Author Topic: Power of the community: Price recovery action 1  (Read 22250 times)

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Offline triox

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+5% The scarcity of reddit (and hackernews) forum comments  these days is quite noticable. Nul- street would have been on top of that in the past.

We've had some success of getting to r/bitcoin and HN in the past and it had zero effect on adoption or price.

Our marketing efforts are simply ineffective and we have no word of mouth effect. Public only listens to people they trust and admire and from the bitcoiner's point of view we're no different from a random alter-coin pushers and there's no incentive to get interested and research Bitshares.

Let's face it: we have a terrible distribution. The whole currency/company has been sold to a bunch of random nobodies like you and me with no reputation and no friends in the industry. Makes me appreciate the genius of Bitcoin's production model: if you wanted to get involved, it's future distribution was more or less a blank slate. With Bitshares anyone serious who wants to get involved will be disproportionately enriching a bunch of unknowns who own it.

What is needed are thought leaders and VCs with their contacts, reputation and clout. People who will integrate BitUSD into their verticals. People who will talk about Bitshares on conferences and in the media. People who can make things happen.

But VCs don't buy shares at market price. In fact it would be simply impossible to buy a substantial position from the market. VCs need to be offered something extra to get involved.

What Bitshares needs to survive and thrive is another funding round. It needs to be negotiated in secret and sadly, it has to screw over the existing shareholders (in the short run).

Offline toast

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dev-trial.misc.nikolai   This one is funny and I think is an inside joke with Toast. The guy this was intended for is gone, the fees paid off and was supposed be taken offline. But here it is still there banking money.

Wow that's funny and sad if true...

That delegate pays for miscellaneous development tasks useful as a dev evaluation, for example recently a bunch of people wrote tests (some not yet paid), and before that zach lym came to visit and it paid for that.

If you all prefer I take it offline instead of using it for discretionary development tasks then let me know, outside this thread I only got positive feedback on it
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Offline merivercap

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I don't believe delegate dilution has much to do with lower prices.   We are in a general bear market for crypto.  The demand side for crypto hasn't been that strong AND the shift from current investor's allocation from alt-coin to Bitcoin is increasing slightly.  Since Bitcoin dominates with 85% of  total market cap of crypto a small shift in favor of Bitcoin will suck a significant amount of the marketcap from the altcoin market.  It's analogous to when sentiment goes from small cap stocks to large cap stocks.  Furthermore I'm a firm believer in selling equity for growth.  That's how all startups and growth companies work. 

Furthermore delegate pay not only brings value to the system, it also gets new people involved as employee/owners and also releases more shares to the public so new investors can come in.  There's already a preception of a 'pre-mine' and the idea that original investors and whales want to just sit on their shares, do nothing and get rich off the technology is not a good business strategy or good for perception.  If that's the plan someone can probably quip: 'Might as well stick a fork in you cuz you're done.'  They would mean this figuratively and literally. 

All companies dilute.  From a seed/angel round to an A-B-C-D round of founding...and then an IPO.  You give up equity for cash in all these stages to grow.... I don't mean you should do it aimlessly, but it's standard practice.   There's also usually a good balance between business & operations/ product & technology/ sales & marketing. 

 
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If there were a real marketing initiative, they would've picked up on the current controversy with the Bitcoin Foundation and how Bitshares solved the primary concern and original intent of the BF, how to fund core Devs? Bitshares should've been mentioned in every single thread I read on reddit over the past few days on the issue. I scrolled through most of the comments and saw replies from some of the bitcoin celebs concerned about how Devs would get funded and who would administrate those funds. Not a single Bitshares reference. Missed opportunity with a majority of the 100's being marketing delegates.

 +5% The scarcity of reddit (and hackernews) forum comments  these days is quite noticable. Nul- street would have been on top of that in the past.

I agree that this would be a perfect opportunity to highlight the DAC model after the whole Bitcoin Foundation debacle.  Of course we probably should work out the kinks a bit and more heavily promote our DAC when operations are humming.  In any case I am fascinated with this DAC experiment and think it can work out very well.   I don't think operations have been that inefficient and relative to traditional startups the cash burn rate has been below average.  However we can always improve and direct resources that will provide the most value in the long run.  I do think product & tech development should be paid more. 

With that said maybe we can put a website together that highlights the delegates & responsibilities and have another section where we can expect weekly progress reports and have some accountability (we can keep this open or private to members).  Eventually I think we need to put a delegate team page with pictures for the bitShares DAC delegates.  I know some may be uncomfortable so it shouldn't be required, but whenever you look at a company you want to know who is behind it.  It brings the human element to the project.  Just like the Peer-to-Peer tour, Stan, Bytemaster etc bring a human element to bitShares.  You gain trust much faster from others that way.  That's an advantage Bitshares will always have over the anonymous guys from NXT, Darkcoin etc.  It would be good to recruit more females and global talent because money is universal and we want everyone involved.   It's great we have a strong Chinese contingent. 

Anyways you can link up a delegate website to the Bitshareblocks.com's delegate page, but keep it running seperately.  It can have real-time financials totally transparent for everyone to see.  When you think about the level of transparency you can have with the DAC compared to regular corporations & governments, this system is definitely revolutionary.  I can grab the domain: btsdac.org if people like that domain?  I can even set up a simple Wordpress site, but we have to have someone build a data feed of delegate info to it.  The website page can read:  BitShares DAC, 'The World's First Decentralized Autonomous Company'...  anyways what do you all think?
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Offline fuzzy

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If there were a real marketing initiative, they would've picked up on the current controversy with the Bitcoin Foundation and how Bitshares solved the primary concern and original intent of the BF, how to fund core Devs? Bitshares should've been mentioned in every single thread I read on reddit over the past few days on the issue. I scrolled through most of the comments and saw replies from some of the bitcoin celebs concerned about how Devs would get funded and who would administrate those funds. Not a single Bitshares reference. Missed opportunity with a majority of the 100's being marketing delegates.

 +5% The scarcity of reddit (and hackernews) forum comments  these days is quite noticable. Nul- street would have been on top of that in the past.

Why would anyone want to want to be a delegate at a lower marketcap when people like newmine make them out to be freeloaders? 

Sure, there is cleaning up to be done to a degree, but newmine is guaranteed to not be the guy to follow advice on how to clean it up.

If I were newmine. I'd try to add value. I'd say "let's get a team of 10 people and get them all paid by a 100% delegate to zerg reddit threads. Let's have someone we trust head it up and report back to us"

Sincerely wish you'd try to take the solutions angle as opposed to the "hang everybody" angle.
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julian1

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If there were a real marketing initiative, they would've picked up on the current controversy with the Bitcoin Foundation and how Bitshares solved the primary concern and original intent of the BF, how to fund core Devs? Bitshares should've been mentioned in every single thread I read on reddit over the past few days on the issue. I scrolled through most of the comments and saw replies from some of the bitcoin celebs concerned about how Devs would get funded and who would administrate those funds. Not a single Bitshares reference. Missed opportunity with a majority of the 100's being marketing delegates.

 +5% The scarcity of reddit (and hackernews) forum comments  these days is quite noticable. Nul- street would have been on top of that in the past.


Offline mf-tzo

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As much as I want to disagree with Newmine there are some delegates on this list that I think shouldn't be there. In the end of the day we must all vote responsibly. Most of the people on this list should be there though.

However I don't think that this has anything to do with the price even if some are voted out..

Offline fuzzy

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dev-trial.misc.nikolai   This one is funny and I think is an inside joke with Toast. The guy this was intended for is gone, the fees paid off and was supposed be taken offline. But here it is still there banking money.

Wow that's funny and sad if true...
Well I hate to call it, but Nikolai really doesn't let anyone know what he is up to. However I can pretty much say for certain he has likely not been paid enough for the services he DID offer in the past, so it is really hard for me to call it.

As a matter of fact, our delegate hangouts are precisely to give the community the ability to come on and ask  difficult questions.  That is why it's there.  Of course lately I'm getting frustrated by newmine because the pattern I see with him is thus: only spend time speaking of the negative, expect to get rich and do nothing in return.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 10:21:50 pm by fuzzy »
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Offline fuzzy

A lot of these delegates have collected upwards of half a million BTS to this point. Is that enough for what they have done? A lot have had other forms of payment for their contributions whether it was from I3 themselves or are now able to make side profits off the projects the were working on.


Here are the 100's and what it seems they are doing or have done:


market.cn.group101   Chinese marketing group. What effect have they had?

www.bts-hk   Another Chinese marketing team?

dev0.nikolai   As far as I can tell, he no longer is a Dev with BTS but with PLAY/NOTE

dev.bitsharesblocks   Created BitsharesBlocks.com Does this warrant a delegate pay forever? Half a million BTS fair enough for that contribution?

bm.payroll.riverhead Lead core Dev. Paid large sums of BTS by I3's AGS funds.

tradebts.gulu    Earns money through exchange fees.

marketing.methodx   Marketing group. MethodX gave up the reigns to others and they are putting out a newsletter.

elmato   He is part of the Argentina-marketing.matt608 team. Another Marketing team.

del0.cass   he made the logo and other graphics stuff. Again, is half a million enough pay for that contribution?

argentina-marketing.matt608    Marketing delegate who has left and supposedly handed the reigns over to a different group that include elmato, another 100% delegate.

jcalfee1-developer-team.helper.liondani   developer of online wallet paid by I3. No longer full-time Dev.?

developer.vikram   Core Dev actively working, also paid by I3 in large sums of BTS.

delegate-dev1.btsnow       A Dev group paid by I3 who also is making money off exchange fees from blocktrade.us

delegate-dev2.btsnow           Redundant delegate

media.bitscape   Earning money from Cryptofresh store. They also have another delegate. Really?

dev-metaexchange.monsterer   Earning money from exchange fees.......

delegate.rgcrypto   Another marketing delegate. Seems to be a lot of talk and no results. Although not as much since his weekly updates ceased and his referrals dried up after the initial delegate push.

valzav.payroll.testz   not sure what he does since PTS is gone bye bye. ??

stan.delegate.xeldal   Stan is a mouthpiece who already has a retirement income and a huge stash of BTS from AGS paid by I3.

delegate-dev4.btsnow        Redundant delegate

delegate-dev3.btsnow           Wow, another redundant delegate.

fuzzy.beyondbitcoin   Mumble chats moderator. Is it worth a 100% delegate, as much pay as a Dev?

dev-trial.misc.nikolai   This one is funny and I think is an inside joke with Toast. The guy this was intended for is gone, the fees paid off and was supposed be taken offline. But here it is still there banking money.

dev.nathanhourt.com    Lightweight Dev paid by I3

dev0.theoretical   Another Dev paid by I3 but with a sad story of being duped into going "all in".

dev.sidhujag   Another Dev paid by I3 for shopping cart plugin support

dacx.baozou   Crowd funded and VC funded, why do they need a delegate. (One of the elusive Chinese whales perhaps?)

dev-pc.bitcube         Puts in a few hours per month on bugs

provisional.bitscape   Redundant delegate

Lol...newmine. you spend so little time behind the scenes. You think content just comes to us begging to connect with the community? Do you think the mumble server is free? Do you know of a free alternative that provides encrypted comms, a press pass and recording equipment for all and doesn't rely on a third party and thus the jurisdiction out of which that third party operates?  Do you know how hard and time consuming is to edit material?  Do you know how hard it is to monetize our content since we are almost exclusively forced to focus on bitshares?
Do you think another ecosystem wouldn't pay us handsomely to leave bitshares and do what we do for them instead?  Do you think I haven't been approached and asked as much by people representing parties that would like to steal value from bitshares?

Oh and for the record, if people want me to stop doing this it would be the EASY path for me (though I would hate to hurt those who work for us at already low pay compared to what thy get for their skills on the open market..

But then again I'm certain the entire team would be far wealthier in terms of $s if we didn't provide this service and instead worked extra jobs in the corrupt fiat world and relegated the rest of our time to come on here and constantly complain.

Of course I'm not the only delegate on this list so please feel free to speak up if you have been called out by the all knowing newmine.

You speak and show how little you know of what is really going on behind the scenes. You think that what is in the surface is all there is.  You are so wrong.
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jaran

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dev-trial.misc.nikolai   This one is funny and I think is an inside joke with Toast. The guy this was intended for is gone, the fees paid off and was supposed be taken offline. But here it is still there banking money.

Wow that's funny and sad if true...

Offline NewMine

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I'm in favor, but I'm not sure the 100% delegates are all influential. More like a few whales that are lazy and just pick whichever delegates the crowd seems to favor.

I also think the merger dilution has a much worse effect than delegate inflation, but both are pretty terrible.

Fair enough.

I think some of the Devs should stay but maybe at a lesser percentage. That way the perception is the Devs aren't taking full advantage of what is available. Let's be honest,  whether it's 100% or 50%, none of the Devs are relying on this as their primary income at this point.

If there were a real marketing initiative, they would've picked up on the current controversy with the Bitcoin Foundation and how Bitshares solved the primary concern and original intent of the BF, how to fund core Devs? Bitshares should've been mentioned in every single thread I read on reddit over the past few days on the issue. I scrolled through most of the comments and saw replies from some of the bitcoin celebs concerned about how Devs would get funded and who would administrate those funds. Not a single Bitshares reference. Missed opportunity with a majority of the 100's being marketing delegates.

I hate the dilution too, but you can't change it without killing the entire project. A HardFork deleting what hasn't been claimed or a roll back will negatively affect Bitshares in a way we have never seen.

Offline NewMine

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A lot of these delegates have collected upwards of half a million BTS to this point. Is that enough for what they have done? A lot have had other forms of payment for their contributions whether it was from I3 themselves or are now able to make side profits off the projects the were working on.


Here are the 100's and what it seems they are doing or have done:


market.cn.group101   Chinese marketing group. What effect have they had?

www.bts-hk   Another Chinese marketing team?

dev0.nikolai   As far as I can tell, he no longer is a Dev with BTS but with PLAY/NOTE

dev.bitsharesblocks   Created BitsharesBlocks.com Does this warrant a delegate pay forever? Half a million BTS fair enough for that contribution?

bm.payroll.riverhead Lead core Dev. Paid large sums of BTS by I3's AGS funds.

tradebts.gulu    Earns money through exchange fees.

marketing.methodx   Marketing group. MethodX gave up the reigns to others and they are putting out a newsletter.

elmato   He is part of the Argentina-marketing.matt608 team. Another Marketing team.

del0.cass   he made the logo and other graphics stuff. Again, is half a million enough pay for that contribution?

argentina-marketing.matt608    Marketing delegate who has left and supposedly handed the reigns over to a different group that include elmato, another 100% delegate.

jcalfee1-developer-team.helper.liondani   developer of online wallet paid by I3. No longer full-time Dev.?

developer.vikram   Core Dev actively working, also paid by I3 in large sums of BTS.

delegate-dev1.btsnow       A Dev group paid by I3 who also is making money off exchange fees from blocktrade.us

delegate-dev2.btsnow           Redundant delegate

media.bitscape   Earning money from Cryptofresh store. They also have another delegate. Really?

dev-metaexchange.monsterer   Earning money from exchange fees.......

delegate.rgcrypto   Another marketing delegate. Seems to be a lot of talk and no results. Although not as much since his weekly updates ceased and his referrals dried up after the initial delegate push.

valzav.payroll.testz   not sure what he does since PTS is gone bye bye. ??

stan.delegate.xeldal   Stan is a mouthpiece who already has a retirement income and a huge stash of BTS from AGS paid by I3.

delegate-dev4.btsnow        Redundant delegate

delegate-dev3.btsnow           Wow, another redundant delegate.

fuzzy.beyondbitcoin   Mumble chats moderator. Is it worth a 100% delegate, as much pay as a Dev?

dev-trial.misc.nikolai   This one is funny and I think is an inside joke with Toast. The guy this was intended for is gone, the fees paid off and was supposed be taken offline. But here it is still there banking money.

dev.nathanhourt.com    Lightweight Dev paid by I3

dev0.theoretical   Another Dev paid by I3 but with a sad story of being duped into going "all in".

dev.sidhujag   Another Dev paid by I3 for shopping cart plugin support

dacx.baozou   Crowd funded and VC funded, why do they need a delegate. (One of the elusive Chinese whales perhaps?)

dev-pc.bitcube         Puts in a few hours per month on bugs

provisional.bitscape   Redundant delegate

Offline NewMine

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You really think that downward pressure comes from 100% pay rate delegates (at least 50% of they are developers of BitShares)?  :)
Negative perception too.


Offline Frodo

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And the worst proposal of the month award goes to ... NewMine. Congrats.