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Offline bytemaster

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2013, 05:48:21 AM »

So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!

+1

It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months.  Enough to get a pretty nice user experience.     Our polish devs have been working hard on it,  unfortunately they don't work for pts.

 





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Offline Stan

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2013, 05:51:24 AM »

Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.
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Jan 1st, 2014 shall include all transactions sent to the Angel addresses in 2013.

Please can you elaborate on this.. Have the Angelshares for Keyhotee founders already been allocated based on Keyhotee ID contributions before dec 24th?

Nice gesture for early adopters who donated :)

We know how hard it was for many people to come up with those donations.  The fact that they did anyway shows true commitment.  We wanted to reward that kind of support and those donations are every bit as important to the success of this ecosystem as the ones that are beginning to come in now.
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Offline danielauhlig

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2013, 06:04:18 AM »
Hi sent a few btc to the angel share wallet address. what happens now do we get a notification shares sent where?

Offline Stan

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2013, 06:15:51 AM »
Hi sent a few btc to the angel share wallet address. what happens now do we get a notification shares sent where?

Donations are logged in the public blockchain to be referenced every time a new honorable DAC is released.  We have a bounty out for a custom viewer.  You can see it's spec on the web site. 

Until then, watch the forum.  I'm sure folks will be publishing their analyses frequently.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2013, 06:30:29 AM »
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.

The exact day and hour of BTS release depends upon how development progresses, but we will certainly aim for an earlier release if possible.  So it might be better to front load your investment because the competition will get higher as we get closer to release.   That said, part of our design decision of the AngelShares concept was to get all of the excitement of mining without all of the waste.    Miners compete to divide up fixed block rewards proportional to how many other miners there are and there is the excitement of being lucky and also the fact that mining requires regular attention dedicated to a project.   The fact that everyone has a different strategy is part of what makes the process fun for the little guy.  It is also more annoying for the big investors which means they will probably just throw money in at the beginning of the day and take the daily price.   

The process also helps the little guy who can only afford $1 per day to pay as he goes rather than being forced to come up with it all at once.   I believe that the AngelShare model will be the standard model for raising funds for future DACs going forward.    I also believe that the combination of AngelShares / ProtoShares is very powerful.   I look forward to seeing how this progresses!
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Offline slacking

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2013, 07:22:14 AM »
If you use PTS to buy Angelshares, doesn't that mean you reduce the amount available that will be given bitshares? For example, 500,000 pts goes to buy Angelshares, that leaves 1,500,000 to split up 2,000,000 bitshares, in effect increasing the bitshares pts holders get.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2013, 07:33:50 AM »
Pts do not disappear just because you donate them to us.  We will spend them back into circulation paying developers and bounties.


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Offline slacking

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2013, 07:43:39 AM »
Right, I'm just saying any pts spent on angelshares has the effect of raising the pts/bts mapping. Instead of 1:1, it could end up being 1:2 or something with pts holders getting more bitshares.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2013, 07:46:59 AM »
Right, I'm just saying any pts spent on angelshares has the effect of raising the pts/bts mapping. Instead of 1:1, it could end up being 1:2 or something with pts holders getting more bitshares.

No, the entire PTS money supply will be mapped proportionally to 2M BTS and the entire AGS supply will be mapped proportionally to 2M BTS.   I guess it is a matter of perspective, if you count AGS received from PTS donations as being allocated to PTS holders then perhaps it is 75% PTS and 25% BTC-AGS.   I think that view just confuses things.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2013, 07:51:39 AM »
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.

I would suggest Invictus offers a service (for a small fee) to investors who would like to hand off a large amount of investment funds without having to try and micromanage daily investments.   Bytemaster, do you have any plans for how to address this issue?   If I for example wanted to invest 1000 PTS in angelshares, how could I efficiently do that without having to pay attention all the time to the address?  Seems like this is a method intended to service larger investors and yet it requires more hands-on management than Protoshares ever did.
That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.   

We will not recycle funds through the address.   

We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.   


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Actually this method was intended to level the playing field and benefit smaller investors.   Which by your posting demonstrates that we did make it less convenient for larger investors.  That said, large investors would probably just make one payment per day at the beginning of the day or pay someone to do it for them like you suggest.  Anyone wanting to invest 100K or more will already be in contact with us and we can make arrangements.  However, we feel that the daily nature benefits the little guy.

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Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2013, 01:08:49 PM »
Are you keeping your policy for dealing with larger investors private?  I thought the reason AngelShares was created was because you had several people wanting to invest hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars with you, so while I think you can say Angelshares are about the little guy that's new, and what you actually said was you wanted to launch angelshares as soon as possible because people wanted to give you large amounts of money in exchange for a stake, which this does not seem to offer.

As a potential large investor in Angelshares, what type of process would I find if I contacted you asking this question per your response?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2013, 01:20:51 PM »

Are you keeping your policy for dealing with larger investors private?  I thought the reason AngelShares was created was because you had several people wanting to invest hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars with you, so while I think you can say Angelshares are about the little guy that's new, and what you actually said was you wanted to launch angelshares as soon as possible because people wanted to give you large amounts of money in exchange for a stake, which this does not seem to offer.

As a potential large investor in Angelshares, what type of process would I find if I contacted you asking this question per your response?

We would offer to manage their contributions if they paid in cash by converting to btc and pts. 

If they have btc then we would ask them to send equal payments every day but would also manage it for them if that was a problem. 

We held off taking any money until we had a plan that we felt was equal opportunity for all. 


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Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2013, 01:25:03 PM »
Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.

Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal.  You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!

If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser.  It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline phoenix

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Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2013, 03:00:29 PM »
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.

I would suggest Invictus offers a service (for a small fee) to investors who would like to hand off a large amount of investment funds without having to try and micromanage daily investments.   Bytemaster, do you have any plans for how to address this issue?   If I for example wanted to invest 1000 PTS in angelshares, how could I efficiently do that without having to pay attention all the time to the address?  Seems like this is a method intended to service larger investors and yet it requires more hands-on management than Protoshares ever did.
That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.   

We will not recycle funds through the address.   

We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually this method was intended to level the playing field and benefit smaller investors.   Which by your posting demonstrates that we did make it less convenient for larger investors.  That said, large investors would probably just make one payment per day at the beginning of the day or pay someone to do it for them like you suggest.  Anyone wanting to invest 100K or more will already be in contact with us and we can make arrangements.  However, we feel that the daily nature benefits the little guy.

So I'll have a nice advantage even though I'm not very rich in PTS since I'm normally on my computer around 11:00 to 12:00 GMT. Guys like me can watch for an opportunity to send just a few of our limited PTS for a large portion of Angel Shares! 8)
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline toast

Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2013, 05:24:38 PM »
Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.

Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal.  You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!

If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser.  It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.

Honestly the "minimum daily micromanagement" takes what, 15 seconds? Or if you plan to be AFK, do you have a computer you can leave a cron job on? I could write a guide on how to set that up if there's enough interest
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