Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal

[jsidhu]

I agree with op.. Markets demands some kind of management reporting to community.. Informational only.. Keeps track of project progress and updates website or something.. Maybe a roadmap with a checklist.. More of a product manager.. He may be in contact with project managers and devs to get status updates. It is alot ofq work

Ive used jira alot and asana a little bit.. With jira you have full suite of tools including project tracking bug issuing and build process tied to issues tasks and projects. Once a release build happens you get a release log automatically. The build system parses commit logs from git to link to issues.. Devs just referennce the jira issue in the commit.. Is our build system working anyway? We seem to be running from src files on github or releases on github..

I actually set it all up for my company.. So i can hook it all up.. Apps talk over oauth.

[gamey]

no firing power , no management .

?

[toast]

You can poll shareholders for responses to a question or proposals. If it was convenient for people to respond to poll questions in proportion to their shares, what questions would you ask?

[btswildpig]

no firing power , no management .

[edilliam]

This whole forum is about suggestions. Saying things should be done faster is the type of discussion that frankly has little value.  You need to find something and do it !

Yes.

We need something like http://ideascale.com/, or maybe we should actually use ideascale...  I'm not sure if the free version would be sufficient, but it's pretty fly and functionally pretty much what we need.

The most supported ideas would rise to the top and get claimed, and accomplished by whatever team or individual was able to.
Ideas which did not receive support would wither away due to inaction or obscurity.

@gamey - how is trello looking?

A BitShares org chart would be helpful so we can avoid duplicating efforts and understand the initiatives which are being worked on by the many different parties involved.

Forums are not really the best platform for coordinating action.

I have no opinion on Asana/Trello and do not have the time to evaluate them.  Rgcrypto uses trello elsewhere and liked it.  Cass has the opposite opinion and an existing project  management setup with Asana.  I will try to push us to a decision because indecision will be what killed the DAC but ultimately I have no opinion.  This likely needs its own discussion as this point.

I use Trello + workflowy together personally, because Trello boards can get messy with too much information. Haven't used Asana, so can't judge which is best. Heard Asana is good for managing teams though.

[gamey]

This whole forum is about suggestions. Saying things should be done faster is the type of discussion that frankly has little value.  You need to find something and do it !

Yes.

We need something like http://ideascale.com/, or maybe we should actually use ideascale...  I'm not sure if the free version would be sufficient, but it's pretty fly and functionally pretty much what we need.

The most supported ideas would rise to the top and get claimed, and accomplished by whatever team or individual was able to.
Ideas which did not receive support would wither away due to inaction or obscurity.

@gamey - how is trello looking?

A BitShares org chart would be helpful so we can avoid duplicating efforts and understand the initiatives which are being worked on by the many different parties involved.

Forums are not really the best platform for coordinating action.

I have no opinion on Asana/Trello and do not have the time to evaluate them.  Rgcrypto uses trello elsewhere and liked it.  Cass has the opposite opinion and an existing project  management setup with Asana.  I will try to push us to a decision because indecision will be what killed the DAC but ultimately I have no opinion.  This likely needs its own discussion as this point.

[lovejoy]

This whole forum is about suggestions. Saying things should be done faster is the type of discussion that frankly has little value.  You need to find something and do it !

Yes.

We need something like http://ideascale.com/, or maybe we should actually use ideascale...  I'm not sure if the free version would be sufficient, but it's pretty fly and functionally pretty much what we need.

The most supported ideas would rise to the top and get claimed, and accomplished by whatever team or individual was able to.
Ideas which did not receive support would wither away due to inaction or obscurity.

@gamey - how is trello looking?

A BitShares org chart would be helpful so we can avoid duplicating efforts and understand the initiatives which are being worked on by the many different parties involved.

Forums are not really the best platform for coordinating action.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?

Wiki works but I don't know why you'd want such an unstructured approach to the data.  It makes it hard to manage the updates.  I would like to see  updates sorted by date so we can see those who haven't been around etc. I also like the idea of short updates so we can feed some of it into twitter and maybe push out some interesting tweets.

I am all for structured data.. just can't think of anything out of the box that would accomplish that though.

Microblogging sounds like what you are suggesting.. could use Status.net self-hosted and push out updates to twitter as well if necessary

We are planning a delegate launch and part of our strategy for management will be having a subdomain website setup to mirror our delegates name and will publish the URL in our details. There we will post updates and link it to all our social platforms. (G+ Twitter Linkedin Facebook).

I think if all delegates were to follow this same standard, BitShares would have their marketing taken care of.

Note I said ALL delegates, not just the 100%ers. I think if this became a standard for getting voted in, it would make it easy for members to follow them, would enhance the reach of the BitShares brand, and hey.. wouldn't hurt for whatever else the delegate is doing in their project in support of BitShares.

If all the delegates somehow can setup servers but don't know how to setup a website (whut?), then it seems a Multi User Wordpress site with domain support would do the trick. You can sort by dates with that.. and the main site can have a feed of all delegate sites.

Does that make sense?

Micro-blogging sounds close.  I don't know about expecting 3% delegates to give updates etc.  I'm not a big fan of pushing much management upon people but we are coming across a problem where things that are critical ... yet nothing is really being done because there is no one to do them.  The update site is one of them.  There are a few delegates I am concerned about.

Maybe thats the better approach?  Work from people complaining.. but then that doesn't generate positive marketing materials. I really don't know what the best software solution is.  A lot of that is determined by the skill set of the person creating the website.

I'm not the one to make the decision and there is the other problem.. I'm not sure who is at this point.  One thing i know is that creating things that don't have community support and then expecting things out of people can often to lead unmet expectations.  I'd say go for it  ... Fuz is making some sort of site.  You might want to discuss it with him a bit as he was looking at a wordpress site.

DOH! Soon as you said that I remembered that from long ago. Though I have no idea on its status. Been a long time since I heard anything about it. He might be able to tell more here on it if he likes.

I understand what you mean about community support etc. Sounds like if something serious is to be done a new thread should be created to gather some consensus and move on.

I understand the 3%ers not wanting to.. but even they have some pretty important projects that are worth being in the mix. Many of them already do the updates here in forums anyways.

I think before I do anything I need to hear from the teenagecheese to make sure it will make him happy.

Cheeser? Thoughts?

[gamey]

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?

Wiki works but I don't know why you'd want such an unstructured approach to the data.  It makes it hard to manage the updates.  I would like to see  updates sorted by date so we can see those who haven't been around etc. I also like the idea of short updates so we can feed some of it into twitter and maybe push out some interesting tweets.

I am all for structured data.. just can't think of anything out of the box that would accomplish that though.

Microblogging sounds like what you are suggesting.. could use Status.net self-hosted and push out updates to twitter as well if necessary

We are planning a delegate launch and part of our strategy for management will be having a subdomain website setup to mirror our delegates name and will publish the URL in our details. There we will post updates and link it to all our social platforms. (G+ Twitter Linkedin Facebook).

I think if all delegates were to follow this same standard, BitShares would have their marketing taken care of.

Note I said ALL delegates, not just the 100%ers. I think if this became a standard for getting voted in, it would make it easy for members to follow them, would enhance the reach of the BitShares brand, and hey.. wouldn't hurt for whatever else the delegate is doing in their project in support of BitShares.

If all the delegates somehow can setup servers but don't know how to setup a website (whut?), then it seems a Multi User Wordpress site with domain support would do the trick. You can sort by dates with that.. and the main site can have a feed of all delegate sites.

Does that make sense?

Micro-blogging sounds close.  I don't know about expecting 3% delegates to give updates etc.  I'm not a big fan of pushing much management upon people but we are coming across a problem where things that are critical ... yet nothing is really being done because there is no one to do them.  The update site is one of them.  There are a few delegates I am concerned about.

Maybe thats the better approach?  Work from people complaining.. but then that doesn't generate positive marketing materials. I really don't know what the best software solution is.  A lot of that is determined by the skill set of the person creating the website.

I'm not the one to make the decision and there is the other problem.. I'm not sure who is at this point.  One thing i know is that creating things that don't have community support and then expecting things out of people can often to lead unmet expectations.  I'd say go for it  ... Fuz is making some sort of site.  You might want to discuss it with him a bit as he was looking at a wordpress site.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Everyone, many of your answers to me are phrased as if I do not understand and am being ridiculous. You are acting as if this system is working perfectly and everything is getting done great. It is not doing that well though, barely anyone votes and many things are not getting done. I want to improve this mechanism.

I know it's supposed to be a decentralized system where bad delegates are voted out. I want it to be decentralized. Bitshares is a great basic concept, that is why I am here.

Stop taking my use of the word "management" so literally. Start assuming everything I suggest is supposed to fit within the decentralized framework of bitshares. We will make a lot more progress that way. If I have to literally type out everything I think in specific detail to make my point it would take too long. Work with me here, stop assuming all the negative possible intentions of my suggestions and instead assume the positive.

I am trying to find a find a way to improve bitshares. Help me.

Gamey and I have been engaged in discussing solutions. You are welcome to join in since you say you are eager to want to find ways to improve. Look at my last post.. suggestions?

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?

Wiki works but I don't know why you'd want such an unstructured approach to the data.  It makes it hard to manage the updates.  I would like to see  updates sorted by date so we can see those who haven't been around etc. I also like the idea of short updates so we can feed some of it into twitter and maybe push out some interesting tweets.

I am all for structured data.. just can't think of anything out of the box that would accomplish that though.

Microblogging sounds like what you are suggesting.. could use Status.net self-hosted and push out updates to twitter as well if necessary

We are planning a delegate launch and part of our strategy for management will be having a subdomain website setup to mirror our delegates name and will publish the URL in our details. There we will post updates and link it to all our social platforms. (G+ Twitter Linkedin Facebook).

I think if all delegates were to follow this same standard, BitShares would have their marketing taken care of.

Note I said ALL delegates, not just the 100%ers. I think if this became a standard for getting voted in, it would make it easy for members to follow them, would enhance the reach of the BitShares brand, and hey.. wouldn't hurt for whatever else the delegate is doing in their project in support of BitShares.

If all the delegates somehow can setup servers but don't know how to setup a website (whut?), then it seems a Multi User Wordpress site with domain support would do the trick. You can sort by dates with that.. and the main site can have a feed of all delegate sites.

Does that make sense?

[gamey]

I agree with teenagecheese's overall sentiment here, and not sure why people seem to be jumping down his throat. He's absolutely right the the current system flat out doesn't seem to be working, and appears to have some terrible inefficiencies at doing what it's supposed to do best -- incentivising shit to get done.

While another delegate may not be the right answer, the discussion to arrive at an answer is what's important. Because right now, shit stinks.

What exactly stinks?  You want the software development done faster?  Everyone does.  You're not swapping out developers and you're not firing them at this point.  Marketing?  Well.. we can ask rgcrypto to work harder.. and other paid delegates.  This whole forum is about suggestions. Saying things should be done faster is the type of discussion that frankly has little value.  You need to find something and do it !

I am quite confident the developers will be able to bring to us a fully functioning ecosystem with some of the better features of any crypto-currency.  Now will the network effect take off and start growing our market cap?  Perhaps.. but right not we don't have the value in the product.

It might be that we get it finished up .. then we have to work on merchants.  Right now we don't have a product most merchants would receive value from.  If you know of a way to get more developers on bottlenecks from delegate pay, then tell us.

[edilliam]

I think it's just a difference of perspective, some of us may well be overly optimistic and some are realists, some are pessimists etc. I see all the amazing stuff we are achieving and have achieved and will achieve. Does "right now shit stink"? No I don't think so at all. Can we improve and do better? Absolutely! I think we all agree on that.

If you call a mother's baby ugly, don't be surprised when she strongly disagrees with you. 

[teenagecheese]

Thank you. You understand. And I totally agree, it doesn't have to be another delegate. Just needs to be something. I should have come at this from another angle. The title should be: Help me figure out a way to improve bitshares, or something.

[nomoreheroes7]

I agree with teenagecheese's overall sentiment here, and not sure why people seem to be jumping down his throat. He's absolutely right the the current system flat out doesn't seem to be working, and appears to have some terrible inefficiencies at doing what it's supposed to do best -- incentivising shit to get done.

While another delegate may not be the right answer, the discussion to arrive at an answer is what's important. Because right now, shit stinks.

[teenagecheese]

Everyone, many of your answers to me are phrased as if I do not understand and am being ridiculous. You are acting as if this system is working perfectly and everything is getting done great. It is not doing that well though, barely anyone votes and many things are not getting done. I want to improve this mechanism.

I know it's supposed to be a decentralized system where bad delegates are voted out. I want it to be decentralized. Bitshares is a great basic concept, that is why I am here.

Stop taking my use of the word "management" so literally. Start assuming everything I suggest is supposed to fit within the decentralized framework of bitshares. We will make a lot more progress that way. If I have to literally type out everything I think in specific detail to make my point it would take too long. Work with me here, stop assuming all the negative possible intentions of my suggestions and instead assume the positive.

I am trying to find a find a way to improve bitshares. Help me.

[gamey]

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?

Wiki works but I don't know why you'd want such an unstructured approach to the data.  It makes it hard to manage the updates.  I would like to see  updates sorted by date so we can see those who haven't been around etc. I also like the idea of short updates so we can feed some of it into twitter and maybe push out some interesting tweets.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?

[gamey]

In the US lets say a very mediocre developer costs $70k a year.  We' pay a fraction of that.  This person has to understand the software codebase to even manage it.  So now we need 2 delegates to get the work from one person. etc. So they find others.. but they'll have to be overseas.  Now you basically have a software manager.  Are they doing to take the job for a delegate's pay?  Making a thread is great.. but the odds of finding the right person for this to work out is very hard.. and then if you find them, they'll likely need to have a lot of experience with hiring people from India etc.  Then they have to communicate the codebase to those Indian guys who won't give a crap about BitShares.. but before that they have to have a delegate voted in to pay for the work.  (Not picking on Indians here...)

So you see all these problems, and you come up with a solution.  It isn't bad it is just a tad naive.

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

[edilliam]

Management delegate? Don't forget, this is a leaderless, decentralized experiment. Who gives authority to this manager? Why should other delegates obey this delegate? The idea with the delegate system is that the best will be voted in by the stakeholders. If one delegate is failing and another potential delegate is doing a better job he should be voted in if he can communicate this effectively to the stakeholders. If the community feels like a role is needed and it doesn't exist then they will vote the best candidate in for this role. Management denotes hierarchy which is something we are trying to minimize as much as possible at the top level. This is really brand new exciting territory here! Sure, individual teams can and do have structure and hierarchy within them, but there should be no hierarchy across the top level of this DAC.

Management delegate, no. Communications delegate, perhaps.

I agree we need better roadmaps and we should improve our communication. Right now this is handled individually by the delegates. One of the problems is that there is so much stuff going on right now and so many different teams and individuals working in different areas and several sources of information about this that it can be hard for the casual observer to grasp all the goings on. The delegates that do not communicate effectively will probably be replaced by others of similar skill level that are better communicators. Don't forget we are still very close to the beginning of this experiment. We will evolve and get better at this over time.

One potential idea right now for example that I see would be for someone to create a site where all the delegates can have their own section to post details of what they have accomplished so far, what they are currently working on with regular updates, what their proposed business plans are, finances, budgets etc. The best delegates should rise to the top.

Edit: Also, like gamey, I saw the word management and jumped to the wrong conclusion looking back. Looks like we are in agreement then    However, I believe this sort of thing should be in a User Generated Content style. If one delegate is reporting on others, how will they report on themselves? They will also have bias on reporting others. Even if they try their very hardest to not be biased, there will always be some bias. I say let the delegates report themselves, but give them better structure in which to do so.

[teenagecheese]

Data Security Node, I of course I know what lmao means, I was asking for what he thought was so funny. He has now specifiied.

As for your point, of course it would need to be done in some kind objective impartial way. I was merely proposing a concept, you decided to put words in my mouth and specify details of the concept which would obviously not fit well in this decentralized ecosystem.

Furthermore, due to my current full time job and circumstances, it would be very difficult for me to provide adequate services as a delegate, thus I put up a proposal in hopes that I could spur someone else to do it.

[gamey]

Actually I was mainly being rude for no reason.  Carry on.  I thought you suggested this person motivate existing delegates somehow by themselves existing...

[eagleeye]

I propose anyone that wants to be a delegate who backs Method or Rgcrypto with there funding (meaning they dont take a salary initially) is allowed to be a delegate.

If the market cap of bitshares becomes 250 million they can all take small salaries (10% which would be like $1300 US a month)

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

lmao

Please elaborate.

I think it means "Laugh My Ass Off".

I can't speak for gamey, but if I had to guess, I think this meant he found your proposal funny.

What part? I am not sure, there is a lot to choose from. Perhaps the centralized delegate dictator idea that sort of has no place for a decentralized ecosystem in particular? My best guess.

If you aren't happy with the product development everything is open source, you can always create your own to contribute and create them in the manner you have outlined as your method of organization.

Hope this helped elaborate.

[teenagecheese]

lmao

Please elaborate.

[teenagecheese]

More about this:

"yes, I am on all of those except Nullstreet. Regardless, I was trying to make a point that we do not seem to have a solid plan for ultimate profitabity and adoption. We have some things in the works, but I do not feel they are enough. I do not feel that simply implementing those that are in the works is enough. Beside what I listed off the top of my head, I was asking to see a layout of the complete features planned that with make people use bitshares, bitassets, or other bitshares things.

I think we should have some central location where every feature that is going to happen is layed out with a schedule and who is working on them. Not just github for code, or Nullstreet for marketing, but everything in one place. This will help people to be able to vote out people that are not doing what they should and increase the productivity of delegates. I've just continued this idea on a new thread: Implementation/Management Delegate Proposal. Please read."

[gamey]

lmao

[teenagecheese]

So it seems I've spurred some discussion about bitOIL and there appears to be interest, but it also seems like nothing is going to develop from this.

Maybe there is not enough of a demand for bitOIL, but whether it happens or not  is not the point. How do we provide a mechanism to get actually put this, and any other ideas, into action?

This is a bigger discussion than bitOIL feeds. It is about improving the bitshares system to make it so things that are good and will increase the value get done. Currently they do not. I propose that we have an implementation/management delegate to choose ideas the community wants, find people to implement, and track, review, and announce their progress in a public forum (maybe bitsharesblocks?) so people can vote them out if they don't do it what they should, to motivate them to make progress.