalist headline, the part about the solvency of the system in the current bear-market is interesting, and the comparison at the end really hammers home how brilliant collateralized market-pegged assets are! I just wish everyone else would wake up to it..

 +5%
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Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2015, 06:18:44 pm »
 +5% Great Article

I would say the timing is bad as we haven't made many friends at NXT and the last article was Bitcoin negative imo.

From the description though, NuBits is a classic ponzi and BM is probably one of the few that can clearly articulate that. So while the title sounds sensationalist, it is justified & we'd be doing a disservice to crypto not to warn people about this.

Also when it fails, it will look bad on all BitCurrencies unless we both warn people about it and in the midst of the controversy this creates now, take the opportunity to explain how BitUSD works differently to a wider audience.

Offline davidpbrown

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2015, 06:19:18 pm »
I disagree with this quote from the blog post:

Quote from: bytemaster
    The US government has no realistic means of ever paying off [its] debt...

That might be technically correct but you can bet that creditors consider the reality that what is owed is real wealth..a little flex in the number that is money is something, trying to get off with not paying is another and the reality of the US economy should give everyone pause for thought.. the only issue that might keep the creditors at bay, is they have the inverse problem of overproduction relative to a world that cannot afford it. Both ends of the problem could come crashing down but it's more likely there will be a hard uncomfortable squeeze.
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Offline monsterer

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2015, 06:23:15 pm »
This is terrible, terrible PR. We don't need any more haters - I urge you to remove the word ponzi from the article.

In addition, I would suggest that you run all future blog posts via some kind of PR intermediary before you publish them to avoid mistakes like this in the future.
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Offline svk

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2015, 06:23:50 pm »
@bytemaster: response from "tomjoad" on nubits forum, post titled "Dan Larimer has once again resorted to name-calling as a substitute for effective marketing":

Quote
Title: NuBits is a Ponzi Scheme https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13246.05

Dan - We're not going to tarnish our communications by posting an aggressive rebuttal. Whatever shortcomings we privately think are ingrained as flaws in the BitShares design have remained silent out of respect for a fellow competitor in the cryptosphere. One of our core team members, Ben Rossi, expressed diplomatic admiration for BitShares in a recent podcast.

There are several mechanisms planned to reduce the supply of NuBits one day, including variable transaction fees and NBT-for-NSR burning. Many of your own community members in particular have changed their view on NuBits with that last option. We'd love to read about it in your blog sometime, preferably without the "ponzi" label that was clearly included to increase your page views.

We know it must be tempting to take drastic action when your share price is down heavily on the day, after making so many promises to your community. Let's try and build up an ecosystem together rather than creating sensationalist headlines that don't contribute in the slightest to our shared goal of digital currency development.

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/dan-larimer-has-once-again-resorted-to-name-calling-as-a-substitute-for-effective-marketing/1081
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Offline suwoder

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2015, 06:31:13 pm »
This is terrible, terrible PR. We don't need any more haters - I urge you to remove the word ponzi from the article.

In addition, I would suggest that you run all future blog posts via some kind of PR intermediary before you publish them to avoid mistakes like this in the future.

 :P :P

Offline btswildpig

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2015, 06:39:14 pm »
This is terrible, terrible PR. We don't need any more haters - I urge you to remove the word ponzi from the article.

In addition, I would suggest that you run all future blog posts via some kind of PR intermediary before you publish them to avoid mistakes like this in the future.

 >:(  my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
 8)
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2015, 06:44:42 pm »
>:(  my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
 8)

You worry BitShares won't double down and beat them at their own game again?

Another more positive bitcointalk thread notes the uptick in Bitshares assets.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923698.msg10140714 to which I've suggested it is a good place for sheltering in a storm. btw what's happening with Bitcoin!?.. I've lost track not having so many now.
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2015, 06:48:05 pm »
>:(  my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
 8)

You worry BitShares won't double down and beat them at their own game again?

Another more positive bitcointalk thread notes the uptick in Bitshares assets.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923698.msg10140714 to which I've suggested it is a good place for sheltering in a storm. btw what's happening with Bitcoin!?.. I've lost track not having so many now.

Chinese lunar new year is coming , big miner have to settle their debt on their factory .
Maybe that's the reason .......
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Offline Vizzini

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2015, 06:48:29 pm »
Couldn't some of this blog-writing energy be better spent...gee, I don't know, maybe returning CoinBase's call?


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Offline bytemaster

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2015, 06:50:44 pm »
Before going any further I would like to clarify that I have no evidence to suggest the people behind NuBits and NuShares have intent to defraud. This article merely aims to highlight the structural problems with NuBits as I see them. Some people have suggested that I should not use the phrase “Ponzi Scheme” because it could be offensive, but that would merely make me complicit and harm those who read this blog. Until new information surfaces that proves that NuBits has at least 100% reserve which are secure against theft, fraud, or misappropriation then I will maintain the fully objective, non-FUD, opinion that a NuBit is at best an unsecured IOU from unknown issuers. It only becomes a Ponzi scheme once NuBits is forced to print new NuBits to pay interest on old NuBits. They are not currently doing this, but due to the fractional reserve, naked-shorting that I believe is being practiced it is inevitable. Even Ponzi started out with honest intentions.

It is my sincere hope that the fans of NuBits can identify and clarify any misunderstandings in this post. If you have identified the secret to high-liquidity, low-risk, pegged crypto-currencies then it is something I want to understand and share with my readers.
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2015, 06:52:36 pm »
Before going any further I would like to clarify that I have no evidence to suggest the people behind NuBits and NuShares have intent to defraud. This article merely aims to highlight the structural problems with NuBits as I see them. Some people have suggested that I should not use the phrase “Ponzi Scheme” because it could be offensive, but that would merely make me complicit and harm those who read this blog. Until new information surfaces that proves that NuBits has at least 100% reserve which are secure against theft, fraud, or misappropriation then I will maintain the fully objective, non-FUD, opinion that a NuBit is at best an unsecured IOU from unknown issuers. It only becomes a Ponzi scheme once NuBits is forced to print new NuBits to pay interest on old NuBits. They are not currently doing this, but due to the fractional reserve, naked-shorting that I believe is being practiced it is inevitable. Even Ponzi started out with honest intentions.

It is my sincere hope that the fans of NuBits can identify and clarify any misunderstandings in this post. If you have identified the secret to high-liquidity, low-risk, pegged crypto-currencies then it is something I want to understand and share with my readers.

 +5% +5% +5%

Finally , for once , I don't want to shut you up .
Just this once   :P
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.