Why BitShares isn't Taking off and What we are doing about it.

[luckybit]

We need a business opportunity inside the wallet, one is lending business for traders.
Like I can lend my bitUSD so traders can short any market trading bitUSD at any price they want with no cover expiration as long as they continue to pay the % fee daily.
Then I can earn daily % of interest with % fee to bitshares as well.  Like how bitfinex,com works, but it is better from decentralized exchanger.

Another business opportunity  is insurance to lenders. 

How nice to invest more fiat money if we have this features in the wallet.

just my

We also need margin trading, and some composite indexes.

[donkeypong]

I am glad I am not the only one, who finds this idea attractive. Is there enough liquidity? I don't know, but I will tell my perspective: I am a conservative investor in BTS terms, but I trust the bitUSD peg to hold and I believe, it would hold also for other assets (if they were useful - such as indexes). And indexes are far less speculative investment than BTS, so I could invest like 2x - 3x more than I am currently in BTS

To me, a referral program is completely worthless. At present I don't tell my friends/family about BitShares, because there is nothing useful for them here (I just discuss with them the theoretical aspects of BS, mostly without mentioning it). And a referral program won't change it. On the other hand, as soon as there appears something useful for them in BitShares, I will begin spreading the word WITH or WITHOUT the referral program.

My priorities:

1) Finish 1.0 and introduce other pegged assets (stocks, indexes, commodities)
2) Wait for the word to spread + use ordinary marketing channels
3) If this doesn't help, start referral program

#1 is a must. #'s 2 and 3 could be done together. For many successful businesses, building a robust referral network IS part of ordinary marketing.

[nz]

I am glad I am not the only one, who finds this idea attractive. Is there enough liquidity? I don't know, but I will tell my perspective: I am a conservative investor in BTS terms, but I trust the bitUSD peg to hold and I believe, it would hold also for other assets (if they were useful - such as indexes). And indexes are far less speculative investment than BTS, so I could invest like 2x - 3x more than I am currently in BTS

To me, a referral program is completely worthless. At present I don't tell my friends/family about BitShares, because there is nothing useful for them here (I just discuss with them the theoretical aspects of BS, mostly without mentioning it). And a referral program won't change it. On the other hand, as soon as there appears something useful for them in BitShares, I will begin spreading the word WITH or WITHOUT the referral program.

My priorities:

1) Finish 1.0 and introduce other pegged assets (stocks, indexes, commodities)
2) Wait for the word to spread + use ordinary marketing channels
3) If this doesn't help, start referral program

This makes the most sense from everything i have read so far. Practical and realistic IMO.

[fuzzy]

I will take advantage of this thread being used for showing what people want in bs and add my opinion: Originally I came to BitShares because I was looking for a platform allowing easy trading of stocks (particulary indexes). BitUSD is a huge thing, I love it, but it needs merchant adoption to be useful. Trading stocks would be hugely beneficial alone, because the cost for an ordinary mortal to enter the stock market is quite big. If we had (pegged) stocks trading platform, we would get plenty of users AND we would have a use case for bitUSD. Also when trading bitUSD <=> bitStocks, you don't need gateways as desperately as we do now, because you only enter once, then gamble the market or hold for an extended period of time, and leave once a while after making some profit.

tldr> BitShares were supposed to be a trading platform. Trading currencies is a gamble, nobody (few) wants to do that. We need bitStocks! bitIndexes in particular..

 

finally something gave me hope again just reading it!

PS we need CFDs like trading and the option for leverage in general ...

Totally agree. options would be great.

 

Do we have enough liquidity to hold the pegs though?

I am glad I am not the only one, who finds this idea attractive. Is there enough liquidity? I don't know, but I will tell my perspective: I am a conservative investor in BTS terms, but I trust the bitUSD peg to hold and I believe, it would hold also for other assets (if they were useful - such as indexes). And indexes are far less speculative investment than BTS, so I could invest like 2x - 3x more than I am currently in BTS

To me, a referral program is completely worthless. At present I don't tell my friends/family about BitShares, because there is nothing useful for them here (I just discuss with them the theoretical aspects of BS, mostly without mentioning it). And a referral program won't change it. On the other hand, as soon as there appears something useful for them in BitShares, I will begin spreading the word WITH or WITHOUT the referral program.

My priorities:

1) Finish 1.0 and introduce other pegged assets (stocks, indexes, commodities)
2) Wait for the word to spread + use ordinary marketing channels
3) If this doesn't help, start referral program

Got my 

Now this is what I call solution-oriented, constructive feedback. Maybe we should have you giving your thoughts more often.

[MrJeans]

I will take advantage of this thread being used for showing what people want in bs and add my opinion: Originally I came to BitShares because I was looking for a platform allowing easy trading of stocks (particulary indexes). BitUSD is a huge thing, I love it, but it needs merchant adoption to be useful. Trading stocks would be hugely beneficial alone, because the cost for an ordinary mortal to enter the stock market is quite big. If we had (pegged) stocks trading platform, we would get plenty of users AND we would have a use case for bitUSD. Also when trading bitUSD <=> bitStocks, you don't need gateways as desperately as we do now, because you only enter once, then gamble the market or hold for an extended period of time, and leave once a while after making some profit.

tldr> BitShares were supposed to be a trading platform. Trading currencies is a gamble, nobody (few) wants to do that. We need bitStocks! bitIndexes in particular..

 

finally something gave me hope again just reading it!

PS we need CFDs like trading and the option for leverage in general ...

Totally agree. options would be great.

 

Do we have enough liquidity to hold the pegs though?

I am glad I am not the only one, who finds this idea attractive. Is there enough liquidity? I don't know, but I will tell my perspective: I am a conservative investor in BTS terms, but I trust the bitUSD peg to hold and I believe, it would hold also for other assets (if they were useful - such as indexes). And indexes are far less speculative investment than BTS, so I could invest like 2x - 3x more than I am currently in BTS

To me, a referral program is completely worthless. At present I don't tell my friends/family about BitShares, because there is nothing useful for them here (I just discuss with them the theoretical aspects of BS, mostly without mentioning it). And a referral program won't change it. On the other hand, as soon as there appears something useful for them in BitShares, I will begin spreading the word WITH or WITHOUT the referral program.

My priorities:

1) Finish 1.0 and introduce other pegged assets (stocks, indexes, commodities)
2) Wait for the word to spread + use ordinary marketing channels
3) If this doesn't help, start referral program

Got my 

[speedy]

We need a business opportunity inside the wallet, one is lending business for traders.
Like I can lend my bitUSD so traders can short any market trading bitUSD at any price they want with no cover expiration as long as they continue to pay the % fee daily.
Then I can earn daily % of interest with % fee to bitshares as well.  Like how bitfinex,com works, but it is better from decentralized exchanger.

Another business opportunity  is insurance to lenders. 

How nice to invest more fiat money if we have this features in the wallet.

just my

Yes! Unfortunately bond market is post 1.0.

[joele]

We need a business opportunity inside the wallet, one is lending business for traders.
Like I can lend my bitUSD so traders can short any market trading bitUSD at any price they want with no cover expiration as long as they continue to pay the % fee daily.
Then I can earn daily % of interest with % fee to bitshares as well.  Like how bitfinex,com works, but it is better from decentralized exchanger.

Another business opportunity  is insurance to lenders. 

How nice to invest more fiat money if we have this features in the wallet.

just my

[xh3]

This is what I see....


Bitshares is :

it needs to be


so that it can be used as



to build



and eventually




individual users are great, but what if bitshares could be used as a protocol by larger businesses.  That would drive business by orders of magnitude, and it seems to me that there are thousands of use cases out there.  The engine could do it all if it were solid enough for people to place large bets upon.

[svk]

A stock split is when a company divides existing shares into additional shares (you can also do the reverse). The market cap remains the same but the price per share will decrease by the ratio of new shares to old shares.

ETFs or indexes would mitigate this kind of issue though, any individual stock split will have very little effect on the index.

But if we have a BitAsset that tracks an individual share, then this is still a problem. We cant always use indexes.

Maybe one way to solve this problem is to have a BitStock that tracks a portion of the entire market cap of the company, which like you said stays the same after a split.

I'm a bit of a Boglehead so I'm not really interested in individual stocks anyway

[speedy]

A stock split is when a company divides existing shares into additional shares (you can also do the reverse). The market cap remains the same but the price per share will decrease by the ratio of new shares to old shares.

ETFs or indexes would mitigate this kind of issue though, any individual stock split will have very little effect on the index.

But if we have a BitAsset that tracks an individual share, then this is still a problem. We cant always use indexes.

Maybe one way to solve this problem is to have a BitStock that tracks a portion of the entire market cap of the company, which like you said stays the same after a split.

[svk]

I also believe we should add stocks as market assets, specifically I'd like to see something like Vanguard ETFs. Google provides realtime stock prices so feeds should not be an issue, the only thing holding us back is the price of registration.

Stock splits are holding us back too. Delegates would have to provide a feed that says when a stock is split, otherwise shorters make 100% instantly.

I am not a trader nor very familiar with all of those .. but why would you want to have a stock split if you can issue an asset with precisions >1 ..
same thing with bitcoin .. you don't need to buy a 'whole' bitcoin

A stock split is when a company divides existing shares into additional shares (you can also do the reverse). The market cap remains the same but the price per share will decrease by the ratio of new shares to old shares.

ETFs or indexes would mitigate this kind of issue though, any individual stock split will have very little effect on the index.

[speedy]

Companies do stock splits when the cost of the share gets too high, because you cant buy half a share. Its psychological. Yes you may be able to buy half a BitAAPL, but the asset that it tracks can only be bought whole.

I think Apple did one around when their stock price was $700.

[btswildpig]

From what you all tell me of Dark, it looks like they are supporting their price NuBits style, offering interest to encourage holding.  As long as the interest rate is above the long-term price decline everyone holding is breaking even.

I got to thinking about why it is so hard to bootstrap a business in crypto and it is because NEW investors are always bailing out OLD investors which sucks up all of the capital.   We can easily resolve all of this by placing unclaimed BTS from delegates INTO a yield fund for BTS holders.   Having a yield fund would encourage people to move their money off of exchanges and to hold it for longer periods of time. 

The side effect of a yield fund is that it wouldn't actually debase ANYONE except those who are looking to cash out short term. IE: transfer of value from those who want short term liquidity to those who are in this for the long run.

In effect YIELD == DRK model.  Whether or not this is a good idea remains to be seen.

It won't encourage holding . Exchanges can easily "honor" the yield on their site so that people won't leave .
Also I doubt Dark's price is base on any of its features  , but rather a really well funded group of speculators to pump it .

The difference between the interest given by the banks and the interest in crypto is that , interest given by banks actually come from their business , from the borrower ,  so it's an actual wealth for the holders . While interest in crypto only gives you coins , but doesn't add extra value to the existing system , so in the end you get more coins , but you don't get more value .

The only way this will work well is the kind of interest supported by the business income instead of delegate dilution .

[xeroc]

I also believe we should add stocks as market assets, specifically I'd like to see something like Vanguard ETFs. Google provides realtime stock prices so feeds should not be an issue, the only thing holding us back is the price of registration.

Stock splits are holding us back too. Delegates would have to provide a feed that says when a stock is split, otherwise shorters make 100% instantly.

I am not a trader nor very familiar with all of those .. but why would you want to have a stock split if you can issue an asset with precisions >1 ..
same thing with bitcoin .. you don't need to buy a 'whole' bitcoin

[speedy]

I also believe we should add stocks as market assets, specifically I'd like to see something like Vanguard ETFs. Google provides realtime stock prices so feeds should not be an issue, the only thing holding us back is the price of registration.

Stock splits are holding us back too. Delegates would have to provide a feed that says when a stock is split, otherwise shorters make 100% instantly.