BitAssets 3.0 - For Community Review

[btswildpig]

I think I'm missing the crux of the problem solved by BitAssets 3.0.  I feel like bitAssets have tracked pretty well considering some nasty bugs that should just now be fixed in the upcoming hard fork, the drop in BTS, shorters not realizing they can't cover with their collateral etc.

Will this peg "hold", yes it will.   Will it always be worth at least $1 yes.   Will the cost to buy it sometimes be far more than $1, YES.   

So we can now say that BitUSD has a FLOOR of $1 and can go up from there.   As a merchant / consumer that is all you care about (the floor).  The presence of a floor means that people can trade USD for BitUSD and purchase things with BitUSD without having to think about whether it is worth $1.    The only people that actually have to think about whether to buy at $1.05 or not are traders... they take the risk that short demand will increase and push the price back down toward $1.00.  On the other hand, in a bear market short demand may decrease and push BitUSD up to $1.10. 

I generally disagree that the price will remain above $1 or generally trade around $1.05 when it's only convertible at 99%.   I think that bitAsset holders will need to use the force settle at 99% a lot to get their value and it won't be just a theoretical backstop.  Therefore I think the price feed will have more power in this system because the price feed specifically determines the price you pay when you convert.

I think the rule no shorting below the feed was a good rule because it protected the market without specifically forcing people to do something, just preventing people from doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway.  I don't know why the desire to get rid of this rule, not sure if it's just for easier implementation.

I also feel like when you add extra parameters it makes the system sound more complicated to me and I feel like people want to know why these are the right numbers:
Settle at 99% of the feed
with 24hrs notice
with a maximum of 5% of supply convertible per day.
Shorts can vote to force settle the market with 30day notice
giving USD holders a 10% premium.

Low liquidity is the issue .
If BTA demands more premium , then it'll lose attractiveness at this early age . If no premium , even with the bug fix , the high demand for BTA brings covering pressure will still makes shorts not wanting to continue anymore . Without liquidity , BTA is useless for the outside world .

[Agent86]

I think I'm missing the crux of the problem solved by BitAssets 3.0.  I feel like bitAssets have tracked pretty well considering some nasty bugs that should just now be fixed in the upcoming hard fork, the drop in BTS, shorters not realizing they can't cover with their collateral etc.

Will this peg "hold", yes it will.   Will it always be worth at least $1 yes.   Will the cost to buy it sometimes be far more than $1, YES.   

So we can now say that BitUSD has a FLOOR of $1 and can go up from there.   As a merchant / consumer that is all you care about (the floor).  The presence of a floor means that people can trade USD for BitUSD and purchase things with BitUSD without having to think about whether it is worth $1.    The only people that actually have to think about whether to buy at $1.05 or not are traders... they take the risk that short demand will increase and push the price back down toward $1.00.  On the other hand, in a bear market short demand may decrease and push BitUSD up to $1.10. 

I generally disagree that the price will remain above $1 or generally trade around $1.05 when it's only convertible at 99%.   I think that bitAsset holders will need to use the force settle at 99% a lot to get their value and it won't be just a theoretical backstop.  Therefore I think the price feed will have more power in this system because the price feed specifically determines the price you pay when you convert.

I think the rule no shorting below the feed was a good rule because it protected the market without specifically forcing people to do something, just preventing people from doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway.  I don't know why the desire to get rid of this rule, not sure if it's just for easier implementation.

I also feel like when you add extra parameters it makes the system sound more complicated to me and I feel like people want to know why these are the right numbers:
Settle at 99% of the feed
with 24hrs notice
with a maximum of 5% of supply convertible per day.
Shorts can vote to force settle the market with 30day notice
giving USD holders a 10% premium.

[bytemaster]

To clarify, BitAssets 3.0 might replace existing BitAssets eg BitGold with a new hard fork at some stage? Will BitAssets that currently exist be mapped straight into the 3.0 system?

from BM's friday comments on beyond bitcoin: BTA3.0 will coexist with the current system, but BM expects that the new system will be preferred. The old system will naturally wind down, and if it totally winds down it could be disabled with a hardfork.

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

Are delegates supposed to publish feeds for the old assets? What if they refuse and nobody can unwind at market prices? Are we sure this has been thought through compketely?

what happens with bitUSD that are unaccessable due to lost keys?

Same thing that happens to BitUSD that are held by someone as savings for ever.  It requires someone to be short forever and will ultimately push up the price of BitUSD above $1 if there is no-one willing to short

[xeroc]

To clarify, BitAssets 3.0 might replace existing BitAssets eg BitGold with a new hard fork at some stage? Will BitAssets that currently exist be mapped straight into the 3.0 system?

from BM's friday comments on beyond bitcoin: BTA3.0 will coexist with the current system, but BM expects that the new system will be preferred. The old system will naturally wind down, and if it totally winds down it could be disabled with a hardfork.

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

Are delegates supposed to publish feeds for the old assets? What if they refuse and nobody can unwind at market prices? Are we sure this has been thought through compketely?

what happens with bitUSD that are unaccessable due to lost keys?

[NewMine]

To clarify, BitAssets 3.0 might replace existing BitAssets eg BitGold with a new hard fork at some stage? Will BitAssets that currently exist be mapped straight into the 3.0 system?

from BM's friday comments on beyond bitcoin: BTA3.0 will coexist with the current system, but BM expects that the new system will be preferred. The old system will naturally wind down, and if it totally winds down it could be disabled with a hardfork.

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

Are delegates supposed to publish feeds for the old assets? What if they refuse and nobody can unwind at market prices? Are we sure this has been thought through compketely?

[bytemaster]

So its doing away with the concept of margin calls and replacing it with forced settlement.  Unlike a margin call, which is triggered whenever the spot price (feed price in this case) moves beyond collateral amt, a forced settlement needs to meet two conditions: 1) authorization by a long holder and 2) being an account with least collateralize amt.

Are there automatic margin calls in BitAssets 3.0?

It isn't mentioned in the description of BitAssets 3.0 nor could I find any post that clarifies it.  Is the above quote a correct interpretation?

Yes low collateral results in margin calls automatically.

[Agent86]

So its doing away with the concept of margin calls and replacing it with forced settlement.  Unlike a margin call, which is triggered whenever the spot price (feed price in this case) moves beyond collateral amt, a forced settlement needs to meet two conditions: 1) authorization by a long holder and 2) being an account with least collateralize amt.

Are there automatic margin calls in BitAssets 3.0?

It isn't mentioned in the description of BitAssets 3.0 nor could I find any post that clarifies it.  Is the above quote a correct interpretation?

[Ander]

To clarify, BitAssets 3.0 might replace existing BitAssets eg BitGold with a new hard fork at some stage? Will BitAssets that currently exist be mapped straight into the 3.0 system?

from BM's friday comments on beyond bitcoin: BTA3.0 will coexist with the current system, but BM expects that the new system will be preferred. The old system will naturally wind down, and if it totally winds down it could be disabled with a hardfork.

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

They need to be the same imo.  Just carry over from current system to new one when the hardfork occurs for bitassets 3.0.  If people don't want the new version they can sell beforehand.

[Chronos]

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." 

[pgbit]

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

We don't know yet how they will be "coexisting" .. BM hasn't told us yet .. let's see

For what its worth, my own view is that it very definitely should be the same, to enhance overall stability and trust in the network.

[xeroc]

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

We don't know yet how they will be "coexisting" .. BM hasn't told us yet .. let's see

[pgbit]

To clarify, BitAssets 3.0 might replace existing BitAssets eg BitGold with a new hard fork at some stage? Will BitAssets that currently exist be mapped straight into the 3.0 system?

from BM's friday comments on beyond bitcoin: BTA3.0 will coexist with the current system, but BM expects that the new system will be preferred. The old system will naturally wind down, and if it totally winds down it could be disabled with a hardfork.

Ohhhh. So existing BitGold is not the same as BitGold 3.0?

[zerosum]

Sorry if this has been covered, it has been a few days since I read all of this.  I just want to make sure this was brought up...

So my understanding is that a bitAsset holder can call a settlement at X% Y days in advanced.  That settlement executes at the price feed on expiration...Can this request be canceled?

My concern is that there should a only a short period of time where the settlement request can be canceled.  The main purpose is to avoid a lot of canceling in the last minutes when the price feed happens to be skewed in the undesired direction.  Given a known predictable settlement queue, shorts can plan better and decide what to do with there collateral or position.

  Allowing people to enter/exit the line allows them to manipulate the market by sending fake signals.    The settlement line is meant as a LAST RESORT.  Its presence is only to guarantee USD holders a minimal level of liquidity at a fair price.  Everything else is set by the market.

[xeroc]

Sorry if this has been covered, it has been a few days since I read all of this.  I just want to make sure this was brought up...

So my understanding is that a bitAsset holder can call a settlement at X% Y days in advanced.  That settlement executes at the price feed on expiration...Can this request be canceled?

My concern is that there should a only a short period of time where the settlement request can be canceled.  The main purpose is to avoid a lot of canceling in the last minutes when the price feed happens to be skewed in the undesired direction.  Given a known predictable settlement queue, shorts can plan better and decide what to do with there collateral or position.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=15986.0

[jamesc]

Sorry if this has been covered, it has been a few days since I read all of this.  I just want to make sure this was brought up...

So my understanding is that a bitAsset holder can call a settlement at X% Y days in advanced.  That settlement executes at the price feed on expiration...Can this request be canceled?

My concern is that there should a only a short period of time where the settlement request can be canceled.  The main purpose is to avoid a lot of canceling in the last minutes when the price feed happens to be skewed in the undesired direction.  Given a known predictable settlement queue, shorts can plan better and decide what to do with there collateral or position.