Author Topic: Decentraliced Dice Game is a awsome idea!  (Read 12441 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Bet365 is a company with $350 million annual profit and $40 Billion turnover.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.


Sure sounds like they would benefit from using DNS & BitCNY.




Asia the future of online gambling and a DAC like BTS is the most competitive vehicle to provide it.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:45:29 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile

In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?

I had a brief look.

http://neodice.com/   

It's a UIA in NXT. It says it's currently in beta. It has a CAP of $130 000. Doubt it will be popular as you have to trade your NXT for NEOCHIPS and then you have to deal with the very slow NXT blockchain (by comparison to centralised site.) Seems you might have to wait 4 minutes + to know if you had a winning spin.

PangeaPoker

It's another UIA on NXT. It has a CAP of $450 000 even though it is a few months away from launch. Not looked into it more. https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/

PrivateBet

UIA on NXT. A CAP of $70 000. Casino games and P2P sports betting. Also not launched yet might be same people doing NeoDice. Looks like they won funding/auction from Come-From-Beyond to develop it http://nxter.org/privatebet-asset-nxt-ae/

I don't know about the poker but I imagine the other games will be incredibly slow compared to centralized options, it also seems they will also require you to use UIA tokens as opposed to NXT.

Competitors like NXT are pursuing & working on dice, poker, casino games & P2P sports betting.
just need a website to list all the gamble for choosing.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Bet365 is a company with $350 million annual profit and $40 Billion turnover.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.


Sure sounds like they would benefit from using DNS & BitCNY.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?

I had a brief look.

http://neodice.com/   

It's a UIA in NXT. It says it's currently in beta. It has a CAP of $130 000. Doubt it will be popular as you have to trade your NXT for NEOCHIPS and then you have to deal with the very slow NXT blockchain (by comparison to centralised site.) Seems you might have to wait 4 minutes + to know if you had a winning spin.

PangeaPoker

It's another UIA on NXT. It has a CAP of $450 000 even though it is a few months away from launch. Not looked into it more. https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/

PrivateBet

UIA on NXT. A CAP of $70 000. Casino games and P2P sports betting. Also not launched yet might be same people doing NeoDice. Looks like they won funding/auction from Come-From-Beyond to develop it http://nxter.org/privatebet-asset-nxt-ae/

I don't know about the poker but I imagine the other games will be incredibly slow compared to centralized options, it also seems they will also require you to use UIA tokens as opposed to NXT.

Competitors like NXT are pursuing & working on dice, poker, casino games & P2P sports betting.


« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 12:10:43 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline CalabiYau

........
The developers are getting paid, software is being written. In order to expand the market in my opinion you have to show that Bitshares is safe and regulatable either programmatically or externally depending on what users want. Minebitshares can market BitAssets and the serious games can be built into that but I don't see any reason why we need or require dice or gambling.
...........


 +5%

Offline joele

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
If it's like bet on markets gambling like binary.com then it will be awesome

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

We are desperate; we are closer to the cliff than you realise.

I hate this idea, but sadly a dying person can't pick and choose.

I'm not desperate. I never thought Bitshares was "get rich quick".

So what are you desperate for when you're only one year in and it's a crypto recession?

The developers are getting paid, software is being written. In order to expand the market in my opinion you have to show that Bitshares is safe and regulatable either programmatically or externally depending on what users want. Minebitshares can market BitAssets and the serious games can be built into that but I don't see any reason why we need or require dice or gambling.

We were attracted to the idea of prediction markets. We should be predicting the outcome of the Superbowl not playing dice.  Economic activity we produce must also have social utility so it can be marketed as something "good" to mainstream society. Bingo might be fun but it's not going to save the world or even benefit Bitshares very much.

So in my opinion there has to be "serious games" which solve some social problem while also being fun. These "serious games" should help usher a new era and new kind of replacement for what we today call "jobs". It should be marketed as a fun way to make a profit while helping improve society. Dice cannot be marketed in that way and neither can Bingo.
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?

Gambling this early on will make the founders of Bitshares look greedy and unnecessarily shady. In my opinion you can have gaming elements, you can have chance, but it should be way more creative than to just take Dice or Bingo. That lack of creativity makes it look like a money making scam to attract suckers.

I understand that an influx of volume is good for Bitshares but I think simulating mining, and coming up with beneficial "serious games" is better than to just use casino style advertising. The whole point here is to advertise the protocol and show what it can do but you also have to innovate.

You can for example set up games where BTS are burned per play but maybe these serial games have puzzles in it which if solved actually benefit efforts in the real world. Think carefully about how games can be designed which are fun, which cost BTS, but which offer a chance to win, and make sure those games also have social utility. The idea is if you can you can make Bitshares look good while also increasing volume.

Also there is no reason to build it into the wallet. If you want to build it into the wallet that would be fine but there is no reason why it has to be.

In one of my previous posts I listed all sorts of serious games or beneficial games wihch can be used. I mentioned innovation games for example which could take advantage of the voting functionality to let people competitively generate innovation. I suggest you look into how these sorts of games can be created to the benefit of Bitshares:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation_game

If it cannot be done right then in my opinion it's better not to do it at all. I don't see anything innovative about Dice or Bingo. So it's just copying what other groups are doing and it doesn't seem to indirectly benefit Bitshares or even negligibly contribute to science like Primecoin. Marketing it to people who are already rich and who don't like gambling becomes impossible because it will lack social utility or utility for the Bitshares ecosystem. Minebitshares and Bitshares Wildcard seem like they are just gambling but if you look closely at the idea it has strategic social utility and benefits the ecosystem of crypto as a whole.

I think if Bitshares is going to do games it should do something different and live up to the reputation of innovation. I also think why not work with Bitshares Play which seems specifically designed for this purpose?

Maybe Bitshares Play can focus on gamification and then Bitshares can adopt what is proven to be fun.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 02:49:34 am by luckybit »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that a DAC is at a disadvantage to a centralized company in this situation.

----

Bet365 had $350 million in profit in 2014, attracts millions of users and had $40 Billion wagered.

Quote
Pre-tax profits have risen by more than 44 per cent to £213.8 million – compared to £148 million – as the firm's 2.9 million active users in 2013/14 wagered more than £26 billion.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bet-365-reports-massive-rise-profits-Stoke-Trent/story-21449091-detail/story.html

yeah , no one cares about decentralized or not for a gambling service , as long as they fee that they can get rich through it .
Centralized gambling is not necessary a buzz kill for  gambles . On the contrary , many of those centralized gambling sites have crazy volume .

Yes, I would say $40 billion is pretty crazy volume for 1 company in 1 year :)

I think DPOS blockchains can undercut centralized betting providers and solve the problem of smaller sites taking people's money as many Bitcoin ones have done.

Bitcoin options also have volatility which many gamblers and sites have been complaining about, which I linked to earlier in the thread.

So I think there's a lucrative market here, pity we can't be a part of it.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that a DAC is at a disadvantage to a centralized company in this situation.

----

Bet365 had $350 million in profit in 2014, attracts millions of users and had $40 Billion wagered.

Quote
Pre-tax profits have risen by more than 44 per cent to £213.8 million – compared to £148 million – as the firm's 2.9 million active users in 2013/14 wagered more than £26 billion.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bet-365-reports-massive-rise-profits-Stoke-Trent/story-21449091-detail/story.html

yeah , no one cares about decentralized or not for a gambling service , as long as they fee that they can get rich through it .
Centralized gambling is not necessary a buzz kill for  gambles . On the contrary , many of those centralized gambling sites have crazy volume .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that a DAC is at a disadvantage to a centralized company in this situation.

----

Bet365 had $350 million in profit in 2014, attracts millions of users and had $40 Billion wagered.

Quote
Pre-tax profits have risen by more than 44 per cent to £213.8 million – compared to £148 million – as the firm's 2.9 million active users in 2013/14 wagered more than £26 billion.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bet-365-reports-massive-rise-profits-Stoke-Trent/story-21449091-detail/story.html
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 06:58:36 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 05:26:43 pm by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

We are desperate; we are closer to the cliff than you realise.

I hate this idea, but sadly a dying person can't pick and choose.
I disagree, I think we're looking better than ever with a product that's finally close to the state it should have been in at launch. If you really think we're about to fall off a cliff, feel free to enlighten us.

There's been lots of positive developments lately like Shapeshift and the arrival of serious Chinese delegates that make me optimistic about the future. The light wallet is another one that will help take us to the next level, we just need to focus on what Bitshares does and optimize the hell out of it, no need to expand the scope of what Bitshares is.

Blockchain based solutions to centralized problems is exactly what BitShares does and adding gambling would be optimising the hell out the Super-DAC's capabilities.

I think you're right that things are coming together quite well in the next month. I think Bitcoin may dive off a cliff it breaks $200 again, so I'm worried about the impact that may have on BTS and I think it's important we make sure we decouple & I think explaining why stable BitAssets solve a lot of their problems is a big part of that.

Looking one to three months ahead, though I like Runes cryptohedge in particular, I'm not sure I see anything that's going to suddenly swing BitAsset adoption other than gambling. If you/anyone have any numbers you want throw into the conversation that point to us being able to drive BitAsset adoption & compete against PLAY/Competitor without gambling that would be very helpful.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 05:04:56 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline joele

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

We are desperate; we are closer to the cliff than you realise.

I hate this idea, but sadly a dying person can't pick and choose.
I disagree, I think we're looking better than ever with a product that's finally close to the state it should have been in at launch. If you really think we're about to fall off a cliff, feel free to enlighten us.

There's been lots of positive developments lately like Shapeshift and the arrival of serious Chinese delegates that make me optimistic about the future. The light wallet is another one that will help take us to the next level, we just need to focus on what Bitshares does and optimize the hell out of it, no need to expand the scope of what Bitshares is.

What about this Chinese delegates? can you give us some info?

Offline svk

I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

We are desperate; we are closer to the cliff than you realise.

I hate this idea, but sadly a dying person can't pick and choose.
I disagree, I think we're looking better than ever with a product that's finally close to the state it should have been in at launch. If you really think we're about to fall off a cliff, feel free to enlighten us.

There's been lots of positive developments lately like Shapeshift and the arrival of serious Chinese delegates that make me optimistic about the future. The light wallet is another one that will help take us to the next level, we just need to focus on what Bitshares does and optimize the hell out of it, no need to expand the scope of what Bitshares is.
Worker: dev.bitsharesblocks

sumantso

  • Guest
I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

We are desperate; we are closer to the cliff than you realise.

I hate this idea, but sadly a dying person can't pick and choose.

Offline bytemaster


Can this be done externally on a website with provably fair methods?

It isn't about probably fair.  It is about trust free. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline kokojie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
Can this be done externally on a website with provably fair methods?

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I agree with Empirical here all around. And I would think the best option would be to make a separate client that's focused solely on gambling. It would probably be too much to combine investing and gambling into the same client. By splitting the two then everyone can be happy and "hardcore serious investors" never have to step foot in the "BTS Casino" if they so wish.

Add-on features could work as well if we don't want to end up with split software fragments.

This kind of thing is better addressed by Play.

Not all of us were AGS/PTS holders, and thus not all of us hold all that big of stake in Play. Hell I'm sure there's plenty of people who bought into BTS after the Play snapshot and therefore have no stake at all. We can't just allow what is essentially a competitor to gobble up one of the most lucrative markets on the planet and be okay with it because "some" of us were lucky enough to have bought in early.

Bitshares Play and Bitshares Wildcard.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I just heard the new mumble hangout and it is really funny. It seems everyone is concerned about legal stuff. So if you US goverment is Blockchain technology is branding as illegal you are stoping to use BitShares?

So this said i like the idear in general but i don't get Satoshi Dice at all. What do you do on this kind of site? It looks not fun in my opinion.

I am thinking about this game a lot and it would be great to see something similar in our client.

first: we all like competition, so i want to have a competitive game
second: we all like to win money!
third: i hate to much luck

so i propose this game idea here and would like if bytemaster and co will include it into the client

- The delegates will produce random numbers
- the game will start with a small jackpot of, lets say 10 bitUSD
- if i want to play i have to spend .10 bitUSD or so

- one game will run for 1 day
- in this day all paid fees will add to the jackpot

so the setup of the game is this:

- the delegates produce random numbers
- lets say 84, 11 , 22
- i have to play 10 rounds
- every round i get 2 numbers and one is lost - at the same time i get "+" or "-"  or "/" or "*" from the delegates as well
- my goal is to connect the numbers and the +,-,*,/ in a way in 10 rounds that the end number is as high as possible
- i will get in the highscore and the first 30% of the highscore will get the money

this is only a rough idea, but we could implement games who are not depends on luck only and in most restrictions this is legal.

I think this is too limited.

In my opinion games should accomplish something useful. Why not do "serious games" instead of something useless like dice?

Why not do a prediction market? Why not use conditional rebates? Dice shouldn't be built into the wallet because it has no real utility. Prediction markets and conditional rebates can have utility. Serious games can have utility.

Examples:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5712.75
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_Rebate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_game
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline nomoreheroes7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • King of all the land
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nomoreheroes7
I agree with Empirical here all around. And I would think the best option would be to make a separate client that's focused solely on gambling. It would probably be too much to combine investing and gambling into the same client. By splitting the two then everyone can be happy and "hardcore serious investors" never have to step foot in the "BTS Casino" if they so wish.

Add-on features could work as well if we don't want to end up with split software fragments.

This kind of thing is better addressed by Play.

Not all of us were AGS/PTS holders, and thus not all of us hold all that big of stake in Play. Hell I'm sure there's plenty of people who bought into BTS after the Play snapshot and therefore have no stake at all. We can't just allow what is essentially a competitor to gobble up one of the most lucrative markets on the planet and be okay with it because "some" of us were lucky enough to have bought in early.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 12:17:04 pm by nomoreheroes7 »

Offline joele

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Agreed that Decentraliced Dice Game is an awesome idea, thus the DACx.com took advantage of PLAY Shares,  mostly Chinese devs so US regulation is not much a concern, plus the PLS coin is fixed to 2 Billion and deflating from usage, freezing and burning.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

There are far better things to focus on, number one being the performance of the full node client.

Getting that performance to a state where PCs with mechanical hard drives can use it would go a long way to increasing adoption. As of right now we have a killer product that's exclusive to people with SSDs, so it's no wonder adoption is lagging.

We also badly need documentation in order for 3rd parties to come in and start expanding the ecosystem.

Adding on a blockchain based solution that solves a problem in one of Bitcoins biggest most profitable industries that does billions of dollars of turnover & accounts for up to 40% of all Bitcoin transactions will not be viewed as desperate to any credible investor. There's nothing that compares to this and the exciting thing is that it doesn't require the third party partnerships that BTS struggles to get.

You casually suggest letting PLAY run with it, but PLAY is already valued at 12.5% of BTS, once they launch it could be close to a 1/4. As our BitAsset growth is anemic, once investors who make decisions based on standard valuation metrics view the volume, CAP and MoM growth rate of a BitAsset on PLAY, even based on the most conservative forecasts, it could rapidly surpass BTS imo.



I prefer sort of an adds-on features, you may select to add and can be removed as well.

 +5% That is an option too.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 11:15:41 am by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline joele

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
I prefer sort of an adds-on features, you may select to add and can be removed as well.

Offline svk

I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

There are far better things to focus on, number one being the performance of the full node client.

Getting that performance to a state where PCs with mechanical hard drives can use it would go a long way to increasing adoption. As of right now we have a killer product that's exclusive to people with SSDs, so it's no wonder adoption is lagging.

We also badly need documentation in order for 3rd parties to come in and start expanding the ecosystem.

Worker: dev.bitsharesblocks

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Gambling and investment are generally deemed to be polar opposites.  You are going to lose the investment crowd if you introduce gambling directly into the trading interface.  Bitgold, in and of itself, is a game changer.  No one has yet to figure out how to make a genuinely digital currency that can maintain a peg to the price of gold without third party risk, until now.  That alone is a solution the world has never seen.  This product is so profound that, if done right and secured, will have ramifications throughout the world.  Market pegged assets should be the focus.  I doubt any competitor will be able to compete, even with open source code.  If the focus is on building and securing the system, then you should have no problem with adoption.

Yes BitGold is a game-changer that's why I'm also in favour of a precious metals front end specifically for that market which competes directly with BitReserve & BitGold.com  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13325.msg174295#msg174295

Gambling can be done on the BitShares blockchain but not necessarily visible to investment users. We have a lot of business models that need front end sites for specific target markets, not just trading and gambling is the lowest hanging fruit as we can expect existing BTS holders to gamble recreationally in similar %'s to Bitcoin holders which can really drive BitAsset growth and use.

Trading is just one of the blockchain based models BitAssets is capable of

- BitAsset Trading                - Scottrade
- BitAsset Precious Metals - Goldmoney
- BitAsset Gambling.            - 888 
- BitAsset Banking                - UBS
- BitAsset Remittance.         - MoneyGram
- BitAsset BitUSD wallet      - M-Pesa

To start with focusing on trading is fine but having a toggle on-off BitAsset gaming option in the wallet would be huge.


« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 12:10:14 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
I tend to disagree with this comparison to bitcoin getting it's foothold thanks to gambling justification. That was a LONG time ago in Internet years. this is a new age now, filled with far more regulations that have caught up. The average Internet user is more sophisticated now compared to back then.

I understand the economic benefits to some people with this... but if that is what we have to show front and center in a showroom, then the real magic of bitshares is going to be lost and detracted from.

We need more user cases. We need success stories in the ecosystem. Everything is so new and everyone expects it all to just take off overnight, but that's just not how it happens. There is a tipping point.. and as we keep on bringing on useful things that compliment the DPOS ecosystem there will come a point where it just takes off and discussions like this will not be held in the light of being some kind of Monorail savior to bitshares.


Lets be frank though. This is not something for bitshares to develop anyways. If there is a 3rd party gaming entity that wants to use the bitshares platform for their transactions there is nothing stopping them. So for all those pro-gamblers, instead of just talking about it here, you could be reaching out to various gaming places that currently user bitcoin.. include your refer id! talk with them about how they could get first mover advantage.

For OPs proposal.. sounds like a great third party project to pursue, but the client is not where it belongs. You got plenty of other channels to utilize for advertising and for the game to work through your own client or web based. If it's to be distributed, yes, it would involve running a DAC.

At the end of the day, putting a slot machine right at the same counter where you go to get your banking or investments done is just so disassociated from anything anybody has ever used it makes no sense... unless we are now making the wallet for the purpose of scooting into the casino to gamble... then thats how most will perceive this to be.

The reason it belongs on the blockchain is because gambling is one of the biggest Bitcoin industries but it's key problem is being plagued by centralised hit & run options. A blockchain based solution that removes that risk and therefore solves a key problem in a massive Bitcoin industry is huge.

BitShares doesn't have an Eric Sprott or an Halsey Minor with business experience, contacts and hundreds of millions worth of capital, what we do have though is rockstar developers who are able to create blockchain based solutions that displace a variety of centralized industries. This is actually what BitShares Super-DAC  is designed to be.

Your argument also doesn't include any figures or research, only personal feelings, nor does it counteract the argument that if PLAY (or a competitor) replicate even just the numbers of a moderately successful centralized site their turnover and BitAsset CAP will rapidly outgrow us. As the DPOS market leader they gain the network effect and then have the option to add on any of our solutions & displace BTS.

I agree at least with pursuing centralized options too as Bitcoin is still making gambling headlines

The largest poker site in the world is looking into Bitcoin - http://www.pokersites.com/news/pokerstars-reportedly-pushing-bitcoin-igaming-4480

The largest online SuperBowl bets this year are done in Bitcoin - http://www.igamingbusiness.com/press/biggest-bets-super-bowl-can-only-be-placed-bitcoin

Quote
“This is groundbreaking for high rollers who want a lot of action but haven’t been able to bet as much as they would want due to the cost of transferring large amounts of currency to online betting sites. Online sportsbooks can’t take very large credit card deposits as the risk of fraud is too high. These risks don’t exist with bitcoin. It’s a very elegant solution.” said Dennis Laudrup, Head of Marketing at Cloudbet. Cloudbet is also expecting its new limits will encourage a number of high stakes bettors who are unfamiliar with bitcoin to consider its potential.

However a key current concern is volatility (21/01/2015)

http://www.online-casinos.com/news/13074-online-gambling-experiencing-bitcoin-struggle

Quote
The question being asked by those using Bitcoin for gambling is whether the declining or volatile nature of the currency is worth the stress. The punter who uses the virtual coinage may be thinking they have won at the casino or card room but have lost on the currency value. This may impact the volume of bets placed with Bitcoin at online gambling sites that offer the coins as fair trade. The following of the ups and downs of the money for the online gambling operators must be a constant threat to profitability and sustainable growth
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 10:11:55 am by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Helikopterben

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
Gambling and investment are generally deemed to be polar opposites.  You are going to lose the investment crowd if you introduce gambling directly into the trading interface.  Bitgold, in and of itself, is a game changer.  No one has yet to figure out how to make a genuinely digital currency that can maintain a peg to the price of gold without third party risk, until now.  That alone is a solution the world has never seen.  This product is so profound that, if done right and secured, will have ramifications throughout the world.  Market pegged assets should be the focus.  I doubt any competitor will be able to compete, even with open source code.  If the focus is on building and securing the system, then you should have no problem with adoption.

Offline Helikopterben

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
I have always thought of crypto projects as a "you build it, they will come" model.  Look how far bitcoin has come with no (or very little) marketing in the beginning stages, and arguably negative marketing with the allegations of ponzi scheme, beanie babies, tulip bulbs, terrorism, child pornography, ect, ect, ect.  Marketing at this stage is largely unecessary.

Agree largely with what you are saying, except I would argue that it was mining that was actually a huge and expensive marketing effort for BTC

Im not sure how mining correlates to marketing.  Perhaps the novelty of mining attracted new users, but mining in and of itself is not a good marketing tool, IMO.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

I tend to disagree with this comparison to bitcoin getting it's foothold thanks to gambling justification. That was a LONG time ago in Internet years. this is a new age now, filled with far more regulations that have caught up. The average Internet user is more sophisticated now compared to back then.

I understand the economic benefits to some people with this... but if that is what we have to show front and center in a showroom, then the real magic of bitshares is going to be lost and detracted from.

We need more user cases. We need success stories in the ecosystem. Everything is so new and everyone expects it all to just take off overnight, but that's just not how it happens. There is a tipping point.. and as we keep on bringing on useful things that compliment the DPOS ecosystem there will come a point where it just takes off and discussions like this will not be held in the light of being some kind of Monorail savior to bitshares.


Lets be frank though. This is not something for bitshares to develop anyways. If there is a 3rd party gaming entity that wants to use the bitshares platform for their transactions there is nothing stopping them. So for all those pro-gamblers, instead of just talking about it here, you could be reaching out to various gaming places that currently user bitcoin.. include your refer id! talk with them about how they could get first mover advantage.

For OPs proposal.. sounds like a great third party project to pursue, but the client is not where it belongs. You got plenty of other channels to utilize for advertising and for the game to work through your own client or web based. If it's to be distributed, yes, it would involve running a DAC.

At the end of the day, putting a slot machine right at the same counter where you go to get your banking or investments done is just so disassociated from anything anybody has ever used it makes no sense... unless we are now making the wallet for the purpose of scooting into the casino to gamble... then thats how most will perceive this to be.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline hpenvy2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile


I have always thought of crypto projects as a "you build it, they will come" model.  Look how far bitcoin has come with no (or very little) marketing in the beginning stages, and arguably negative marketing with the allegations of ponzi scheme, beanie babies, tulip bulbs, terrorism, child pornography, ect, ect, ect.  Marketing at this stage is largely unecessary.

/rant

Bitcoin got a major boost in the early stages from gambling. Marketing was largely unnecessary in the beginning because they were the standard.  People refer to Bitcoin like Americans typically call all different cotton swabs Q-Tip.  I understand where you are coming from, I just don't agree that build it and they will come will work in this crowded market.  With Ethereum breathing down your neck, I don't think a passive approach will do well for us.

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
This is a bad idea.  Professional investors and traders want to be able to go to a site like this and manage their accounts.  They will be turned off if they see a tab for candy crush.  IMO, if bitshares is to be a replacement for the nasdaq, then this should be the end result:  to have a professional trading site where end users have complete control over their assets with as much security as possible.  I realize getting this right is tricky and will take time, but distractions such as these games are unnecessary. 

I have always thought of crypto projects as a "you build it, they will come" model.  Look how far bitcoin has come with no (or very little) marketing in the beginning stages, and arguably negative marketing with the allegations of ponzi scheme, beanie babies, tulip bulbs, terrorism, child pornography, ect, ect, ect.  Marketing at this stage is largely unecessary.

IMO you guys are panicking because the price is down and you put too much emphasis on your ranking on coinmarketcap.  Bitshares adoption and price is naturally progressing at a nice pace.  Going from essentially 0 to to a market cap of $25 mil in 1.5 years is phenomenal, and the project is nowhere near ready for mainstream yet.  Yes it hit $100 mil and corrected, but that is completely normal for a market and cannot be avoided.  Just look at early charts of Microsoft or Apple.  They had many rallies followed by long, drawn out corrections.  Everyone knows how volatile bitcoin has been over the years.  Markets move in cycles and IMO we are near the bottom of a cycle in crypto right now.  Prices and adoption should begin to rise and along with it more investment and higher pay for delegates.  This technology is too important for you guys to get distracted and not focus on the big picture.  Bitshares has the potential to be a global game-changer.  Don't get frustrated by a down cycle and start thinking that something is wrong or that silly games need to be added to the trading interface.  Perhaps build a separate client for games and gambling or another chain if possible, but keep bitshares as a pristine, trust-minimized value storage and transfer network.  I have personally given my investment in this 2 years to show good progress because I realize Rome wasn't built in a day and it is going to take time to make this happen.  Ignor all the negativity and focus on the task at had.  The global implications of this project are too important.

/rant

If you look at the numbers or analyse how Bitcoin gained adoption you'll see the huge role gambling played and continues to play. Up to last year gambling accounted for up to 50% of all Bitcoin transactions too.

Our BitAsset growth is fairly stagnant, by all measurements PLAY will rapidly dwarf BTS if they offer gambling.  Unlike VOTE & BitShares inflating which I tried to talk everyone out of and if anything have a 5% annual fee on unclaimed stakes, in this case there's potentially the option to divest into PLAY at least so it's not the end of the world for me if people don't get this.




Offline carpet ride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 544
    • View Profile
I have always thought of crypto projects as a "you build it, they will come" model.  Look how far bitcoin has come with no (or very little) marketing in the beginning stages, and arguably negative marketing with the allegations of ponzi scheme, beanie babies, tulip bulbs, terrorism, child pornography, ect, ect, ect.  Marketing at this stage is largely unecessary.

Agree largely with what you are saying, except I would argue that it was mining that was actually a huge and expensive marketing effort for BTC
All opinions are my own. Anything said on this forum does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation between myself and anyone else.
Check out my blog: http://CertainAssets.com
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

Offline Helikopterben

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
This is a bad idea.  Professional investors and traders want to be able to go to a site like this and manage their accounts.  They will be turned off if they see a tab for candy crush.  IMO, if bitshares is to be a replacement for the nasdaq, then this should be the end result:  to have a professional trading site where end users have complete control over their assets with as much security as possible.  I realize getting this right is tricky and will take time, but distractions such as these games are unnecessary. 

I have always thought of crypto projects as a "you build it, they will come" model.  Look how far bitcoin has come with no (or very little) marketing in the beginning stages, and arguably negative marketing with the allegations of ponzi scheme, beanie babies, tulip bulbs, terrorism, child pornography, ect, ect, ect.  Marketing at this stage is largely unecessary.

IMO you guys are panicking because the price is down and you put too much emphasis on your ranking on coinmarketcap.  Bitshares adoption and price is naturally progressing at a nice pace.  Going from essentially 0 to to a market cap of $25 mil in 1.5 years is phenomenal, and the project is nowhere near ready for mainstream yet.  Yes it hit $100 mil and corrected, but that is completely normal for a market and cannot be avoided.  Just look at early charts of Microsoft or Apple.  They had many rallies followed by long, drawn out corrections.  Everyone knows how volatile bitcoin has been over the years.  Markets move in cycles and IMO we are near the bottom of a cycle in crypto right now.  Prices and adoption should begin to rise and along with it more investment and higher pay for delegates.  This technology is too important for you guys to get distracted and not focus on the big picture.  Bitshares has the potential to be a global game-changer.  Don't get frustrated by a down cycle and start thinking that something is wrong with adoption or that silly games need to be added to the trading interface.  Perhaps build a separate client for games and gambling or another chain if possible, but keep bitshares as a pristine, trust-minimized value storage and transfer network.  I have personally given my investment in this 2 years to show good progress because I realize Rome wasn't built in a day and it is going to take time to make this happen.  Ignor all the negativity and focus on the task at had.  The global implications of this project are too important.

/rant
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 01:32:00 am by Helikopterben »

Offline monsterer

If anyone lives in a jurisdiction where you don't need a gambling licence for something like this, please send me a PM :)
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
What if a % of the funds used to "gamble" using this were actually "burned"?

Lol instead of " house always wins"...the shareholders would be the true winners. Sounds like a great idea to me.

That's a fanastic idea!!! I like it!!!  +5% +5% +5% +5%

* Put it in the blockchain
* Allow the games section to toggle on and off
* Toggle it off by default

Or, just release a different wallet that accesses that part of the blockchain

I like that solution as well.  As long as it put in the blockchain, I'm happy.

Yip, on the blockchain with the blockchain as the house would be amazing. The edge can be insignificant if it's doing the job of driving BitAsset growth, then at a later stage once BitAssets are established the house edge can be increased & generate significant profit.

This article from March 2014 says gamblers wagered over
$2 Billion on Just-Dice.com in less than 9 months.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/bitcoin-gambling-sites-fly-regulatory-radar/

Also: 
Quote
By most accounts, gambling represents between 50 and 60 percent of all Bitcoin transactions.
So it's hard to imagine BTS growing market share without being competitive in the gambling market.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 07:12:41 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline hpenvy2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
* Put it in the blockchain
* Allow the games section to toggle on and off
* Toggle it off by default

Or, just release a different wallet that accesses that part of the blockchain

I like that solution as well.  As long as it put in the blockchain, I'm happy.

Offline bluebit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
What if a % of the funds used to "gamble" using this were actually "burned"?

Lol instead of " house always wins"...the shareholders would be the true winners. Sounds like a great idea to me.

That's a fanastic idea!!! I like it!!!  +5% +5% +5% +5%
BTSX TipMe: bluebit

Offline fluxer555

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 749
    • View Profile
* Put it in the blockchain
* Allow the games section to toggle on and off
* Toggle it off by default

Or, just release a different wallet that accesses that part of the blockchain

Offline hpenvy2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
* Put it in the blockchain
* Allow the games section to toggle on and off
* Toggle it off by default

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
this is what bitshares play working on, I suppose. What I concern is that whether bitCNY or BitUSD can cross chain so that we can play with bitCNY or USD.

I suspect they will have their own asset. I will try to look into PLAY more this weekend.

Look at how much volume gambling cobtributed to BitCoin at a similar stage and CAP.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/01/22/bitcoin-casinos-release-2012-earnings/
New popular sites are also generating big volume and MoM growth.

Given that our BitAssets are pretty stagnant with no key short term growth catalyst, the numbers clearly suggest PLAY would rapidly outgrow BitShares if they offer gambling and we don't.

Edit: I see they've been discussing bingo. I looked and 80%+ bingo players are female but 90%+ BTS users are male. So I personally wouldn't pursue bingo over other options. We should give existing male users recreational gaming and gambling options if we want to grow BitAssets as well as challenge for some of the Bitcoin market share.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:49:33 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline monsterer

As soon as scripting is added to BitShares, you can code any kind of gambling game you want into the blockchain, and no regulations apply.

Gambling regulations and licencing DO apply. It's not as simple as that, unfortunately.
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile
this is what bitshares play working on, I suppose. What I concern is that whether bitCNY or BitUSD can cross chain so that we can play with bitCNY or USD.

Offline rgcrypto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
    • View Profile
    • Cryptoctopus Blog
If there was a game on my BitShares client...I would play it!

Offline nomoreheroes7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • King of all the land
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nomoreheroes7
What if a % of the funds used to "gamble" using this were actually "burned"?

Lol instead of " house always wins"...the shareholders would be the true winners. Sounds like a great idea to me.

Offline fuzzy

What if a % of the funds used to "gamble" using this were actually "burned"? 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
They discussed decentralized gambling, Cool!

I already put most of my thoughts on the subject here -  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13788.0
I really love the figures on this, been worried about whether I should be divesting a bit into PLAY actually, so will definitely listen.

Offline speedy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: speedy
As soon as scripting is added to BitShares, you can code any kind of gambling game you want into the blockchain, and no regulations apply.

Offline Shentist

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
    • View Profile
    • metaexchange
  • BitShares: shentist
I just heard the new mumble hangout and it is really funny. It seems everyone is concerned about legal stuff. So if you US goverment is Blockchain technology is branding as illegal you are stoping to use BitShares?

So this said i like the idear in general but i don't get Satoshi Dice at all. What do you do on this kind of site? It looks not fun in my opinion.

I am thinking about this game a lot and it would be great to see something similar in our client.

first: we all like competition, so i want to have a competitive game
second: we all like to win money!
third: i hate to much luck

so i propose this game idea here and would like if bytemaster and co will include it into the client

- The delegates will produce random numbers
- the game will start with a small jackpot of, lets say 10 bitUSD
- if i want to play i have to spend .10 bitUSD or so

- one game will run for 1 day
- in this day all paid fees will add to the jackpot

so the setup of the game is this:

- the delegates produce random numbers
- lets say 84, 11 , 22
- i have to play 10 rounds
- every round i get 2 numbers and one is lost - at the same time i get "+" or "-"  or "/" or "*" from the delegates as well
- my goal is to connect the numbers and the +,-,*,/ in a way in 10 rounds that the end number is as high as possible
- i will get in the highscore and the first 30% of the highscore will get the money

this is only a rough idea, but we could implement games who are not depends on luck only and in most restrictions this is legal.