Author Topic: User toast has moved over to the BTS MUSIC project  (Read 7129 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tuck Fheman

  • Guest
For more up to the minute news, The Hindenburg has crashed!

Perhaps this will calm some (unfounded) fears (which I sense in this thread).

"If we do BitShares right, users will use it without even knowing they’re using it. BitShares will be like FDIC insured, that’s the kind of approach that will get the most adoption, because you don’t want to have just one thing. And it also encourages wider adoption if you have many different companies do it, and it’s seen as a neutral platform, versus BitShares being the company that’s trying to make all of the money and trying to compete with everyone else. We should allow everyone to come in [and] use BitShares. BitShares [would] be a neutral platform, utility if you will, that provides trust free settlement of orders and contracts.”

- Daniel Larimer

Now, go sleep soundly tonight knowing Dan has tucked you in and is watching your back while you sleep. Ready for the hard fork?

BTW, while Bitcoin wonders how to handle KYC laws for the next few years(?), BitShares will have it's Whitelist already in play, and it will be optional for jurisdictions with little/no KYC laws. (Peter Todd had no comment, lulz)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:27:08 pm by Tuck Fheman »

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335
This thread has it, but some posts were deleted I think
Thanks for the link ..
Quote
I haven't taken any pay for music yet and don't plan to until I "cleared my debts" with BTS by refusing more pay and taking what I can of the "bonus" runway to fund stuff that the current model can't fund. I would go into more details but the chinese PR group told me to shut up. They're the ones that shut off that discussion BTW, and I think it's actually a good idea.

And again, none of my decisions are because I'm not getting paid enough. I have constantly refreshing standing offers for significantly more than what I'm getting here. I'll let you know if and when I take one of them, until then I'm a bagholder/believer just like you.
I must say, I totally missed that .. but the post is from February. @toast, could you please give us an update?

Offline graffenwalder

If Toast is focusing on Music, does that also have positive benefits for BitShares as well?
I recently asked him if he works for BitSharesMUSIC or for PeerTracks, but haven't got an answer yet.
His github account went silent mid of March :(
https://github.com/nmushegian

From my point of view it does not (yet) look as if there are direct positive benefits for BitShares ..
I also never saw a post about what is really happening with the delegates pay, even though nikolai claims they are sent to other devs. Maybe someone can point me there.
It also become rather difficult to get any reply from Nikolai at all .. may be just me.  :-\

Today, I removed nikolai's delegates from my slate. I'll gladly put them up again if he published a short statement because I still trust him.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335
This thread has it, but some posts were deleted I think

TurkeyLeg

  • Guest
Thanks for your insight Xeroc! And thank you for your forum leadership!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
If Toast is focusing on Music, does that also have positive benefits for BitShares as well?
I recently asked him if he works for BitSharesMUSIC or for PeerTracks, but haven't got an answer yet.
His github account went silent mid of March :(
https://github.com/nmushegian

From my point of view it does not (yet) look as if there are direct positive benefits for BitShares ..
I also never saw a post about what is really happening with the delegates pay, even though nikolai claims they are sent to other devs. Maybe someone can point me there.
It also become rather difficult to get any reply from Nikolai at all .. may be just me.  :-\

Today, I removed nikolai's delegates from my slate. I'll gladly put them up again if he published a short statement because I still trust him.

Offline speedy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: speedy
If Toast is focusing on Music, does that also have positive benefits for BitShares as well?

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile
You guys are right, I have been out of line lately, pent up frustration I guess from the falling share price and thinking about the family member who I got into bitshares transferring all his bts to the bter scam account a couple months ago. I apologize to toast and everyone else. Toast has been the most open developer with the community and has personally helped me on more than one occasion.

You are also right that it makes such a little difference in the whole scheme of things, there are much more important things to do.

Apology accepted (from my perspective, though I'm not toast). You are also doing great things for BitShares, deserving of our thanks. And you are not the only one who is frustrated. Hang in there; things are just starting to get interesting.

Offline CLains

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2606
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: clains
This whole voting system is based on reputation, and even if Toast is leaving BTS working for Music, he still has the same intact reputation. Toast is in a unique position to distribute funds appropriately. It is silly to think he would damage his reputation (which carries across all chains) by spending his earned BTS inappropriately.

Maybe a solution could have been setting up a web page clarifying this I could link to from the delegate URL

This is the solution. In the long run it is useful to have a decentralized team of unique, reputable individuals directing funds. But there has to be transparency and accountability for each one as well, as the price can go wild at any time.

Offline CalabiYau


...........That dude is an absolutely critical part of BitShares and he deserves nothing but thanks from us for the part he's played (and will continue to play).

I agree  +5%


Offline mint chocolate chip

You guys are right, I have been out of line lately, pent up frustration I guess from the falling share price and thinking about the family member who I got into bitshares transferring all his bts to the bter scam account a couple months ago. I apologize to toast and everyone else. Toast has been the most open developer with the community and has personally helped me on more than one occasion.

You are also right that it makes such a little difference in the whole scheme of things, there are much more important things to do.

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile
If we are a company, we should really start acting like one. Paying employees who are working for another company is not a practice done by any Fortune 500 companies.

Look at the situation from the standpoint of new investors. It is probably not such a good thing for them to think we have full time developers being paid by the blockchain but then find out that that is not the case.

This is a highly inaccurate characterization of what happened and of this discussion so far. We're waiting for a product; how about we sit back and let them create it without us slamming them. You have a problem with Toast, then come out and say it. That dude is an absolutely critical part of BitShares and he deserves nothing but thanks from us for the part he's played (and will continue to play).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 07:20:16 am by donkeypong »

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile
If we are a company, we should really start acting like one. Paying employees who are working for another company is not a practice done by any Fortune 500 companies.

Look at the situation from the standpoint of new investors. It is probably not such a good thing for them to think we have full time developers being paid by the blockchain but then find out that that is not the case.

#1 Fortune 500 companies hire contractors all the time who may be working on other things.
#2 Fortune 500 companies also have PR and we saw how that went !  We did go up from like 21 to 27 million.. briefly.
#3 Toast is not keeping the pittance but redirecting it to help BTS.
#4 No new investors would even be aware of this if Ken Code wasn't making an issue out of something where there shouldn't be one.
#5 When people get desperate and try to find problems where they don't get exist... well.. not sure how to put it, except BTS seems to be going backwards.

Honestly, I don't care anymore but it just seems very short sighted.  You guys need whatever incentives you can to bring in developers.  I'd like to see a breakdown of code written by volunteers across blockchain 2.0 projects. BM once stated he is against altruism in general... lol.. I didn't know where to start on that, so I ignored it. So if developer money runs out ... well we'll see what happens.

From everything i saw, Toast was the biggest force behind trying to make Bitshares more like it should be... and you guys are worried about him giving 1k a month to other developers.  SMH


« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 05:41:20 am by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline mint chocolate chip

If we are a company, we should really start acting like one. Paying employees who are working for another company is not a practice done by any Fortune 500 companies.

Look at the situation from the standpoint of new investors. It is probably not such a good thing for them to think we have full time developers being paid by the blockchain but then find out that that is not the case.

Offline onceuponatime

This thread... So many levels.

So keeping on topic (of threads and communications, that's)... that guy that wonted 10K Wednesday. Did not he say he is gonna make his big announcement today 04/17?

That's what I thought - that he would be making his announcement today.

zerosum

  • Guest
This thread... So many levels.

So keeping on topic (of threads and communications, that's)... that guy that wonted 10K Wednesday. Did not he say he is gonna make his big announcement today 04/17?

Offline NewMine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
    • View Profile
He hasn't made any mention that his delegate funds were being redirected.

Actually I've repeatedly mentioned it and the fact that I keep having to do so is why I'm finally deciding it's not worth it. Maybe a solution could have been setting up a web page clarifying this I could link to from the delegate URL

Will there be a referral program set up to get people to go to this website? because that would be great!

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile
this is the disadvantage of decentralized fund, not so effient.

Offline fuzzy


Yes, he did say he is sending the funds to other developers. But this is not the issue here, the issue is you and particularly kenCode are missing the point here.


Right. The issue is overactive forum members who are wasting the developers' freaking time by making stupid suggestions. Relax. Take a deep breath. Let things develop. Those devs need every dime right now if we're going to get this product out. And they sure don't need to be wasting their time on here.

I'll say this much...Toast has done a great deal for bitshares and I think we should recognize he never said he intended to quit working here altogether....really wish we could all get on the same page.

Communication.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 10:25:34 pm by fuzzy »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline Shentist

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
    • View Profile
    • metaexchange
  • BitShares: shentist
@ken

maybe change your thread title - why not just start with a discussion?

for me it is still unclear what happening

1. did toast left to MUSIC at all?
2. is his work on MUSIC also usable for BitShares?
3. what happens to the delegate funds?

Maybe it was posted someplace, but i am a lot on the forum and i missed it, so some "offical" statement would be nice. This is just the normal miscommunication. I am used to it - it feels like it :D

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc


Just remember the time you wanted Vitalik as a delegate to do nothing but  prove to the crypto space he likes the bitshares concept...
well, toast did much more...


+1

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Just remember the time you wanted Vitalik as a delegate to do nothing but  prove to the crypto space he likes the bitshares concept...
well, toast did much more...

PS do you thing if toast is the reason to add some cool futures to the note-blockchain, bitshares will not copy-paste them?

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile

Yes, he did say he is sending the funds to other developers. But this is not the issue here, the issue is you and particularly kenCode are missing the point here.


Right. The issue is overactive forum members who are wasting the developers' freaking time by making stupid suggestions. Relax. Take a deep breath. Let things develop. Those devs need every dime right now if we're going to get this product out. And they sure don't need to be wasting their time on here.

Offline Riverhead


Could use this script to direct funds to a trusted account until you're voted out if you want a hands-free solution.

https://github.com/Riverhead/balance_keeper/blob/master/balance_keeper.py

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile
IMO the fact that I haven't been voted out yet is troubling. Maybe I should just turn them off and allow lots of blocks to be missed? It'd save me $80/mo since I don't use that vps for anything else anymore...

I was just relaying what toast said in a different thread.  I'm all for him keeping the delegate running if he is giving it to other developers since it would be difficult to get an additional 100% delegate voted in.

And what point am I missing here?  Is it that you think this project will "break" if we vote out a delegate who isn't working on said project?  Personally I don't know what value is added by electing a delegate who doesn't contribute.

Offline maqifrnswa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Yes, he did say he is sending the funds to other developers. But this is not the issue here, the issue is you and particularly kenCode are missing the point here.

Is this still true? I think that would stop the debate entirely if it could be confirmed.
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

zerosum

  • Guest

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.
+5% +5%
Plus as far as I know this funds are redirected to other severely underpaid core developers...

I can see a ton of other delegates that I will vote out before toast's, but hey if you disagree it is you vote....break your head and this project.
And good luck!

Toast said himself that he was surprised he hasn't been down voted.  He even said he would turn off the delegate and miss blocks to expedite the process of being voted out.  He hasn't made any mention that his delegate funds were being redirected.

Yes, he did say he is sending the funds to other developers. But this is not the issue here, the issue is you and particularly kenCode are missing the point here.

I will NOT vote him out if Toast is using that money to fund the other developers, especially at a time when the market cap is so low. We need these people to stick with it a bit longer.
And a guy who gets it.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.
+5% +5%
Plus as far as I know this funds are redirected to other severely underpaid core developers...

I can see a ton of other delegates that I will vote out before toast's, but hey if you disagree it is you vote....break your head and this project.
And good luck!

Toast said himself that he was surprised he hasn't been down voted.  He even said he would turn off the delegate and miss blocks to expedite the process of being voted out.  He hasn't made any mention that his delegate funds were being redirected.

I recall he did make mention of it somewhere. Now whether he'd been on top of divvying up the funds , I can not say. Regardless, I would be a bit surprised if he kept all the BTS. It would make him look bad, and it just isn't that much $$. He is probably a bit ambivalent about it and is just like whatever you guys want......

People here seem to have a hard time judging the scale of the problems that exist and what the actual problems are these days.

edit - After seeing Toast's last post, I am not very far off.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 07:52:05 pm by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
He hasn't made any mention that his delegate funds were being redirected.

Actually I've repeatedly mentioned it and the fact that I keep having to do so is why I'm finally deciding it's not worth it. Maybe a solution could have been setting up a web page clarifying this I could link to from the delegate URL
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile
I will NOT vote him out if Toast is using that money to fund the other developers, especially at a time when the market cap is so low. We need these people to stick with it a bit longer.

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.
+5% +5%
Plus as far as I know this funds are redirected to other severely underpaid core developers...

I can see a ton of other delegates that I will vote out before toast's, but hey if you disagree it is you vote....break your head and this project.
And good luck!

Toast said himself that he was surprised he hasn't been down voted.  He even said he would turn off the delegate and miss blocks to expedite the process of being voted out.  He hasn't made any mention that his delegate funds were being redirected.

zerosum

  • Guest

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.
+5% +5%
Plus as far as I know this funds are redirected to other severely underpaid core developers...

I can see a ton of other delegates that I will vote out before toast's, but hey if you disagree it is you vote....break your head and this project.
And good luck!

Offline Pheonike

There should be a 72hr auto kick if delegate is not functioning properly.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline mint chocolate chip

How about this one as well...  dev-trial.misc.nikolai which is also 100% with 0 feeds.

Offline kenCode

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2283
    • View Profile
    • Agorise
As per this thread and his confirmation (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15767.0.html), toast has moved over to the MUSIC/NOTES project.
 
His BTS Delegate is still collecting 100% payrate however, so please vote that Delegate down now:
Delegate:dev0.nikolai

 
This will free up those funds for BitShares.
Please and Thank You (and Thank You toast for your confirmation on this).
Peace,
  -ken
 
Edit: toast also mentioned that he had a second Delegate here too, not sure which.
As an Ops guy, please don't shoot the messenger. There is no doubt that toast was invaluable to BTS. I think I've made that quite clear, but what I am saying is that I do not want funds wasted. That's all. I've seen some great suggestions in this thread RE how to handle future departures. Oh, and for the record, I will be investing heavily in the MUSIC/NOTES project as well :)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 07:49:55 am by kenCode »
kenCode - Decentraliser @ Agorise
Matrix/Keybase/Hive/Commun/Github: @Agorise
www.PalmPay.chat