Author Topic: If you believe in BTS, why are you not providing liquidity?  (Read 4936 times)

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Offline cylonmaker2053

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Indeed, I enter a price slightly inferior to be sure I wasn't doing anything wrong entering the same price.

Anyway, you are right, I just needed to be patient. Everything in order ;)

Thanks again. I think if more people knew how simple it is, that wall would look like as a simple brick very soon.

cool, glad it worked out. i just noticed something for the first time today while shorting bitCNY...if there's no buy wall then the price of your short dynamically updates to the peg spot price. that's kind of cool and guarantees you won't be ripped off by not constantly watching the peg.

i just can't wait for these markets to become more liquid. it'd be great to see some financial institutions using our products for big block trades, currency hedging, moving funds across borders more cheaply, etc.

Offline EstefanTT

Indeed, I enter a price slightly inferior to be sure I wasn't doing anything wrong entering the same price.

Anyway, you are right, I just needed to be patient. Everything in order ;)

Thanks again. I think if more people knew how simple it is, that wall would look like as a simple brick very soon.

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Offline cylonmaker2053

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Thanks a lot CyclonMaker ;)

One last thing. Is it normal ?



It should sell my BitUSD no ? The price is below the wall price

my pleasure :)

sometimes trades take a minute or so to catch up to the block, but it looks like your trade went through. did you just put it in at the highest bid price? there's never a need to go below highest bid, unless you need more volume traded.

Offline EstefanTT

Thanks a lot CyclonMaker ;)

One last thing. Is it normal ?



It should sell my BitUSD no ? The price is below the wall price
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Offline cylonmaker2053

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Do you have some ratio in mind that could help me ?

you can't go wrong with something like 10%-20% if you wanted a min threshold; more can't hurt anything other than potential profits.

Offline EstefanTT

Do you have some ratio in mind that could help me ?

Also, is it better to fraction it in several times 500 or 1k ? Or a couple of big short is ok ?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 04:00:28 pm by EstefanTT »
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Offline cylonmaker2053

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I just tried it. I create a buy order and a short order slightly above the wall, hit confirm at the same time and voilà, I'm short.

After that, I sold the BitUSD at the wall price. Doing that I'm short but I loose a something like 0.5% right on the moment, right ?

I didn't tried the roll over yet but if I understand it well, I will be doing the same but instead of selling the BitUSD I will use them to cover my old shorts (ex : 3.5 weeks old).

If I'm short with the maximum bts I can. Then I will be able to roll over and over and over but I won't be able to cover and have my bts untill we start having some serious liquidity, right ?

Anyone knows what will happen with shorts during the transistion to 2.0 ?

i recommend NOT shorting with your full BTS stash as collateral. keep a decent buffer for flexibility in covering, else you'll slip up one day and find your collateral rolled into the big pile at the peg. otherwise, what you're doing should work just fine.

Offline EstefanTT

Shorting is simple.

If the buy wall is at 154 and the sell wall is at 156

Place a buy order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Place a short order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Now hit confirm on both orders and wait for them to fill each other

sell your BitUSD and you are now short.

Do this every 30 days to roll your position over.

Because so many people got burned on the 30 day rule expiring on them, they are gun shy.  But when the 2.0 launches, then everybody will be doing it, because it will be easier, so by then it will be too late to short at these prices.

i do this regularly and roll over shorts every couple weeks.

the voting buttons up top on this thread should include an option for 'Actively shorting bitUSD' so we could get a feel for what % of us are active in the market providing liquidity. i am and will keep shorting bc i am convinced BTS will rally hard at some point.

I just tried it. I create a buy order and a short order slightly above the wall, hit confirm at the same time.

After that, I sold the BitUSD at the wall price. Doing that I'm short but I loose a something like 0.5% on the moment, right ?

Et voilà, I'm short.

I didn't tried the roll over yet but if I understand it well, I will be doing the same but instead of selling the BitUSD I will use them to cover my old shorts (ex : 3.5 weeks old).

If I'm short with the maximum bts I can (keeping enought to rolll over), then I will be able to roll over and over and over but I won't be able to cover and have my bts untill we start having some serious liquidity, right ?

Anyone knows what will happen with shorts during the transistion to 2.0 ?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 03:56:56 pm by EstefanTT »
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Offline xeroc

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I just ran into this comment :

Re: What will happen if nobody shorts ?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 07:04:35 PM »
Quote
BM addresses it here:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16127.msg208102.html#msg208102

It is great that the 10% and 30 day rule was removed, it would have caused the force destruction of bitUSD when there is already an undersupply. That would be the bitshares equivalent of "crossing the streams"


So ... There is or not expiration date with the shorts you do from that date ? If there is not and the transition to BitShares is smooth, I will be happy to short and help reduce this gigantic wall.

Somepne have some info on that or the place I can get it ?
there is a 30 day expiration time .. after expiration your shorts will automatically try to buy AT the feed price .. that's what you see in the bitUSD:BTS market .. lots of expired shorts waiting to get covered

Offline EstefanTT

I just ran into this comment :

Re: What will happen if nobody shorts ?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 07:04:35 PM »
Quote
BM addresses it here:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16127.msg208102.html#msg208102

It is great that the 10% and 30 day rule was removed, it would have caused the force destruction of bitUSD when there is already an undersupply. That would be the bitshares equivalent of "crossing the streams"


So ... There is or not expiration date with the shorts you do from that date ? If there is not and the transition to BitShares is smooth, I will be happy to short and help reduce this gigantic wall.

Somepne have some info on that or the place I can get it ?
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline cylonmaker2053

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Shorting is simple.

If the buy wall is at 154 and the sell wall is at 156

Place a buy order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Place a short order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Now hit confirm on both orders and wait for them to fill each other

sell your BitUSD and you are now short.

Do this every 30 days to roll your position over.

Because so many people got burned on the 30 day rule expiring on them, they are gun shy.  But when the 2.0 launches, then everybody will be doing it, because it will be easier, so by then it will be too late to short at these prices.

i do this regularly and roll over shorts every couple weeks.

the voting buttons up top on this thread should include an option for 'Actively shorting bitUSD' so we could get a feel for what % of us are active in the market providing liquidity. i am and will keep shorting bc i am convinced BTS will rally hard at some point.

Offline Shentist

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The bitUSD market is not a good example!

It was overhyped to a marketcap of >1million USD and now is down to 140k

The expired shorts are the left over stuff of the bearmarket.

Better example is CNY! Was never overhyped and you can't find this big short expired wall on this market. So, if you want a look into a "normal" market then take a look into CNY!

Offline Erlich Bachman

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really?  Wow, I must have got lucky.  So you can't roll over shorts anymore?  Well that sucks.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 05:06:53 pm by Erlich Bachman »
You own the network, but who pays for development?

Offline lil_jay890

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Shorting is simple.

If the buy wall is at 154 and the sell wall is at 156

Place a buy order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Place a short order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Now hit confirm on both orders and wait for them to fill each other

sell your BitUSD and you are now short.

Do this every 30 days to roll your position over.

Because so many people got burned on the 30 day rule expiring on them, they are gun shy.  But when the 2.0 version starts testing, then everybody will be doing it, so by then it will be too late to short at these prices.

I think the method you describe above only works when there are no expired shorts sitting on the order book... If you do this when there are expired shorts, they will buy up the bitUSD you are shorting and you will still be left with an open buy order for bitUSD.

Offline Erlich Bachman

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Shorting is simple.

If the buy wall is at 154 and the sell wall is at 156

Place a buy order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Place a short order for 500 BitUSD at 155 (don't hit confirm)

Now hit confirm on both orders and wait for them to fill each other

sell your BitUSD and you are now short.

Do this every 30 days to roll your position over.

Because so many people got burned on the 30 day rule expiring on them, they are gun shy.  But when the 2.0 launches, then everybody will be doing it, because it will be easier, so by then it will be too late to short at these prices.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:57:48 pm by Erlich Bachman »
You own the network, but who pays for development?

Offline EstefanTT

I didn't completely understand how margin calls worked when I short two months ago. I didn't realise that I only have one month to make profits. As I'm here for three long run, I shorted big thinking I will cover in months or years. Then I've been forced to cover loosing a big chunck of my bts.

It's entirely my fault to not be more informed. I'm not a trader and all of it it's a bit confusding.

I would be more than happy to short again but I fear no having understand everything I need before do it again. 
I also need to read more about the transition of shorts in bts 2.0.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here for the long run and still having all my bankroll in bts. That's not making sense.

There is probably a lot of person in the same position as I am.

Maybe if someone with a good understanding could make a post with a simple and complete explanation on why/how to short. The risks and what will happenned in the transition to 2.0, ... That could potentially make a big difference !

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Offline onceuponatime

I tied up a big proportion of my BTS by donating to the Moonstone project because I thought at the time that what BitShares needed was an easy to use wallet  . So now I am left without enough collateral to do any serious shorting, and without the ability to have much voting power for the delegated of my choice (especially Bunkermining and Kencode).

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

I have had little trouble buying bitUSD from the DEX or anywhere else daily. Though it often takes me a good 5-6 transactions to get the amount I need. I am pretty sure everyone has gone into a holding pattern for the 'better' bitassets to come in 2.0.

Really? Are you talking about 5 BitUSD or 5,000 BitUSD?

Generally a few hundred.
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Offline bitmeat

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I have had little trouble buying bitUSD from the DEX or anywhere else daily. Though it often takes me a good 5-6 transactions to get the amount I need. I am pretty sure everyone has gone into a holding pattern for the 'better' bitassets to come in 2.0.

Really? Are you talking about 5 BitUSD or 5,000 BitUSD?

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

I have had little trouble buying bitUSD from the DEX or anywhere else daily. Though it often takes me a good 5-6 transactions to get the amount I need. I am pretty sure everyone has gone into a holding pattern for the 'better' bitassets to come in 2.0.
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Offline fav

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honestly - I need someone to explain the process in easy words / pictures. also I need to know the risks before I consider a move

Offline Riverhead


There is certainly a chicken and the egg problem with liquidity. I am a big purchaser of bitUSD for use with the Metaexchange.info pair (usually around $1k/day in volume that I need to buy off the DEX). I have about 400k BTS tied up in expired bitGold shorts. I would love to short more bitUSD but until the Gold settles out I can't. Since no one is selling or shorting Gold my options are to short to myself again (during a BTS spike) or wait for my turn in the big pile of Gold that needs to be bought via the expired short.

Once liquidity improves liquidity will improve? Hopefully 2.0 will resolve the stalled markets.

Offline bitmeat

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200% collateral rate is needed to achieve an equilibrium market.

I'm not sure that's the main reason for lack of liquidity. Hopefully will be addressed in BTS 2.0

Offline bitmeat

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I asked the same thing yesterday:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17395.0.html

It looks like most people don't have the patience to sync the client.  I can see that.  So when 2.0 launches, and you can sign up for BitShares and short BitUSD all within 5 minutes, then a whole new market will open up.  That's why I started that last thread.  if 50% of current BTS owners are not even taking advantage of the additional derivative leverage provided by bitcoin2.0 then it's going to be obvious.

Good call, I'll add that option to the poll. Feel free to change your vote.

Offline 天籁

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200% collateral rate is needed to achieve an equilibrium market.

Offline Erlich Bachman

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I asked the same thing yesterday:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17395.0.html

It looks like most people don't have the patience to sync the client.  I can see that.  So when 2.0 launches, and you can sign up for BitShares and short BitUSD all within 5 minutes, then a whole new market will open up.  That's why I started that last thread.  if 50% of current BTS owners are not even taking advantage of the additional derivative leverage provided by bitcoin2.0 then it's going to be obvious.
You own the network, but who pays for development?

Offline bitmeat

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I am short bitUSD and bitEUR ..
option 3 is not really bad assuming as a short you are already bull .. you can ride the price and set back to get you buy-close order be filled eventually ...

You could get margin called with option 3, before you have the chance to cover (due to lack of liquidity).

Offline xeroc

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I am short bitUSD and bitEUR ..
option 3 is not really bad assuming as a short you are already bull .. you can ride the price and set back to get you buy-close order be filled eventually ...

Offline bitmeat

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My assumption is that BTS holders believe in the project, otherwise they would sell it / hedge it. At the moment it is impossible to obtain decent size of BitUSD, and I think that hurts the project's reputation. I'm curious what may be the reason for this, and why are stakeholders not willing to assume some of the risk in the name of the project's success?