Would you like to see Beyond Bitcoin (BTS) Marketing Hangouts?

[fuzzy]

Maybe its overkill.  You do a good job on your other stuff. Maybe just read that news letter from them and put it out as a recording. 

Im voting no because that brian dude was just an epic fail.  Is it statistically possible to have another so close in succession?

Yeh it isn't a bad idea and I have kicked it around.  I wouldn't mind doing it but if it becomes 20-30 pages that is just too much work...though I do think it is at least somewhat better than doing nothing. 

I support marketing or just plain old developer hangouts, for sure.
In fact we still have yet to schedule ours Fuzz... it was a crazy month, but we're happy to get something on the calendar.

Thanks a great deal for that man, but that is actually not what i'm talking about here.  I'm talking about providing updates about what the nullstreet marketing crew is doing.  I think CryptoPrometheus is in a great position to get paid to join us during our weekly hangout and spend 5 minutes giving an overview of the most interesting things going on in marketing, but I am really looking for a volunteer to help interface as a NullStreet Marketing person.

Personally I'm really impressed with the way the marketing crew is self organizing.  I see natural roles developing, and I think we're all mature enough to call bullshit when we see it.  There's a lot happening at nullstreet, and things are heating up in a really good way.

I am too.  Yet somehow when I try to get across to everyone that it is important to interface somewhat regularly with the community's most avid supporters, it literally gets outright ignored.  It doesn't make sense to me, but when one of the most prominent leaders of Nullstreet came out and told me he was going to be taking a "very passive role" in BitShares...I found myself wondering if everyone in NullStreet even knew about it. 
For instance, if I just told emailtooaj, mira and btswildpig "i'm going to take a passive role in these hangouts from now on", but still expected to be a part of the delegate, I do not think that is a good idea on my part. 

Speaking from personal experience the whole process of running for a delegate spot has been a massive undertaking, and absolutely no personal gain of any kind to show for it yet. Quite the opposite.

Our team has about 360 hours and $1200+ dollars invested, on top of delegate registration fees of around 120,000 bts, just now about 75% recovered from our first delegate's accumulated pay.  Not to mention we haven't been able to really seek professional legal council (yet another reason to support Fuzz) and we haven't taken care of a good many business expenses associated with doing this right.

How many other '100% paid' delegates are in a similar position thus far?

Thanks for the info and great question!  This goes both ways!  Opening up to the community and being Honest about what is going on behind the scenes for yourself and roadscape (and lord I love you both) brings the community closer to you!  It helps them understand the struggles of being a delegate who is working mostly off the belief that they can better themselves, the network and the world around us.  Leaving people in the dark largely makes them assume the worst---especially when past experience has shown them the worst.  This is as much a reason for you guys to reach out to the community as any other!

I am all for transparency, i love it, but If I had one BitSilver for every frustrated rant calling for delegate accountability of system in which even 100% paid delegates are still working for free... with lion hearted effing magic abilities of literally turning 'nothing into something'.... i would put them all in a fund to counteract the cynical by reminding them to be grateful for all the gifts they have received in life, just to be here, having this conversation.

I agree and it frustrates me whole heartedly probably as much as anyone around ...because to be frank if you were to go on twitter and other social media sites, I was one of only 3 people on those sites shouting at the top of my lungs about BitShares and bitAssets.  Reddit was only slightly better.  Then to have people always complaining, but rarely find the time to ask if they could better spend their time doing something constructive...is frustrating.

Let's turn this around.  There is critical thinking, which is awesome... and there is toxic, neurotic, infectious scarcity complex... which is self defeating.

toxic, neurotic and infectious thoughts are self-defeating...but they are what fill in the space when outreach is not done.  I used to do clinical outreach for the military when I was in the air force.  We did outreach because we wanted to:
A) Identify Problems before they became too big.
B) Connect with the community to help decrease stigma of asking for help when needed.
C) To help people understand some basic things they could do on their own to help ensure they ever needed us. 

What I have and continue to suggest is outreach.  Heck if not through Mumble, do it through BitSharesTV!  Regardless, not offering outreach in these areas is a recipe for disaster and we can call the people who become upset and frustrated on both sides toxic, neurotic and a whole host of things, but it wouldn't be a correct assessment.  The fact remains that if we want to have trust amongst ourselves and we want to be as effective as possible as a team, that we need to be open with each other about our intentions, plans, failings and strengths.  If we do not communicate effectively with investors, we can be assured that it is going to bite us in the ass. 

Did you ever have a swear jar at home?  Where you had to put a quarter in the jar if you dropped the f-bomb?
We should institute the 'gripe jar'... i have no idea how that would work, but damn i'd love to see it.

How about this.  Every time someone gripes about how awful things are, delegate or not, will ask them what they have been doing to help this project succeed?  How many people did they turn on to BitShares in the past month?  How much liquidity did they provide?  How many creative ideas have they shared?  How many solutions have they offered?  How many times did they say 'good job', or, I really appreciate all you have done to advance the cause.  If they can't say anything useful, then they can tip the gripe jar 1 BitSilver to be used for something constructive.

I like this idea...but to be honest, at the same time it is necessary to not do this:

“Cecil Graham: What is a cynic?
Lord Darlington: A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.
Cecil Graham: And a sentimentalist, my dear Darlington, is a man who sees an absurd value in everything and doesn’t know the market price of any single thing.”

Can we land somewhere in the middle?  Can we recognize the great strides which have been made instead of sulking in the shadows of 'what might have been?', and chasing the phantoms of 'what are we losing?'

I don't think of it that way...and you know me bitscape.  I try to believe the best in people but at the same time it is a fine line between being a believer and being a fool.  Investors will either A) get what they want, or B) will lose confidence and exit the system.  We have to be astutely aware of this.  This isn't the government--it is a true free market! 
As far as a middle ground I believe there is one...but until I made this post it seemed that my points were largely ignored in NullStreet.  Perhaps this is because I am not as active as I wish I could be in there because I have other things going on, but literally being ignored when I extend a hand outward makes me begin to cringe. 

Oh, one more thing... you can leave your 'dick metaphors' at the door.
We don't need to read that crap... get creative at least for satoshi's sake.

I had to get that out of my system before it turned into resentment.  Some comments in this thread were just the straw that broke the narwhal's back, and that's hard to do!  Little mopey gripey sulk all over this forum.

Agreed...
I have a heck of a dirty mouth (when i'm speaking), but there is a message beyond the message in there and I think we need to be careful...
However, I understand he is frustrated.  I just wish he would have taken a moment to try to voice it in a little less offensive way.  But hell, we DO have free speech!

Praise to those who contribute by other means!

peace, b

Peace to you too man.  And definitely thank you to all of those out there who are doing even little things every day to help this project.  You might not get a whole lot of thanks for what you are doing...but that only makes it more admirable.

[Empirical1.2]

With Brian we had 1 guy costing circa $10k a month who probably spent an average of $10k a month (badly) so he was overpaid and under-performing.

At the current CAP I would prefer 1 main guy getting $3000 in personal salary with a budget of $12 000.
Then we'd have budget for a new animated video every 2 weeks, always have an advert on a top crypto-currency site (Coindesk/CMC) with our latest feature as well as extra money leftover for other initiatives. We'd only have to monitor 1 main guy and $3000 at least incentivises a bit of  competition. You'd also have $4500  left over for 3 smaller marketing delegate positions.

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

However given that's what we have the more initiatives that add accountability and helps them communicate the better.

You are only going to attract bad talent at that low pay rate. You can get bad even at $10k, it's just less likely at higher rates. Finding someone who can work well in the crypto space unless they are inspired by it is a challenge though, which is why I think the model to hire someone for the task is inefficient.

Delegates are inspired entrepreneurs that have the 'can-do' spirit to make things happen.

We are magical beings that can turn nothing into something.

A guy seeking a job in marketing willing to accept that kind of rate of pay is more than likely going to be really ineffective.

I see the delegates work tend to be complimentary and not overlapping. Some are not even really considered marketing, but their activities accomplish it. They are largely operating on the hope, belief, and prayer that BTS market cap goes up and their delegate stake increases in value. That is enough to motivate anybody to want to see BTS better perform. The motivational dynamic in my estimation is perfect.

There is enough of us to keep an eye on things.. look what happened just last week. One wasn't cutting it and they got the boot. If there are others it will show, and the remaining cream will rise to the top.

My 2.9 cents anyways.

Jonathan

I think it's great if we have the passionate entrepreneurs you are talking about looking to increase the value of their future delegate stake but I don't think that's an excuse for expecting them to work for free now.
Some of the talented guys like Method can't be expected to give too much of their time for nothing and there's little they can do with a single delegate budget.  I'd like to be able to reward at least 1/2 of those people with a bit of a personal incentive and a decent budget.

However if the current system is slowly ticking over, coming together and we have inspired delegates who are happy working for nearly free for a few months while being constantly accountable that's great.

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

9?  I count 5, myself, methodx, rgcrypto and bitscape's first one (second one isn't in yet) and the Chinese group.

Yeah sorry I meant we should have at least 9/10 marketing delegate positions to do anything meaningful but that I think a few delegates with a bit of a personal incentive and bigger budget is better than 9/10 individuals at the current CAP.

[ebit]

good idea

[ticklebiscuit]

Maybe its overkill.  You do a good job on your other stuff. Maybe just read that news letter from them and put it out as a recording. 

Im voting no because that brian dude was just an epic fail.  Is it statistically possible to have another so close in succession?

[lovejoy]

Delegates are inspired entrepreneurs that have the 'can-do' spirit to make things happen.

We are magical beings that can turn nothing into something.

A guy seeking a job in marketing willing to accept that kind of rate of pay is more than likely going to be really ineffective.

I see the delegates work tend to be complimentary and not overlapping. Some are not even really considered marketing, but their activities accomplish it. They are largely operating on the hope, belief, and prayer that BTS market cap goes up and their delegate stake increases in value. That is enough to motivate anybody to want to see BTS better perform. The motivational dynamic in my estimation is perfect.

There is enough of us to keep an eye on things.. look what happened just last week. One wasn't cutting it and they got the boot. If there are others it will show, and the remaining cream will rise to the top.

My 2.9 cents anyways.

^ This is the best thing I've read all day.

I support marketing or just plain old developer hangouts, for sure.
In fact we still have yet to schedule ours Fuzz... it was a crazy month, but we're happy to get something on the calendar.

Personally I'm really impressed with the way the marketing crew is self organizing.  I see natural roles developing, and I think we're all mature enough to call bullshit when we see it.  There's a lot happening at nullstreet, and things are heating up in a really good way.

Speaking from personal experience the whole process of running for a delegate spot has been a massive undertaking, and absolutely no personal gain of any kind to show for it yet. Quite the opposite.

Our team has about 360 hours and $1200+ dollars invested, on top of delegate registration fees of around 120,000 bts, just now about 75% recovered from our first delegate's accumulated pay.  Not to mention we haven't been able to really seek professional legal council (yet another reason to support Fuzz) and we haven't taken care of a good many business expenses associated with doing this right.

How many other '100% paid' delegates are in a similar position thus far?

I am all for transparency, i love it, but If I had one BitSilver for every frustrated rant calling for delegate accountability of system in which even 100% paid delegates are still working for free... with lion hearted effing magic abilities of literally turning 'nothing into something'.... i would put them all in a fund to counteract the cynical by reminding them to be grateful for all the gifts they have received in life, just to be here, having this conversation.

Let's turn this around.  There is critical thinking, which is awesome... and there is toxic, neurotic, infectious scarcity complex... which is self defeating.

Did you ever have a swear jar at home?  Where you had to put a quarter in the jar if you dropped the f-bomb?
We should institute the 'gripe jar'... i have no idea how that would work, but damn i'd love to see it.

How about this.  Every time someone gripes about how awful things are, delegate or not, will ask them what they have been doing to help this project succeed?  How many people did they turn on to BitShares in the past month?  How much liquidity did they provide?  How many creative ideas have they shared?  How many solutions have they offered?  How many times did they say 'good job', or, I really appreciate all you have done to advance the cause.  If they can't say anything useful, then they can tip the gripe jar 1 BitSilver to be used for something constructive.

“Cecil Graham: What is a cynic?
Lord Darlington: A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.
Cecil Graham: And a sentimentalist, my dear Darlington, is a man who sees an absurd value in everything and doesn’t know the market price of any single thing.”

Can we land somewhere in the middle?  Can we recognize the great strides which have been made instead of sulking in the shadows of 'what might have been?', and chasing the phantoms of 'what are we losing?'

Oh, one more thing... you can leave your 'dick metaphors' at the door.
We don't need to read that crap... get creative at least for satoshi's sake.

I had to get that out of my system before it turned into resentment.  Some comments in this thread were just the straw that broke the narwhal's back, and that's hard to do!  Little mopey gripey sulk all over this forum.

Praise to those who contribute by other means!

peace, b

[davidpbrown]

What you've suggested is a fair test of the reality and something would be badly off, if you were punished for any of the good sense expressed.

There should be a worry about who holds the power. Such issues are already central to the way that those critical of BitShares talk; so, everyone needs to work hard to ensure that such talk as 'greedy devs' does not stand up to scrutiny; that again is a reason that delegates should be evidencing their work.. but if they do not need to worry because they hold all the votes, then we might start to have a problem. What perhaps needs to occur, is that the delegates become more critical of other delegates and more careful who they support.

I don't understand [Number of votes] on http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates being a % but I understand that there are some there with substantial % support.. perhaps too much of that is lazy by default support for everyone. Perhaps someone big vote should push those who have not evidenced their contribution, to encourage that they do.

More power to fuzzy! 

[fuzzy]

  I can do this, but eventually marketing delegates will be some of the people with the largest stake in the network and I have to recognize that angering too many delegates can kick me and my crew out of a delegate position.

This is a real problem in this community. Everyone wants to be a delegate so we end up sucking each others dicks instead of pushing ourselves to higher standards.
Every diluting delegate should be publishing weekly reports about what they did with their operating funds, how many work hours they put in and at what rate. This includes devs.

The nature of human behavior is what it is.  Politics occur in every system where people must compete for the acceptance of the majority.  I am not "sucking a dick" instead of pushing myself to higher standards...and I'm sorry that this has gotten you so heated.  In fact, it kind of sucks that my openness and honesty is returned with this kind of response--it actually serves as an incentive to not be as honest!

But to think it is wrong that people who work their butts off and sacrifice for the ecosystem, then put up 60,000 BTS just to register a 100% delegate (hoping they get voted in) to have a concern for losing their position when they find themselves lucky enough to get voted in, is severely missing the point. 
I did not construct the incentives of the system and honestly I do not see them getting much better other than a few potential tweaks--and the inclusion of some other tools.  But with that said, it creates a system where people in delegate positions are forced to consider the realities of weighing their honest opinion against what it can do to their position. 

The fact is that if you piss off power players you get the boot.  I am obviously not afraid to potentially piss them off in the name of the community (though this is not my intent), but I also have to recognize the reality that most people have not even voted for my delegate.  So I see the quandary that most politicians see (and wow is it a crazy learning experience)...most people do not actively vote and the power players are the only ones in society who see it as worth their time.  So who are we forced to go to when we begin depending on funding?  The apathetic?...or power players...?

Just posting this thread could have severe risks for me (if the marketing people choose to think of it as an attack) and I am uncomfortable doing it.  However, after the whole ordeal with BP I promised myself that I would approach the community when my spidey sense was going off--which is what I'm now doing.  I sincerely hope you will take a deep breath triox and understand the position I am in and that I am not meaning to demean the efforts of anyone here...simply trying to act as a community representative who may or may not be missed if his services are shut down for failing in his role of bringing the Empathetic community together around the power players to ask the legitimate questions and represent "the rest of us".

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

9?  I count 5, myself, methodx, rgcrypto and bitscape's first one (second one isn't in yet) and the Chinese group.

Yeh, which is why I like Sumantso's idea about having colorized names to show what role(s) people are performing in the ecosystem.

With Brian we had 1 guy costing circa $10k a month who probably spent an average of $10k a month (badly) so he was overpaid and under-performing.

At the current CAP I would prefer 1 main guy getting $3000 in personal salary with a budget of $12 000.
Then we'd have budget for a new animated video every 2 weeks, always have an advert on a top crypto-currency site (Coindesk/CMC) with our latest feature as well as extra money leftover for other initiatives. We'd only have to monitor 1 main guy and $3000 at least incentivises a bit of  competition. You'd also have $4500  left over for 3 smaller marketing delegate positions.

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

However given that's what we have the more initiatives that add accountability and helps them communicate the better.

I want to see all the marketing delegates soar to new levels of success.  I want to see all of us uplifted and to hopefully find a career working for blockchains if that is what we love and believe in.  I also agree that communication is as big a priority as any (obviously). 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

With Brian we had 1 guy costing circa $10k a month who probably spent an average of $10k a month (badly) so he was overpaid and under-performing.

At the current CAP I would prefer 1 main guy getting $3000 in personal salary with a budget of $12 000.
Then we'd have budget for a new animated video every 2 weeks, always have an advert on a top crypto-currency site (Coindesk/CMC) with our latest feature as well as extra money leftover for other initiatives. We'd only have to monitor 1 main guy and $3000 at least incentivises a bit of  competition. You'd also have $4500  left over for 3 smaller marketing delegate positions.

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

However given that's what we have the more initiatives that add accountability and helps them communicate the better.

You are only going to attract bad talent at that low pay rate. You can get bad even at $10k, it's just less likely at higher rates. Finding someone who can work well in the crypto space unless they are inspired by it is a challenge though, which is why I think the model to hire someone for the task is inefficient.

Delegates are inspired entrepreneurs that have the 'can-do' spirit to make things happen.

We are magical beings that can turn nothing into something.

A guy seeking a job in marketing willing to accept that kind of rate of pay is more than likely going to be really ineffective.

I see the delegates work tend to be complimentary and not overlapping. Some are not even really considered marketing, but their activities accomplish it. They are largely operating on the hope, belief, and prayer that BTS market cap goes up and their delegate stake increases in value. That is enough to motivate anybody to want to see BTS better perform. The motivational dynamic in my estimation is perfect.

There is enough of us to keep an eye on things.. look what happened just last week. One wasn't cutting it and they got the boot. If there are others it will show, and the remaining cream will rise to the top.

My 2.9 cents anyways.

Jonathan

[matt608]

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

9?  I count 5, myself, methodx, rgcrypto and bitscape's first one (second one isn't in yet) and the Chinese group.

[Empirical1.2]

With Brian we had 1 guy costing circa $10k a month who probably spent an average of $10k a month (badly) so he was overpaid and under-performing.

At the current CAP I would prefer 1 main guy getting $3000 in personal salary with a budget of $12 000.
Then we'd have budget for a new animated video every 2 weeks, always have an advert on a top crypto-currency site (Coindesk/CMC) with our latest feature as well as extra money leftover for other initiatives. We'd only have to monitor 1 main guy and $3000 at least incentivises a bit of  competition. You'd also have $4500  left over for 3 smaller marketing delegate positions.

At the current CAP our system of 9 marketing delegates with $1500 each is hard to keep track of and if they want any personal salary for their efforts their budget becomes miniscule and takes ages to accrue.

However given that's what we have the more initiatives that add accountability and helps them communicate the better.

[triox]

  I can do this, but eventually marketing delegates will be some of the people with the largest stake in the network and I have to recognize that angering too many delegates can kick me and my crew out of a delegate position.

This is a real problem in this community. Everyone wants to be a delegate so we end up sucking each others dicks instead of pushing ourselves to higher standards.
Every diluting delegate should be publishing weekly reports about what they did with their operating funds, how many work hours they put in and at what rate. This includes devs.

[fuzzy]

To be honest Crypto-Prometheus I do not see these positions becoming extremely competitive until we reach a valuation of about 3-5x what it currently is.  In that time, a group of 5-10 marketing delegates can earn a lot of BTS without really showing anything for it.  And unless I go out and individually contact each marketing delegate and give a status update to the community whether they choose to do hangouts or refuse to, it will be very hard to incentivize them to come on for hangouts.  I can do this, but eventually marketing delegates will be some of the people with the largest stake in the network and I have to recognize that angering too many delegates can kick me and my crew out of a delegate position.  This is really a quandary for me because although I recognize just how important it is to give the community access to the inner-workings of everything, I also have to try to find a way to keep in the green so-to-speak (and that isn't even talking about wanting to reach my goal of 1 million BTS for my personal stash). 

That's an important statement of the reality at the moment but what it suggests is what I've been wondering.. are marketing delegates really worth 100%? At the moment can a marketing delegate really generate value equivalent to what that 100% BTS return will be? Perhaps marketing should be 40%-50% or some other agreed amount.. 100% represents developer level skill set.. and being blunt, none of the marketing delegates I've seen to date match that contribution.

In the event that the status quo continues for a large fraction of this year - which is what I expect, then do we really want to have gifted large influence to those who have not contributed - equal to those who have.

There's a problem of engagement here.. the voting is not compelling and the evidence is not compelling, so those on 100% at the moment are getting a free ride and then paid handsomely for it.

All very provocative I know but perhaps the challenge should be made more strongly, so that we do get a sense of who deserve what. Devs certainly should get the largest fraction but in time will they deserve 100% even?.. perhaps by then we will have resolved to have more delegates??

I believe if the delegates were working on a couple things in a group, together by amassing their funds and utilizing them for "viral" types of marketing, or even better---forming an affiliate network (thanks RGCrypto) that not only benefitted them but also every community member who joined it, would be very valuable.  I think we would see a lot.

As far as comparing marketing to devs...that is a hard one.  The reason I personally built a team of 6 people total for my delegate was because I wanted to set it up so other people had a stake in building the value of our project.  That is worth the sacrifice of extra funds going into my pocket because I believe we have to think long-term and incentivize each other to grow. 

We are a network.  We grow in strength as a network everytime an individual in the network grows in strength.  This means we have to look at incentives that align in such a way to help each other grow.  Just like I looked at incentives when designing the hangouts the way they are currently designed, we have to make them align to become effective.  And the best way to align incentives is to consider what everyone needs and try to design situations where everyone benefits from taking part.  Admittedly, I have not perfected this (and could honestly use a coder myself for a user issued asset I'm eyeing) but I am doing my best. 

I think the marketing delegates are doing their best as well (though one in particular recently told me they planned to take a "very passive role" in the community and gave me no further information upon my request for it).  If you go to the NullStreet forums (which anyone can sign up to take part in if you ask Method-X to let you), you will see many people working hard on many things.  Many of these people are volunteering for the cause without getting paid by delegate fees (Empirical1.2 and his video comes to mind) and some are even willing to use their own funds (Onceuponatime) to help see certain initiatives through.  Still others are delegates being paid to do what they do, and it in marketing...persistence matters.  Most results are not seen overnight. 

I believe that the Devs should be able to have more than one delegate, and I also believe that marketing delegates should work in teams and should pick out people who volunteer for them anyway, signing them on for a cut in the pay.  But this is just me and my opinion only matters as far as it matters to those who listen to it and, of course, myself (I usually tend to like my own ideas, though so don't trust my biased opinions on those merits alone). 

DPoS is going to be political.  We need to understand that.  THIS IS GOOD.  It is far better than lying to ourselves and everyone around us thinking some algorithm is better at ruling our lives than we are.  However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't be working to find better ways to incentivize participation on a deeper level from those who have the philosophies necessary to see this project through.  Which brings me to my last point. 

I think that unless someone can come here and show us an extensive list of all the things they have done, they should have a preliminary period of time when they must prove themselves to the community.  I say this because the people who are willing to do this are here for more than just the BTS in their pockets.  This is VITAL.  Why?  Because just like any network, we will experience some very hard times on the way to the top...and that means that the people who are here for more than money will likely stay here through the hard times (when we need them most).  This also means that when they have proven that, that we should have no qualms with paying them well--because we will know they are using those funds not only to enrich themselves, but to enrich all of us. 

Please consider voting if you guys haven't already. 

[davidpbrown]

To be honest Crypto-Prometheus I do not see these positions becoming extremely competitive until we reach a valuation of about 3-5x what it currently is.  In that time, a group of 5-10 marketing delegates can earn a lot of BTS without really showing anything for it.  And unless I go out and individually contact each marketing delegate and give a status update to the community whether they choose to do hangouts or refuse to, it will be very hard to incentivize them to come on for hangouts.  I can do this, but eventually marketing delegates will be some of the people with the largest stake in the network and I have to recognize that angering too many delegates can kick me and my crew out of a delegate position.  This is really a quandary for me because although I recognize just how important it is to give the community access to the inner-workings of everything, I also have to try to find a way to keep in the green so-to-speak (and that isn't even talking about wanting to reach my goal of 1 million BTS for my personal stash). 

That's an important statement of the reality at the moment but what it suggests is what I've been wondering.. are marketing delegates really worth 100%? At the moment can a marketing delegate really generate value equivalent to what that 100% BTS return will be? Perhaps marketing should be 40%-50% or some other agreed amount.. 100% represents developer level skill set.. and being blunt, none of the marketing delegates I've seen to date match that contribution.

In the event that the status quo continues for a large fraction of this year - which is what I expect, then do we really want to have gifted large influence to those who have not contributed - equal to those who have.

There's a problem of engagement here.. the voting is not compelling and the evidence is not compelling, so those on 100% at the moment are getting a free ride and then paid handsomely for it.

All very provocative I know but perhaps the challenge should be made more strongly, so that we do get a sense of who deserve what. Devs certainly should get the largest fraction but in time will they deserve 100% even?.. perhaps by then we will have resolved to have more delegates??

[fuzzy]

I think that delegate hangouts are an awesome idea, but I don't think you necessarily have to label them "marketing" or whatever else. Just let people sign up if they want to spend a few minutes talking to their "constituents".

Delegate positions will soon be much more competitive, so if you give them a free opportunity to advertise/campaign/answer questions, I think you will have them lining up around the block - no pun intended!

To be honest Crypto-Prometheus I do not see these positions becoming extremely competitive until we reach a valuation of about 3-5x what it currently is.  In that time, a group of 5-10 marketing delegates can earn a lot of BTS without really showing anything for it.  And unless I go out and individually contact each marketing delegate and give a status update to the community whether they choose to do hangouts or refuse to, it will be very hard to incentivize them to come on for hangouts.  I can do this, but eventually marketing delegates will be some of the people with the largest stake in the network and I have to recognize that angering too many delegates can kick me and my crew out of a delegate position.  This is really a quandary for me because although I recognize just how important it is to give the community access to the inner-workings of everything, I also have to try to find a way to keep in the green so-to-speak (and that isn't even talking about wanting to reach my goal of 1 million BTS for my personal stash). 

So I'm not sure how to move forward with respect to this.  All I do know is that I failed he community with Brian by not openly pushing for him to be more open with us.  If I had, we would likely be further ahead...

So now I feel like I'm in a position where I have to have learned something from this experience, but the dynamic is also slightly different. 


Btw....thank you for putting together the marketing newsletter.  That is at least a start!  Are you being paid for your services?

[CryptoPrometheus]

I think that delegate hangouts are an awesome idea, but I don't think you necessarily have to label them "marketing" or whatever else. Just let people sign up if they want to spend a few minutes talking to their "constituents".

Delegate positions will soon be much more competitive, so if you give them a free opportunity to advertise/campaign/answer questions, I think you will have them lining up around the block - no pun intended!