Author Topic: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community  (Read 4953 times)

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Offline cass

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Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.


sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

valzav,
Thank you.  This is the response I am looking for.

yeah -- all coming together now!  +5%

Right direction IMO !!!
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

valzav,
Thank you.  This is the response I am looking for.

 +5% +5% +5%
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Offline sschechter

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sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

valzav,
Thank you.  This is the response I am looking for.
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Offline sschechter

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Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.

Hurray!  +5% Well done BM!

I think that by now this response would have but obvious...any other answer would be suicide.

What I would like to see next is a re-commitment to building a quality product.  No new features until the UI is something to be proud of.  All the great innovations will be for naught, as people will associate the great ideas of BitShares with shoddy workmanship.  Subconsciously they will say 'see, this is why we need third party exchanges. BitShares tried to make a decentralized exchange, but they couldn't pull it off.'  In their mind, the technology will be a bust when the reality is that the developers weren't interested in finishing the job, but instead starting something new.

I am someone who considers myself an artist.  I am a developer and a hobbyist musician.  I know how hard it is to finish what you started.  The further you make it into a project, the less your efforts seems to have an impact. Software very much follows the principles of 80/20.  When your working on that first 80%, everything seems right in the world, like you can accomplish anything at lightning speed.  Then when it comes down to adding that final 20% polish, it becomes demoralizing as you spend hours to realize that your progress, when described to someone else, sounds like nothing.  But the difference between a project that is buggy and works with workarounds and is only 80% done and one that is 100% done, can be the difference between success and fail.

It doesn't matter if you can functionally accomplish what you set out to accomplish, the rest of the world doesn't see it that way.  Imagine if Peertracks released their product, and the quality was the same as the BitShares wallet...there is no way in hell they could compete with Spotify.  No one would in their right minds would believe the claims Peertracks are making if the product looks like shit.  No artists will sign up either.  Who would want to degrade their own work that way?

In a different music forum, I've seen discussions where people wouldn't use plugins because they hated the UI.  It wouldn't matter if it was the best sounding plugin, if they did not like the way it looked, it would take away any of the fun in using it.  Those people don't just exist, but make up a huge portion of society.  Even though I want to support my own investments and the BitShares ecosystem, trading in the decentralized market is just not fun, and I would rather trade on Bter.  Not only is it not fun, it lacks the tools that actually make trading effective.

So please, no more new features.  Focus on your flagship product, and making whats already functionally done the best that it can be.  Appearances matter.  Finish the job and do it right.

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Offline valzav

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Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

Offline Empirical1.2

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This seems relevant.


At first I was all for the gambling idea, but then thinking about this chart I realized that there really isn't a market need for it, you can gamble with bitcoin. We have to do what others aren't doing. We have to offer something nobody else has - bitassets are a good start.
Also, we have to avoid disharmony.

The market need is due to the fact that it's one of the biggest Bitcoin industries but it's plagued by centralised hit and run options, which blockchain based solutions solve and they have the problem of volatility.

25/01/2015 - http://www.online-casinos.com/news/13074-online-gambling-experiencing-bitcoin-struggle

Quote
The question being asked by those using Bitcoin for gambling is whether the declining or volatile nature of the currency is worth the stress. The punter who uses the virtual coinage may be thinking they have won at the casino or card room but have lost on the currency value. This may impact the volume of bets placed with Bitcoin at online gambling sites that offer the coins as fair trade. The following of the ups and downs of the money for the online gambling operators must be a constant threat to profitability and sustainable growth

Centralised gambling operators are currently engaged in hugely convoluted mechanisms for accepting currency. It's one of the few places where there is an immediate market need for BitAssets and they greatly simplify things.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Bet365 is a company with $350 million annual profit and $40 Billion turnover.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.


Sure sounds like they would benefit from using DNS & BitCNY.

I think it's good we don't pursue this at the moment. I'll take the short term 1.0 price spike and see what the Chinese market can do in the next 2-3 months in terms of adoption but the market need is obvious to me and BTS will be outcompeted by a real SuperDAC.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 02:18:57 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.

Hurray!  +5% Well done BM!
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Offline oldman

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Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.

 +5%

Kudos to BM for seeking out and being responsive to community input; this is the reason BitShares has the No. 1 development team in the industry.

Offline xeroc

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Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.
+5% ..

Offline bytemaster

Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline matt608

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Interesting chart chewchew.  Highlights the need to penetrate developing economies who need stable currency and free banking from their phone.

Offline chewchew

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This seems relevant.


At first I was all for the gambling idea, but then thinking about this chart I realized that there really isn't a market need for it, you can gamble with bitcoin. We have to do what others aren't doing. We have to offer something nobody else has - bitassets are a good start.
Also, we have to avoid disharmony.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 01:35:10 pm by chewchew »

Offline cube

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I think it's clear this shouldn't be messed with in BTS right now as the community consensus is pretty unanimous and specifically because of the negative impact it may have on the Chinese market.

I think the numbers (early Bitcoin as well as new sites) show that a DAC which offered blockchain based BitAsset gambling could easily surpass BitShares.

Yes, I think it is telling that Bitcoin could do away with gaming (and succeeded) is due to its unfettered and decentralised nature. On the other hand, bitshares has its shareholders to answer to. And in this case, bts is being reined in by a big shareholders' 'NO GO!', especially from the Chinese.
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Offline Empirical1.2

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I think it's clear this shouldn't be messed with in BTS right now as the community consensus is pretty unanimous and specifically because of the negative impact it may have on the Chinese market.

I think the numbers (early Bitcoin as well as new sites) show that a DAC which offered blockchain based BitAsset gambling could easily surpass BitShares.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline cass

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i'll install local web wallet gui again also later! Maybe i can fix some GUI issues also!
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Offline xeroc

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I am in .. and if I knew how to help out i would certainly do ..

Cant the devs just take a full day and improve on the in-client documentation? maybe just add tooltip refs and let the community work out the text (for a bounty)

Offline matt608

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Offline CalabiYau

Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

I fully agree        +5%

Offline fuzzy

Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

All very well said.  +5%

Your suggestions to improve the client are great too. I say yay to all that.

Yup. Nail, meet head. This is what BTS needs right now.

 +5%

I agree on all fronts.  While someone who has used the wallet since near day one (me) can somehow "lose" 50,000 BTS, it is a really bad idea to start focusing on other things...get the danged wallet PERFECT.  Then we can start talking about all the other stuff we can do to "customize" our own wallets. 

I think Play can handle the gaming for now.
Why couldn't the BitShares wallet just have an 'app store' that has a Games section with the DACs like Play?  It'd allow for BitShares to do cross-chain trading such as the upcoming noteUSD>bitUSD conversion too.
It will not work that way.  PLAY would be the app store for bitshares (or rather ONE of them, because there would likely be others).  As far as the cross-chain trading, I agree 100%.  I think we should be trying to get BitShares PERFECT, then reaching out and trying to get every other blockchain to utilize DPoS as the gold standard, then have their own version of USD so that eventually we can just start using each decentralized exchange for price feeds instead of centralized ones. 

Im not questioning bms judgement but I know he makes good ones after he goes away and reflects from within... I suggest he do the same with this.. If he says its a go i believe its the best for the project.. Just like all the other decisions they all end up looking good in hindsight..just need to step back and think..
I love you jsidhu...really bro, but now that this is coming to a head in the community, I want to say that I wholely agree we should not be adding this to the wallet until it is polished. 

Nobody is going to download our BitShares Wallet, try using it, encounter errors with little to no documentation, seek help on the forums, cry, rinse and repeat..then right before they are about to delete the thing go "oh wait, I can play a game of bingo...I guess I'll keep it".  BM I know you have pressure to get bitUSD and the bitAssets more volume, but this will happen over time---as long as you stick to your core principles of making it Perfectly Polished. 

Doesn't this remind you of the days when everyone was giving us hell about not even having a product?  You were working on making something truly innovative and when it FINALLY came out, people were pumped and the market showed how impressed it was.  Don't steer away of the original goal. 
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Offline werneo

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Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

 +5%

exactly right

Offline cass

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I think Play can handle the gaming for now.
Why couldn't the BitShares wallet just have an 'app store' that has a Games section with the DACs like Play?  It'd allow for BitShares to do cross-chain trading such as the upcoming noteUSD>bitUSD conversion too.

I really like this idea but also pls after UX/UI got polished!
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Offline jsidhu

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Im not questioning bms judgement but I know he makes good ones after he goes away and reflects from within... I suggest he do the same with this.. If he says its a go i believe its the best for the project.. Just like all the other decisions they all end up looking good in hindsight..just need to step back and think..
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Offline Helikopterben

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I'm with you.  Heck, bitgold alone is potentially worth trillions.  The marketcap of gold is currently about 8 trillion dollars.  Imagine if gold were once again useful as money through bitgold.  Yet we are going to work on this little bingo side project to get more adoption?  That makes absolutely no sense.  Swing for the fences guys.  It looks like an easy home run to me, if done right.

Offline yellowecho

I think Play can handle the gaming for now.
Why couldn't the BitShares wallet just have an 'app store' that has a Games section with the DACs like Play?  It'd allow for BitShares to do cross-chain trading such as the upcoming noteUSD>bitUSD conversion too.
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Offline nomoreheroes7

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Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

All very well said.  +5%

Your suggestions to improve the client are great too. I say yay to all that.

Yup. Nail, meet head. This is what BTS needs right now.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

All very well said.  +5%

Your suggestions to improve the client are great too. I say yay to all that.
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Offline cn-members

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
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Just a side note , PLAY don't do gambling themselves also .
BTS中文区发言人公共账号,帮助社区有效沟通与交流。
Chinese Community Spokesman Account,to help the effective communication between Chinese and other members of the community.We're not translators to do regular translations , but will help with vital ones as we see fit and available at that time.

Offline sschechter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
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Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.
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