Announcing BitShares AGS & BitShares X Allocation

[phoenix]

So how will I get my angelshares?

Technically you won't get Angel Shares. You just get credited the Angel Shares to the address that sent the donation, and then you receive shares in future DACs. Angel Shares are not trade-able, they're a long term investment.

[phoenix]

So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!

It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months.  Enough to get a pretty nice user experience.     Our polish devs have been working hard on it,  unfortunately they don't work for pts.

I believed the PTS launch was more successful than expected. Thus Invictus has more money than they expected to, right?

So why the need for more funding via AngelShares? Was this the plan all along?

I dont mean to be so critical, I believe Invictus is really doing something great here.
I just dont understand why there is a need for more funding at this stage if venture capital was successfully obtained and PTS launch was such a success.

Now it looks like either the original plan was set under-budget. Or the plan was to just get some cash, see how far it goes, and then get some more.

Not all of the Angel Share funding is going towards Bitshares. I3 is investing it into the development and marketing for even more DACs, so this isn't just short-term funding, it's long term funding.

[cryptkeeper]

So how will I get my angelshares?

[MrJeans]

So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!

It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months.  Enough to get a pretty nice user experience.     Our polish devs have been working hard on it,  unfortunately they don't work for pts.

I believed the PTS launch was more successful than expected. Thus Invictus has more money than they expected to, right?

So why the need for more funding via AngelShares? Was this the plan all along?

I dont mean to be so critical, I believe Invictus is really doing something great here.
I just dont understand why there is a need for more funding at this stage if venture capital was successfully obtained and PTS launch was such a success.

Now it looks like either the original plan was set under-budget. Or the plan was to just get some cash, see how far it goes, and then get some more.

[MrJeans]

After that is undefined but may be more than 10%.

So PTS will account for 10% or more of BitShares?
And AngelShares may account for 10% or more?
Will PTS and AGS always count for the same percentage of BitShares?

I believe the introduction of AGS is unfair to PTS early adopters.
I purchased PTS under the impression that all PTS will represent 10% of bitshares. And the remainder 90% of BitShares will be distributed to miners (through their mining) and to BitShare holders (through half of mining rewards).

Under this original agreement if PTS holders keep the BitShares they get, for the 12 years it takes to mine all BitShares, they would end up with 55% of BitShares in existence.

In a 50:50 split with AGS, PTS holders are reduced to 50% of BitShares.

If AGS gets 10% and PTS gets 10% then PTS early adopters end up with 30% of BitShares if they hold them for the 12 year period.

I hope I didnt mix up my maths, but from this it looks like the original deal (when I bought PTS) promised me a 450% growth in number of BitShares over 12 years. Now I am looking at a possible 200% growth in 12 years.

[bytemaster]

After that is undefined but may be more than 10%.


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[Shentist]

ok, and after 10% proto and 10% angelshares. Do i understand it correct?

[phoenix]

1 question

We have chosen 50-50 for our first DAC to equally honor mining-lottery and patron-donor schools of thought. 

For our first BitShares DAC:

Allocate 50% of its shares to ProtoShares holders at genesis.
Allocate 50% of its shares to AngelShares holders at genesis.

We will scale the total share count to 4 million shares, equally divided between the two schools.

what does "our first" mean?

Thanks

There will be multiple versions of Bitshares, but only the first will be a 50-50 split between ProtoShares and AngelShares

[Shentist]

1 question

We have chosen 50-50 for our first DAC to equally honor mining-lottery and patron-donor schools of thought. 

For our first BitShares DAC:

Allocate 50% of its shares to ProtoShares holders at genesis.
Allocate 50% of its shares to AngelShares holders at genesis.

We will scale the total share count to 4 million shares, equally divided between the two schools.

what does "our first" mean?

Thanks

[phoenix]

Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.

Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal.  You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!

If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser.  It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.

Honestly the "minimum daily micromanagement" takes what, 15 seconds? Or if you plan to be AFK, do you have a computer you can leave a cron job on? I could write a guide on how to set that up if there's enough interest

It could take longer if you want to get better deals. But I think there will be 2 main strategies: Throw a bunch of PTS/BTC at the donation address early in the day and hope that everyone else decides that the rate they would get for investing would be to low, or, wait until the last minute to try to grab as many Angel Shares as possible for as few PTS/BTC as possible

[toast]

Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.

Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal.  You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!

If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser.  It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.

Honestly the "minimum daily micromanagement" takes what, 15 seconds? Or if you plan to be AFK, do you have a computer you can leave a cron job on? I could write a guide on how to set that up if there's enough interest

[phoenix]

So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.

I would suggest Invictus offers a service (for a small fee) to investors who would like to hand off a large amount of investment funds without having to try and micromanage daily investments.   Bytemaster, do you have any plans for how to address this issue?   If I for example wanted to invest 1000 PTS in angelshares, how could I efficiently do that without having to pay attention all the time to the address?  Seems like this is a method intended to service larger investors and yet it requires more hands-on management than Protoshares ever did.

That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.   

We will not recycle funds through the address.   

We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.   


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Actually this method was intended to level the playing field and benefit smaller investors.   Which by your posting demonstrates that we did make it less convenient for larger investors.  That said, large investors would probably just make one payment per day at the beginning of the day or pay someone to do it for them like you suggest.  Anyone wanting to invest 100K or more will already be in contact with us and we can make arrangements.  However, we feel that the daily nature benefits the little guy.

So I'll have a nice advantage even though I'm not very rich in PTS since I'm normally on my computer around 11:00 to 12:00 GMT. Guys like me can watch for an opportunity to send just a few of our limited PTS for a large portion of Angel Shares!

[Lighthouse]

Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.

Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal.  You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!

If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser.  It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.

[bytemaster]

Are you keeping your policy for dealing with larger investors private?  I thought the reason AngelShares was created was because you had several people wanting to invest hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars with you, so while I think you can say Angelshares are about the little guy that's new, and what you actually said was you wanted to launch angelshares as soon as possible because people wanted to give you large amounts of money in exchange for a stake, which this does not seem to offer.

As a potential large investor in Angelshares, what type of process would I find if I contacted you asking this question per your response?

We would offer to manage their contributions if they paid in cash by converting to btc and pts. 

If they have btc then we would ask them to send equal payments every day but would also manage it for them if that was a problem. 

We held off taking any money until we had a plan that we felt was equal opportunity for all. 


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[Lighthouse]

Are you keeping your policy for dealing with larger investors private?  I thought the reason AngelShares was created was because you had several people wanting to invest hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars with you, so while I think you can say Angelshares are about the little guy that's new, and what you actually said was you wanted to launch angelshares as soon as possible because people wanted to give you large amounts of money in exchange for a stake, which this does not seem to offer.

As a potential large investor in Angelshares, what type of process would I find if I contacted you asking this question per your response?