Author Topic: Bitshares price discussion  (Read 886934 times)

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Offline intelliguy

The founder is thought to hold around 3% of the coins supply at most. Triple or quadruple that if you like and he's still outnumbered many times in terms of node voting.

No one really knows how much of the premine he has, spread among multiple wallets.

I suspect the founder, with the premine, is manipulating the market, and taking everyone for a ride by buying/selling to himself.  The pump is just a little too crazy.

People seem to get blinded quite easiliy as long as they are riding a rocket.  However when that rocket runs out of fuel, or the game is over, watch out.

Remember we discussed this March 2017.  I suspect by March 2020 Dash will no longer be in the top 10.

Probably because they'll just undergo a name change again.  How many name changes would that be for Dash? 4?

The only reason we're even talking about Dash, is because someone insisted that we follow Dash's pump.   Well if I can premine a whole bunch of BTS and trade them on the market for myself, I could raise the value of BTS just as high as dash, and mislead coinmarketcap.com.

Once I pump it up nice and fat, and high, I'd wait for the buy orders to accumulate (much like people are doing with Dash right now) and I'd dump the whole thing on them.

Problem is I'm not evil.  Bitshares isn't evil.  Dash's initial founder = definitely evil.  I'd run from anything that guy touched.

Here's a former "DASHaholic" and his words:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@thedashguy/warning-why-i-don-t-trust-the-price-of-dash-nor-the-community-be-careful-folks-invest-wisely-diversify

« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 12:19:17 am by intelliguy »
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Offline toknormal

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THAT SAID, I must also confess I'm learning a lot about the details of Dash Amanda won't tell you about in Dash Detailed. The shady origins of Dash's early days. The premine, the coinjoin algorithm at the heart of Dash's "privacy". Of course a major weakness with Dash is that it's based on Bitcoin. A smart business move to get Dash off the ground but not a very good long term strategy.

Actually Amanda has OFTEN talked about this in Dash Detailed and these facts have all been in the public domain for years.

Far from being "shady" Dash's origins are just about the most discussed phenomenon in crypto after the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto so I can only assume you've been hiding under a rock during that time.

In addition to that, it's now one of the best distributed cryptos around, partly because it's 3 years old and partly because it's now had 4 major pumps and selloffs during which potential 'exiters' have done plenty of profit taking. The founder is thought to hold around 3% of the coins supply at most. Triple or quadruple that if you like and he's still outnumbered many times in terms of node voting.

Regarding "privacy", lets just examine that for a moment. Dash has very definite and well defined monetary model. That is that it is a deflationary base asset bearer token modelled after a mined commodity just like bitcoin. Being unbacked, it does not use encryption as this would obfuscate the blockchain and detract from its symmetric transparency. (I use the word 'symmetric' to mean that the same blockchain attributes are visible to everyone regardless of whether they are a keyholder or not, as opposed to an encrypted blockchain where the sender has one view and the receiver another).

Against this background, Dash uses a mixing algorithm to erase transaction history. In other words its privacy algo is modelled on cash which consolidates in a cash drawer and is then dispersed in different denominations than it arrived.

There is nothing deficient about this approach and in fact it's the optimal privacy algorithm for a cryptocurrency which is maximising value and authenticity since it doesn't need recourse to any 'hiding'. In addition to this the theoretical chance of tracing a particular anonymised balance back to its sources is negligible.

There has been a lot of nonsense written about Dash over the years, most of it by people with axes to grind. People should do their own research - as I did when I invested. If they don't like the instamine, no problem - invest in something else. But it's pre-history and the biggest holders at in the early days were buyers not miners.

See this for more debunking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzqGf_ak_2I

Sorry for the off-topic post. Believe it or not, I am a Bitshares holder going back years and am a great fan of Bitshares. I came back here to find out what's going on with this project but the first thing I read is posts about Dash which I'm sick of debunking. I'd appreciate if someone could spent as much effort filling me in on Bitshares as I have to do debunking nonsense about Dash.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 10:16:30 pm by toknormal »

Offline Geneko

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@kenCode

Maybe you should open new topic and collect some ideas about blockpay acceptance.
I might have few ideas too but I don't think it would be appropriate to spam this thread.

Anyway here is one of them. Think about life time value of client. How much would you collect from average client during his lifetime.
Lifetime of client is average period of time that client spends with your service before switch to better/supplement service.
Take some cut from that income and give it in what ever form of incentive for new client. Take best client characteristics and make
some benchmark for client qualification. Those could be corner coffee shops in university areas, freelance job places, shopping molls fast food restaurants, ATM operators... Only those that qualify could be considered clients. Give this incentive to marketing guys, ambassadors (suppose you already have), crypto enthusiasts, moms, clients itself, who ever knows how to sell the client.

Offline kenCode

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man @Thom that Medium article that you linked to on Dash is crazy. No privacy, massive premine, weird hybrid pow.. poor Amanda really took some heat too. damn
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Offline Permie

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I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

It's not even logical for ETH and DASH to have that much of a pump considering how those technologies are being utilized in the real world.  Tell me, how many times have you used Dash and ETH in your daily life recently?

Exactly. There's lots of hype about why a coin is getting all the market cap, but the fact is, unless the general public starts regularly using that coin for something, then it's just a speculators playground for now.
 
BlockPay was released months ago and continues to get better and better each week, yet I only see frikn ONE merchant using it so far. If you want to actually use your favorite coin at a store, then people need to get off ass and go show BlockPay to that merchant. It's as easy as that. Just install it on a tablet, and show the merchant that with BlockPay, they can accept one or more digital currencies at zero cost. It's another path to profits. wtf
 
Dash is doing a great job and their community is starting to talk about BlockPay as well. What about the Ethereum and Bitcoin communities? No, they seem to have that arrogant "we will be the one chain to rule them all mentality". That ego will be their demise, I assure you.
 
If you want real adoption of your chain, then you should really take a look at BlockPay imo. Man, I am integrating BlockPay with everything now.. Card swipe machines, vending machines, various cash register systems, TV's, even IoT devices.
 
Pump-n-dumps might be fun for speculators, but the real world needs ways to use your coin.
BlockPay. Stealth. C-IPFS/meshnet. Echo.

@kenCode you are doing an amazing job. So do not take what I am about to say in the wrong way. Personally I know a lot of people who own hotels, bar restaurants, other shops that will and want to accept crypto in Greece. Obviously I will show them blockpay but I am hesitant at this time to do so because this is not yet final. Once stealth is in place, tested, everything works perfectly and there will be no need for further updates I can assure you that you will suddenly start see lots of transactions coming from Greece..I do not want to show them a product and a month later they will need to download and update a new version and then another and then another..I will show them the final product that will dazzle them.. When presenting a product like that to a very large hotel with bar - restaurant with 1,000nds daily transactions you only get one chance. If they see something that they don't like, there is a bug or anything else..that's it..you have lost them forever..You get one chance only. So keep doing what you do, do not lose faith and you will see the rewards of your work eventually..
Maybe something we all can do is to get a group of crypto-enthusiast together in our local areas, contact that establishment beforehand and tell them that your 10 to 15+ people will only reserve if they except crypto currency and use blockpay... it will most likely have to be a locally owned store.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Fantastic Idea!

You could take it a step further, and have the crypto-enthusiast/investors voluntarily collaborate to provide a fund of bitUSD that is used to give a discount to average-jo's who demand that their local restaurant use BlockPay and accept bitUSD.

Example:
BitShareholders A, B ,C...Z discover that they would each donate a small sum of bitUSD if it would benefit the BTS ecosystem. The value of their remaining bitshares could/(or not) increase by more than the philanthropic act costs them.

They each decide that they are happy to provide $10 each.
With their $50, they decide they would like to ensure that at least 3 new business will accept BlockPay as a result of their $50 investment.
That is $16.60 per guaranteed-signup. These are example figures.

$16.60 could provide a 20% discount on an $83 tab. Lets say that's a meal for 5.
Who spends a lot of time on the internet researching ways to save money and feed a family?
Mums.
You hit up mumsnet and mothering forums and tell them that you are willing to pay for 20% of the bill for them to take their family out to dinner.
The 20% of the bill will be paid in bitUSD directly to the restaurant. The mum doesn't need to handle bitUSD. They can if they want, but we shouldn't require it, as it could come off scammy.

Mum goes to the restaurant/bar/boutique shop/local healthfood store with a flyer/newsletter that describes how the merchant can download, install and integrate. These must be locally owned small businesses, with the owner-operator on hand to listen and understand the situation. Hopefully setting up BlockPay can be done in under 5mins. How much of the owners time is worth an extra 5-seat booking?

Ideally the mum could explain the deal to the merchant, and how they can still receive bankfiat, as quickly as possible. Can the merchant install and accept bitUSD right away? Will the mum need to go there the day before the meal to leave enough time for setup?
                                       The business owners do not need to care about bitUSD, or understand it.
They understand that installing this app and linking it to their bank account means they get extra business or an extra fat tip.

This is about laying the groundwork for bitUSD acceptance in as many places as possible.

==================/EXAMPLE

In its most basic form this relies on the crypto-investors being awake and available at the same time that the mum pays for her meal.
Feasible but not ideal.

The crypto-investors could instead set up some kind of smartcoin or UIA that performs the function of paying out the $16.60 to new-merchants only.
Could blockpay issue some kind of unique identifier that only brand-new accounts display? I'm wondering if there is a way that a new-merchant could prove that they have indeed installed BlockPay for the first time. But prove it to a Smartcoin algorithm that determines when to pay out the $16.60.
Is this possible in any way?
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Offline Thom

Full disclosure: I am a Dash fan, have profited from it's meteoric rise in marketcap and like the way the project is run. They have a plan and a simple and reasonable governance model. THAT SAID, I must also confess I'm learning a lot about the details of Dash Amanda won't tell you about in Dash Detailed. The shady origins of Dash's early days. The premine, the coinjoin algorithm at the heart of Dash's "privacy". Of course a major weakness with Dash is that it's based on Bitcoin. A smart business move to get Dash off the ground but not a very good long term strategy.

I don't own much Dash. I sold 40% of my holdings when the price got over $110. After the research I have done this morning (this for starters) I will likely sell more, but I will not sell it all. My thought was to sell high, wait for the almost certain dip and buy more at a lower price. I am more bearish on buying back in later. I have made a 150% profit and I still own 60% of my original Dash holding. If the price drops below $80 I will sell at least another 10 Dash of my remaining holdings to increase my profit to over 250% from my original investment.

All the info coming to my awareness now makes me feel lucky I didn't loose in this investment. I'm less a fan of Dash now, but still believe it has some merit, if nothing else through the governance model Dash brings to the table via it's Masternodes. Understanding Dash's Masternodes is crucial. How many are independent (i.e. how many Masternodes are run or controlled by Duffield or Dash insiders, i.e. are centralized?) and how many keep logs that could render the coinjoin "privacy" traceable and ineffective? As for the premine, underlying principles and motivation of the founders I'm now more skeptical.

So keep up the work @kenCode and when you're ready to announce stealth in BitShares with an easy to use UI and a UX even grandma can handle we'll blast Dash away with solid substance of true privacy and ease of use.


I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

It's not even logical for ETH and DASH to have that much of a pump considering how those technologies are being utilized in the real world.  Tell me, how many times have you used Dash and ETH in your daily life recently?

Exactly. There's lots of hype about why a coin is getting all the market cap, but the fact is, unless the general public starts regularly using that coin for something, then it's just a speculators playground for now.
 
BlockPay was released months ago and continues to get better and better each week, yet I only see frikn ONE merchant using it so far. If you want to actually use your favorite coin at a store, then people need to get off ass and go show BlockPay to that merchant. It's as easy as that. Just install it on a tablet, and show the merchant that with BlockPay, they can accept one or more digital currencies at zero cost. It's another path to profits. wtf
 
Dash is doing a great job and their community is starting to talk about BlockPay as well. What about the Ethereum and Bitcoin communities? No, they seem to have that arrogant "we will be the one chain to rule them all mentality". That ego will be their demise, I assure you.
 
If you want real adoption of your chain, then you should really take a look at BlockPay imo. Man, I am integrating BlockPay with everything now.. Card swipe machines, vending machines, various cash register systems, TV's, even IoT devices.
 
Pump-n-dumps might be fun for speculators, but the real world needs ways to use your coin.
BlockPay. Stealth. C-IPFS/meshnet. Echo.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline mr-whitekey


I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

It's not even logical for ETH and DASH to have that much of a pump considering how those technologies are being utilized in the real world.  Tell me, how many times have you used Dash and ETH in your daily life recently?

Exactly. There's lots of hype about why a coin is getting all the market cap, but the fact is, unless the general public starts regularly using that coin for something, then it's just a speculators playground for now.
 
BlockPay was released months ago and continues to get better and better each week, yet I only see frikn ONE merchant using it so far. If you want to actually use your favorite coin at a store, then people need to get off ass and go show BlockPay to that merchant. It's as easy as that. Just install it on a tablet, and show the merchant that with BlockPay, they can accept one or more digital currencies at zero cost. It's another path to profits. wtf
 
Dash is doing a great job and their community is starting to talk about BlockPay as well. What about the Ethereum and Bitcoin communities? No, they seem to have that arrogant "we will be the one chain to rule them all mentality". That ego will be their demise, I assure you.
 
If you want real adoption of your chain, then you should really take a look at BlockPay imo. Man, I am integrating BlockPay with everything now.. Card swipe machines, vending machines, various cash register systems, TV's, even IoT devices.
 
Pump-n-dumps might be fun for speculators, but the real world needs ways to use your coin.
BlockPay. Stealth. C-IPFS/meshnet. Echo.

@kenCode you are doing an amazing job. So do not take what I am about to say in the wrong way. Personally I know a lot of people who own hotels, bar restaurants, other shops that will and want to accept crypto in Greece. Obviously I will show them blockpay but I am hesitant at this time to do so because this is not yet final. Once stealth is in place, tested, everything works perfectly and there will be no need for further updates I can assure you that you will suddenly start see lots of transactions coming from Greece..I do not want to show them a product and a month later they will need to download and update a new version and then another and then another..I will show them the final product that will dazzle them.. When presenting a product like that to a very large hotel with bar - restaurant with 1,000nds daily transactions you only get one chance. If they see something that they don't like, there is a bug or anything else..that's it..you have lost them forever..You get one chance only. So keep doing what you do, do not lose faith and you will see the rewards of your work eventually..
Maybe something we all can do is to get a group of crypto-enthusiast together in our local areas, contact that establishment beforehand and tell them that your 10 to 15+ people will only reserve if they except crypto currency and use blockpay... it will most likely have to be a locally owned store.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Offline mf-tzo

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I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

It's not even logical for ETH and DASH to have that much of a pump considering how those technologies are being utilized in the real world.  Tell me, how many times have you used Dash and ETH in your daily life recently?

Exactly. There's lots of hype about why a coin is getting all the market cap, but the fact is, unless the general public starts regularly using that coin for something, then it's just a speculators playground for now.
 
BlockPay was released months ago and continues to get better and better each week, yet I only see frikn ONE merchant using it so far. If you want to actually use your favorite coin at a store, then people need to get off ass and go show BlockPay to that merchant. It's as easy as that. Just install it on a tablet, and show the merchant that with BlockPay, they can accept one or more digital currencies at zero cost. It's another path to profits. wtf
 
Dash is doing a great job and their community is starting to talk about BlockPay as well. What about the Ethereum and Bitcoin communities? No, they seem to have that arrogant "we will be the one chain to rule them all mentality". That ego will be their demise, I assure you.
 
If you want real adoption of your chain, then you should really take a look at BlockPay imo. Man, I am integrating BlockPay with everything now.. Card swipe machines, vending machines, various cash register systems, TV's, even IoT devices.
 
Pump-n-dumps might be fun for speculators, but the real world needs ways to use your coin.
BlockPay. Stealth. C-IPFS/meshnet. Echo.

@kenCode you are doing an amazing job. So do not take what I am about to say in the wrong way. Personally I know a lot of people who own hotels, bar restaurants, other shops that will and want to accept crypto in Greece. Obviously I will show them blockpay but I am hesitant at this time to do so because this is not yet final. Once stealth is in place, tested, everything works perfectly and there will be no need for further updates I can assure you that you will suddenly start see lots of transactions coming from Greece..I do not want to show them a product and a month later they will need to download and update a new version and then another and then another..I will show them the final product that will dazzle them.. When presenting a product like that to a very large hotel with bar - restaurant with 1,000nds daily transactions you only get one chance. If they see something that they don't like, there is a bug or anything else..that's it..you have lost them forever..You get one chance only. So keep doing what you do, do not lose faith and you will see the rewards of your work eventually..

Offline kenCode

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I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

It's not even logical for ETH and DASH to have that much of a pump considering how those technologies are being utilized in the real world.  Tell me, how many times have you used Dash and ETH in your daily life recently?

Exactly. There's lots of hype about why a coin is getting all the market cap, but the fact is, unless the general public starts regularly using that coin for something, then it's just a speculators playground for now.
 
BlockPay was released months ago and continues to get better and better each week, yet I only see frikn ONE merchant using it so far. If you want to actually use your favorite coin at a store, then people need to get off ass and go show BlockPay to that merchant. It's as easy as that. Just install it on a tablet, and show the merchant that with BlockPay, they can accept one or more digital currencies at zero cost. It's another path to profits. wtf
 
Dash is doing a great job and their community is starting to talk about BlockPay as well. What about the Ethereum and Bitcoin communities? No, they seem to have that arrogant "we will be the one chain to rule them all mentality". That ego will be their demise, I assure you.
 
If you want real adoption of your chain, then you should really take a look at BlockPay imo. Man, I am integrating BlockPay with everything now.. Card swipe machines, vending machines, various cash register systems, TV's, even IoT devices.
 
Pump-n-dumps might be fun for speculators, but the real world needs ways to use your coin.
BlockPay. Stealth. C-IPFS/meshnet. Echo.
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Offline intelliguy

I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

Someone had the same sentiments as you did about Peercoin about 6 months ago for instance, they dumped all their holdings at 29 cents.  6 months later the price is now 65 cents today (we had highs of 72 cents).   What a terrible move for that skeptic we had there..

Being skeptical is your right.  However I find a lot of skeptical people try to rally others in a subtle way to validate their skeptisim.

Either you believe in the platform, or you don't.  The daily trading price matters very little unless you think you're at the end of the line.

Bitshares hasn't even be utilized and explored yet to its fullest.  Stan knows Bytemaster very well (as you may know) and he knows where this could possibly go.  Unless Stan dumps his holdings, I'm not dumping any of mine. :)

By the way, you did get something right:

I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them

That's all I see. One big pump.  Most of us know what follows a huge pump too...

 It's not even logical for ETH and DASH to have that much of a pump considering how those technologies are being utilized in the real world.  Tell me, how many times have you used Dash and ETH in your daily life recently? It's all  pumped up speculation with very little substance in my opinion.

I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies. 

When you say "outperforming", do you mean transactions per second? stability of the chain? featureset? design?  future direction?

Or do you simply mean "price".  :o

If it's sheer trading price that makes you choose the best place to invest your money, you're going to get let down a lot in crypto. Just a friendly tip.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 03:03:23 am by intelliguy »
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Offline Stan

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Finally BTS is joining the Alt coin pumps... $0.070 has been resistance for the last year.  If it can clear and hold above that, there is a good chance the bear market is over.

I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them, while BTS is only up 7 mil.  Once the alt coin pump is over, how well BTS holds up will show if the bear market is done.  If bts breaks $0.070 but fail to hold above for more than a few days, BTS will probably test the lows again.

You need to think bigger, Pinky.  Welcome fiat being pumped into any crypto right now.  It is only a few seconds away from BTS...

:)

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline lil_jay890

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Finally BTS is joining the Alt coin pumps... $0.070 has been resistance for the last year.  If it can clear and hold above that, there is a good chance the bear market is over.

I am skeptical since BTS isn't really outperforming many currencies.  Dash and ETH are getting hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into them, while BTS is only up 7 mil.  Once the alt coin pump is over, how well BTS holds up will show if the bear market is done.  If bts breaks $0.070 but fail to hold above for more than a few days, BTS will probably test the lows again.

Offline Permie

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The key difference lies in whether you are trading a UIA(user issued asset, open.btc, trade.btc, etc) or a (MPA market pegged asset/smartcoin, bitUSD, bitBTC, bitCNY). UIAs would carry similar counterparty risk to a normal exchange, however the MPAs are backed by on chain collateral and are thusnot subject to that risk. Depending on the market, you could have similar counterparty risk if it is UIA:UIA, half the risk(UIA:MPA) or none of the risk (MPA:MPA).
Correct. That is how I understand it also. I glanced over where methodise said "bitassets". I was talking about the risk involved bin trading other blockchains on our "DEX".

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My understanding is that when other coins are traded on the DEX, they will be traded against a market-pegged-asset that trades at parity (+premium) to the value of the target-cryptocurrency in bitshares.
The same way bitUSD works.

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Offline mr-whitekey

The key difference lies in whether you are trading a UIA(user issued asset, open.btc, trade.btc, etc) or a (MPA market pegged asset/smartcoin, bitUSD, bitBTC, bitCNY). UIAs would carry similar counterparty risk to a normal exchange, however the MPAs are backed by on chain collateral and are thusnot subject to that risk. Depending on the market, you could have similar counterparty risk if it is UIA:UIA, half the risk(UIA:MPA) or none of the risk (MPA:MPA).
Correct. That is how I understand it also. I glanced over where methodise said "bitassets". I was talking about the risk involved bin trading other blockchains on our "DEX".

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Offline lafona

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The key difference lies in whether you are trading a UIA(user issued asset, open.btc, trade.btc, etc) or a (MPA market pegged asset/smartcoin, bitUSD, bitBTC, bitCNY). UIAs would carry similar counterparty risk to a normal exchange, however the MPAs are backed by on chain collateral and are thusnot subject to that risk. Depending on the market, you could have similar counterparty risk if it is UIA:UIA, half the risk(UIA:MPA) or none of the risk (MPA:MPA).
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