Author Topic: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?  (Read 2902 times)

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Offline clayop

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 04:29:42 pm »
NuBits is more easily accessible at low spreads on centralized exchanges. That's all there is to it.

In order to be competitive, we need to get market makers on exchanges.

Yes totally agree with this. I just asked some of my friends and they answered 1) accessible on exchanges 2) with small spread.
We need market makers who run bots on centralized exchanges. Maybe another opportunity for paid delegate?

Sounds like an opportunity for *anyone who wants to make money*. We don't need to PAY people to make money, and we don't need to support artificial walls which will disappear when we pull the plug but prevent real market makers in the meantime.

Another problem is that bitUSD/BTC is only trading on one exchange.

Clearly given the length of time BitUSD has been trading the opportunity/profit motive is not currently there to sufficiently incentivise market makers.

I'm in favour of getting the market ticking over if necessary so it looks more active on bter.

Having said that ther is 20 BTC volume on there today which isn't terrible.

I see at least three MM bots participating on bter. Maybe I will open source mine so we get more people there

Nice. BTW why btc/bitusd pair is in btc market on bter? It should be in USD market or the order should be reversed.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2015, 04:48:42 pm »
Note that total NuBits supply does not represent NuBits in circulation.   I would venture to guess that we have more REAL USD in circulation than NuBits has.   After all a large percentage of NuBits are held by market makers themselves.   

This is yet another example where our efforts to remain pure and NOT manipulate the numbers hurt us.   

If you want to help increase our ranking on coin market cap, short BitUSD to yourself.  This will increase USD supply, give you a cut of USD yield, and not expose you to any extra risk (still net LONG BTS) as long as you cover before any margin call.   Every time you cover and re-short to yourself you also increase our volume. 

Any observer would recognize that those trades are MEANINGLESS noise, but to the casual observer and commentator being lazy they will simply quote the actual volume and market cap of BitUSD.

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Offline theoretical

Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2015, 04:59:57 pm »
Any observer would recognize that those trades are MEANINGLESS noise

Only if you do the short and long side from the same wallet with balances that are obviously connected to each other.  If you wanted to make it look like real volume, you could do the short / long side from different wallets.

I should also point out (roughly speaking) shorting to yourself is nominally [1] profitable if your shorts are paying less interest than average outstanding shorts.

[1] In terms of numerically increasing the number of BTS you own.
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Offline theoretical

Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 05:04:40 pm »
Nice. BTW why btc/bitusd pair is in btc market on bter?  It should be in USD market

Neither pair member is USD, so it shouldn't.  Putting it in the BTC market category makes sense (until they have enough BitUSD markets to justify a separate category for them!)

or the order should be reversed.

The reason for the order being the way it is, is because most exchanges quote BTC / USD prices in dollars per BTC.  So if Bitcoin is trading at $217 USD and $213 BitUSD, you can easily compare the prices because they are on the same scale.
BTS- theoretical / PTS- PZxpdC8RqWsdU3pVJeobZY7JFKVPfNpy5z / BTC- 1NfGejohzoVGffAD1CnCRgo9vApjCU2viY / the delegate formerly known as drltc / Nothing said on these forums is intended to be legally binding / All opinions are my own unless otherwise noted / Take action due to my posts at your own risk

Offline Pheonike

Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 05:10:25 pm »
Until we get a light weight web based wallet, our volume will be low. Most users don't want  to install anything more than an app. 

Offline Shentist

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2015, 06:05:12 pm »
if you think Nubits has more volumen you are not understanding their concept

look for an example on the daly volume of 1.995 million versus Nubits in existance of 2.239 millions

this is artifacel demand and has nothing to do with real demand. It will look nice, but for every serious investor it will tell you it is really dangerous to invest in it. You cannot say which part of it is real demand and which part is only market maker bots trading against each other.

i don't need a crypto FIAT system so i am not investing in them.

Offline fuzzy

Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2015, 07:30:15 pm »
NuBits is more easily accessible at low spreads on centralized exchanges. That's all there is to it.

In order to be competitive, we need to get market makers on exchanges.

Yes totally agree with this. I just asked some of my friends and they answered 1) accessible on exchanges 2) with small spread.
We need market makers who run bots on centralized exchanges. Maybe another opportunity for paid delegate?

Or we can have the bots available free of charge to anyone who wants to run them...


if you think Nubits has more volumen you are not understanding their concept

look for an example on the daly volume of 1.995 million versus Nubits in existance of 2.239 millions

this is artifacel demand and has nothing to do with real demand. It will look nice, but for every serious investor it will tell you it is really dangerous to invest in it. You cannot say which part of it is real demand and which part is only market maker bots trading against each other.

i don't need a crypto FIAT system so i am not investing in them.

This is precisely what I tell people.  It kind of sucks though to think that so many in our generation who are trying to walk away from the shackles of the current paradigm are walking right into a 2.0 version of it.
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Offline clayop

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2015, 07:31:27 pm »
NuBits is more easily accessible at low spreads on centralized exchanges. That's all there is to it.

In order to be competitive, we need to get market makers on exchanges.

Yes totally agree with this. I just asked some of my friends and they answered 1) accessible on exchanges 2) with small spread.
We need market makers who run bots on centralized exchanges. Maybe another opportunity for paid delegate?

Or we can have the bots available free of charge to anyone who wants to run them...

Yes I need one :D
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Offline oldman

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2015, 07:45:59 pm »
Note that total NuBits supply does not represent NuBits in circulation.   I would venture to guess that we have more REAL USD in circulation than NuBits has.   After all a large percentage of NuBits are held by market makers themselves.   

This is yet another example where our efforts to remain pure and NOT manipulate the numbers hurt us.   

If you want to help increase our ranking on coin market cap, short BitUSD to yourself.  This will increase USD supply, give you a cut of USD yield, and not expose you to any extra risk (still net LONG BTS) as long as you cover before any margin call.   Every time you cover and re-short to yourself you also increase our volume. 

Any observer would recognize that those trades are MEANINGLESS noise, but to the casual observer and commentator being lazy they will simply quote the actual volume and market cap of BitUSD.

Need a button for this in the full client. Enter amount to short, bot keeps rolling the trade over until stopped.

Offline bubble789

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 03:37:53 am »
How exactly do you short bitUSD to yourself?

Offline merlin0113

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2015, 03:54:51 am »
How exactly do you short bitUSD to yourself?

1.Creat short order→2.Set your APR higher than other short orders with the price limit under feed price or with no price limit→3.Sell BTS to eat the buy order first one order by one order to avoid any margin loss due to the transaction algorithm→4.Sell calculated amount BTS at the feed price.
Also, there is a possibility others sell BTS at the same time to fill your short order. But since you are wish to into a long BTS position so that's fine I think.

Offline bubble789

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2015, 03:58:07 am »
Ok thanks, i will try it after i upgrade the client to the latest one.

Offline merlin0113

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2015, 04:00:22 am »
Ok thanks, i will try it after i upgrade the client to the latest one.

I suggest you to do it in CNY market since you could short successfull with 0 interest right now.LOL

Offline bubble789

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2015, 04:03:54 am »
Alright, does matter which fiat currency you short into right?
Whats the average yield for cny atm?

Offline merlin0113

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Re: 2.2 mil vs. 36k, What is the problem?
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2015, 04:20:31 am »
Alright, does matter which fiat currency you short into right?
Whats the average yield for cny atm?

No difference at all when you short to yourself.
CNY is 1.51% which is higher than USD @0.98%, you can see here:

http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market