Forking bitshares

[liondani]

Looking forward to seeing this develop. I listened in on all sessions in mumble about this and the prospects are awesome. 

If you need a distribution center in Canada or for North America, the bunker has 64,000 sq/ft of space, much of which is currently available. Guarantee you no other distribution center will offer you EMP shielding for your components the way we can. 

Have you another link without a count-down? 
http://datasecuritynode.com/

[fuzzy]

Looking forward to seeing this develop. I listened in on all sessions in mumble about this and the prospects are awesome. 

If you need a distribution center in Canada or for North America, the bunker has 64,000 sq/ft of space, much of which is currently available. Guarantee you no other distribution center will offer you EMP shielding for your components the way we can. 

I'll try to help make a connection for you Data. 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Looking forward to seeing this develop. I listened in on all sessions in mumble about this and the prospects are awesome. 

If you need a distribution center in Canada or for North America, the bunker has 64,000 sq/ft of space, much of which is currently available. Guarantee you no other distribution center will offer you EMP shielding for your components the way we can. 

[yellowecho]

Dawn sounds like a fantastic project and I very much look forward to future collaborations! 

[fuzzy]

Why would you say the word fork? Bad way to start off.

Agreed, I don't see anything here that involves "forking"...?

I think it is a slight lack of understanding in terminology...nothing more

[nomoreheroes7]

Why would you say the word fork? Bad way to start off.

Agreed, I don't see anything here that involves "forking"...?

[d3adh3ad]

Why would you say the word fork? Bad way to start off.

[lovejoy]

Novena is awesome! Just going to drop this here: http://www.bunniestudios.com/

Maybe we can get bunnie to colab on this? I have no contacts personally just like to read about OS hardware stuff once in a while. 

That would be pretty epic!  Dawn may have all the resources, logistics and talent they currently need to execute such a plan.  However, bunniestudios also worked out a massively elegant supply chain by the sound of it, and are uniquely suited to peer review of such technology, so possibly another reason to connect with them.  Not my area of expertise though, so... I leave this to those with the bravery of metal and code.

[robrigo]

It was good to chat briefly on the mumble session, and hear about your vision.

I am a huge advocate of open source hardware and it seems incredible to have allies such as you in the field!
 
I have been following the work at Studio Kosagi: http://www.kosagi.com/  The Novena laptop in particular, quite a feat.  I'm sure you must be familiar... another talented crew to collaborate with.

Everything else has mostly been said.  I agree with fuzz that the importance of building a foundation on open hardware is key to our long term survival, and I see it as a huge priority.

And this...

The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.

Let's explore those possibilities!

Novena is awesome! Just going to drop this here: http://www.bunniestudios.com/

Maybe we can get bunnie to colab on this? I have no contacts personally just like to read about OS hardware stuff once in a while. 

[fuzzy]

Also, I would love to see a hardware solution for merchants to accept BitAssets!

If we still talking about working with any card processors, can we patch together a working POS system?
Something which allows people be able to 'charge' their own cards from a mobile wallet on their smart phone, a la Square, and be able to go out and spend those funds in their community where BitAssets are accepted.

This would be massively helpful in terms of grassroots adoption imo.
If there were a solution like this then we could raise a small army to work on merchant adoption with the knowledge that a solid system was in place to provide them with the tools they need.  I realize this is a huge undertaking and beyond hardware alone.

I suppose ElMato would be the one to work with on this once the mobile wallet is stable.

We are right in line bro.  I actually have talked to faddat and expressed interest in this as well. Nearly certain we will see it once their two other projects begin making money.

[lovejoy]

Also, I would love to see a hardware solution for merchants to accept BitAssets!

If we still talking about working with any card processors, can we patch together a working POS system?
Something which allows people be able to 'charge' their own cards from a mobile wallet on their smart phone, a la Square, and be able to go out and spend those funds in their community where BitAssets are accepted.

This would be massively helpful in terms of grassroots adoption imo.
If there were a solution like this then we could raise a small army to work on merchant adoption with the knowledge that a solid system was in place to provide them with the tools they need.  I realize this is a huge undertaking and beyond hardware alone.

I suppose ElMato would be the one to work with on this once the mobile wallet is stable.

[CLains]

Would be nice with a tl;dr here, maybe a short half a4 page on what this is, who is building it, what's going on

[carpet ride]

I'm very excited to see his proposal for hardware and other improvements.  However I might have missed this part - what is the plan for making the Dawn business arm of BTS into a profitable division in its own right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lovejoy]

It was good to chat briefly on the mumble session, and hear about your vision.

I am a huge advocate of open source hardware and it seems incredible to have allies such as you in the field!
 
I have been following the work at Studio Kosagi: http://www.kosagi.com/  The Novena laptop in particular, quite a feat.  I'm sure you must be familiar... another talented crew to collaborate with.

Everything else has mostly been said.  I agree with fuzz that the importance of building a foundation on open hardware is key to our long term survival, and I see it as a huge priority.

And this...

The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.

Let's explore those possibilities!

[faddat]

Okalie-dokalie. 

Let's deliver, then.  Please see new thread "Hardware Wallet"

[Rune]

Okay-- I'll put it another way-- Dawn plans to be 100% Libre in the GNU fashion about everything.  When we have to use closed components, we will work to eliminate them in future versions.  We know all too well that Open Source != Gratis.  Our intent with using the phrase Open Source is to signal to people that our code, etc are available and to let users know that they can and should participate in the production of both the hardware and software.   

To those who were talking about adding value re: a delegate-- yes, that's our intent.  I could have hardware wallets in people's hands lightning-fast.  I will only need some info from people here as to how they should be configured & what UX should be like. 

My offer of a forum was totally legit-- just say the word and I can have shiny discourse up and set for you all.  I do need to look at what the migration would be like, though....

Dawn is not a DAC yet.  Dawn is a DAC startup, a proto-DAC, an organization with aspirations of DAC-hood.  Excuse my overstatement.

Getting an "official" bitshares hardware wallet that's fully integrated with the bitshares full node and light client is really one of the biggest things we could get right now hardware wise. I'd suggest you research the different hardware wallet options and use your expertise to decide on which one is best to port, then turn that into a delegate proposal. Once you deliver and start selling the hardware wallet, you will have earned trust from the community and will likely get continued support for your delegate in whatever next step you wish to take, as long as it's something that benefits bitshares.

[robrigo]

Uh, I think I am using your forum for its intended purpose:

Collaboration. 

Your forum code-- the software running the forum-- it basically sucks.  Sorry, but that's the bottom line. 

I'm totally not trying to rag on the community here, though-- community is killer!

If you want to see where Bitsapphire (current team that took over maintenance of the forums) is at with the forum replacement, I would reach out to them in email. They post here occasionally.

Last I heard, they were building a custom solution to keep the SMF forum and a new discourse forum in sync with each other so anyone could use either forum and not miss a beat. This was months ago though.

[faddat]

Uh, I think I am using your forum for its intended purpose:

Collaboration. 

Your forum code-- the software running the forum-- it basically sucks.  Sorry, but that's the bottom line. 

I'm totally not trying to rag on the community here, though-- community is killer!

[faddat]

Okay-- I'll put it another way-- Dawn plans to be 100% Libre in the GNU fashion about everything.  When we have to use closed components, we will work to eliminate them in future versions.  We know all too well that Open Source != Gratis.  Our intent with using the phrase Open Source is to signal to people that our code, etc are available and to let users know that they can and should participate in the production of both the hardware and software.   

To those who were talking about adding value re: a delegate-- yes, that's our intent.  I could have hardware wallets in people's hands lightning-fast.  I will only need some info from people here as to how they should be configured & what UX should be like. 

My offer of a forum was totally legit-- just say the word and I can have shiny discourse up and set for you all.  I do need to look at what the migration would be like, though....

Dawn is not a DAC yet.  Dawn is a DAC startup, a proto-DAC, an organization with aspirations of DAC-hood.  Excuse my overstatement. 

[ag]

This is ridiculous. Dawn, please leave our forum alone. I think you are disrupting! maybe you want to steal our passwords!

[fuzzy]

If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet.

I searched and only finds things related to a btc miner named phoenix? could you provide a link please?

http://fenixer.org

More importantly BitShares is public domain software. I am being pedantic because if we're going to be living in this space we need to get our paradigm straight. Open source simply means the authors/owners are willing to show people the code and perhaps compile it themselves. It does not mean that it is free or open to community development. Open source software can have a number of different types of licenses attached to it. For example GNU source code is treated differently than Public Domain.

My concern is the perception that "Open Source" = "Free". If we want more people to open their source up for all to see we need to respect the license they have chosen.

Welcome Dawn. Was great chatting with you on the Mumble. I'm excited to see some of the features implemented in hardware. For example a big pain point we have now is indexing. If a hardware solution could optimize that it would be a huge win. The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.

Well-stated.  This is a very important distinction to be made thanks for doing it Riverhead.

You have it about right (for now).  Who knows where this will go in the future, but if it starts here we are looking at even more positive PR associated with our project and if they accept bitAssets (as they plan on doing) we are looking at bringing a lot of people to our ecosystem. 

If they are making money from a delegate, they are then able afford to offer discounts to those who pay with things like bitUSD.  We really need to do this...I can't express the important of them getting paid by BitShares...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Welcome Dawn! I listened to the mumble session where you introduced your project and it is a great project! Looking forward to it!

As I see it: Dawn would be a "normal company", not a DAC in the sense as BitShares or Bitcoin is a DAC. I define a system as a DAC that provides a "ledger based service" (updating account balances, (money), trading/exchange/bank, issuing lottery tickets etc.). The service Dawn wants to offer to customers is not a ledger based service (selling hardware). What Dawn wants (as far as I understood it) is to manage their company based on a public ledger (including: assign property/shareholder rights, sherholder voting, paying dividens etc.).  They could do this in two ways:
(1) Fork Bitshares to "Dawnshares" so that the native tokens of this DAC (Downshares) would represent the shares in the Dawn business (selling hardware).
(2) Issue a User Issued Asset and give it to the shareholders of the Dawn company.

(1) would be a lot of effort and has no advantages as I see it. BM mentioned one I can not recall right now.
(2) would be much more cost effective, would provide much more liquidity / more exposure to users of BitShares.

@faddat: Here are two articles about what the term DAC describes: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DAC/Crypto-Equity_Analysis_under_the_DAC_metaphor
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3901.0
The term "DAC" was inteded as an analogy to describe and analyze "crypto currencies" like Bitcoin (and BitShares). 
 

[santaclause102]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Welcome Dawn! I listened to the mumble session where you introduced your project and it is a great project! Looking forward to it!

As I see it: Dawn would be a "normal company", not a DAC in the sense as BitShares or Bitcoin are DACs. I define a system as a DAC that provides a "ledger based service" (updating account balances via a blockchain, (money), trading/exchange/bank based on a blockchain, issuing lottery tickets etc.). The service Dawn wants to offer to customers is not a ledger based service (selling hardware). What Dawn wants (as far as I understood it) is to manage their company based on a public ledger (including: assign property/shareholder rights, shareholder voting, paying dividens etc.).  They could do this in two ways:
(1) Fork Bitshares to "Dawnshares" so that the native tokens of this DAC (Downshares) would represent the shares in the Dawn business (selling hardware).
(2) Issue a User Issued Asset that is tracked on the BitShares blockchain and give it to the shareholders of the Dawn company. Here is a great by BM about user issued assets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzruOULgmng

(1) would be a lot of effort and has no advantages as I see it. BM mentioned one I can not recall right now.
(2) would be much more cost effective, could do everything (1) can (BM mentioned one thing it can't that I can't remember right now) and would provide much more liquidity / more exposure to users of BitShares.
One real difference is the security and maintainance: With (1) Dawn provides for it's own security and maintenance (security that transactions (sending Dawnshares, voting etc.) are not reversed and that trading shares and voting is always possible) and small Dawn shareholder would have to trust that the big Dawn shareholders are not colluding. With (2) Dawn externalizes security and maintenance to the BitShares network. (2) in that sense would be more neutral.
 
@faddat: Here are two articles about what the term DAC describes: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DAC/Crypto-Equity_Analysis_under_the_DAC_metaphor
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3901.0
The term "DAC" was intended as an analogy to describe and analyze "crypto currencies" like Bitcoin (and BitShares). 
 

[Riverhead]

More importantly BitShares is public domain software. I am being pedantic because if we're going to be living in this space we need to get our paradigm straight. Open source simply means the authors/owners are willing to show people the code and perhaps compile it themselves. It does not mean that it is free or open to community development. Open source software can have a number of different types of licenses attached to it. For example GNU source code is treated differently than Public Domain.

My concern is the perception that "Open Source" = "Free". If we want more people to open their source up for all to see we need to respect the license they have chosen.

Welcome Dawn. Was great chatting with you on the Mumble. I'm excited to see some of the features implemented in hardware. For example a big pain point we have now is indexing. If a hardware solution could optimize that it would be a huge win. The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.

[Akado]

If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet.

I searched and only finds things related to a btc miner named phoenix? could you provide a link please?

[fuzzy]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

1) how can we have a truly decentralized movement when we are forced to use hardware controlled by the current paradigm's corrupt power players?
Customized hardware significantly increases our versitility, utility,  partnership potential with other techs like maidsafe (what if we are the first DAC to work directly with maidsafe?), and resilience to attack.
Being first movers in this space also put us at significant advantage to all competitors.

2) I think faddat is confusing the term fork because they to my knowledge do not intend to actualky run their own DAC in terms of what we are doing here.  But they do plan on being a quasi-form of  decentralized autonomous company ...just more on the hardware programming side of the equation.
They hope to issue their UIA on bitshares' platform.

I dont think people yet comorehend just how huge this is for bitshares.  I assure you will, eventtually

[fuzzy]

Welcome faddat and Dawn!

Have you already planned the software side of your mesh networking support for Mammoth, or are you just planning to handle the hardware and make it capable of supporting any of the existing software projects?

Are you considering moving your stakeholder involvement platform to BitShares?

fuzzy, is the last mumble recording posted anywhere yet?

The project is open source to allow for anyone to develop on the software side but to my knowledge Dawn will be helping us with incorporating our software onto their platform.

Here is the raw version of the latest hangout:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13638.0

[sumantso]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

[Troglodactyl]

Welcome faddat and Dawn!

Have you already planned the software side of your mesh networking support for Mammoth, or are you just planning to handle the hardware and make it capable of supporting any of the existing software projects?

Are you considering moving your stakeholder involvement platform to BitShares?

fuzzy, is the last mumble recording posted anywhere yet?

[fuzzy]

If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet.

[Rune]

If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

[graffenwalder]

Dawn is a DAC dedicated to the goal of improving the world through technology.  We make open hardware and software, and support them with services.  We've much bigger plans than that, though, and I hope that you and others on this forum will get to be a part of that.  Here's our 1-year:

https://www.icloud.com/pages/AwBWCAESEDEArRhp07qAQzyUX35J3RYaKq4Cs5B2PyOQ26G9ikeKh_51C2q0toR7LjbAdGp_AgbdR_TdWJr-05FzFwMCUCAQEEIJP7_hH1QDFHQeZbxxoX0HKbB_x4CHVWcUP5WDqgmngD#Dawn

We are hoping to accomplish many really huge dreams:

• Open Farm Robotics
• Open Jet airliner
• Open Personal computing devices:
• MiniPC
• Laptop
• Tablet
• Router

And much, much more!  itdawns.org is the URL....

Please explain how Dawn is a DAC?
As far as I can see, Dawn is a regular company selling hardware, what am I missing?

[faddat]

Dawn is a DAC dedicated to the goal of improving the world through technology.  We make open hardware and software, and support them with services.  We've much bigger plans than that, though, and I hope that you and others on this forum will get to be a part of that.  Here's our 1-year:

https://www.icloud.com/pages/AwBWCAESEDEArRhp07qAQzyUX35J3RYaKq4Cs5B2PyOQ26G9ikeKh_51C2q0toR7LjbAdGp_AgbdR_TdWJr-05FzFwMCUCAQEEIJP7_hH1QDFHQeZbxxoX0HKbB_x4CHVWcUP5WDqgmngD#Dawn

We are hoping to accomplish many really huge dreams:

• Open Farm Robotics
• Open Jet airliner
• Open Personal computing devices:
• MiniPC
• Laptop
• Tablet
• Router

And much, much more!  itdawns.org is the URL....

[Akado]

What is Dawn ?  I haven't had a chance to listen to the mumble hangout ?

check it here 
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13598.0

[gamey]

What is Dawn ?  I haven't had a chance to listen to the mumble hangout ?

[fuzzy]

Bitsapphire was supposed to be doing the switch to new forums, but to be honest if it hasnt been done in the past 6 months it is probably safe to bet its no longer a priority. Sounds like a good idea.

Delegate idea. Great. That is precisely what I woild like to see happen.

Bitshares customized hardware? Well then you basically have solidified our superiority in this space with a first mover advantage up that cannot be over stated in its importance.

Syncing code bases and providing updates from your end just makes everything more seemless to integrate your hardware (+100%)

More local delegates? What does this part mean?

And the info liberation toolkit...well obviously we are going to have star trek now as opposed to tue next great war we potentially feel the urge to quell before it begins with this currency crisis,


So looking forward to working with you faddat. Ill chat personally soon!

[faddat]

Dan and I had a lot to think about after speaking with you guys on the mumble hangout.  We're really glad that we did.  Bytemaster was correct-- we do form a DAC.  Here's what Dawn proposes to do:

• Formally Tie Bitshares and Dawn through launching a delegate on bitshares
• Support bitshares through the creation of hardware implementing its features
• Offer to replace this awful forum code with Discourse because we think y'all are cool

  (Bulleted lists shouldn't be so damn hard!)

• Sync our codebases-- for the sake of API compatibility and just goodness, overall, we're going to keep up with your changes and make our changes available to you
• Aim for a larger number of more local delegates
• Create an info-liberation toolkit as both hardware and software
• Offer services based on that info-liberation toolkit