Author Topic: bitUSD ATM/Kiosk  (Read 12665 times)

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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Hi all,

I have been totally away from this board. I can confirm all what Devlux has been going on here. Check out some teaser of how the thing looks like in its raw form.

http://bitcoin42.com/blog/teaser-low-cost-lightweight-atm-coming-soon/

Enjoy!

;)

Wow... lets have them EVERYWHERE! :)  +5%
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Offline bitcoin42

Hi all,

I have been totally away from this board. I can confirm all what Devlux has been going on here. Check out some teaser of how the thing looks like in its raw form.

http://bitcoin42.com/blog/teaser-low-cost-lightweight-atm-coming-soon/

Enjoy!

;)

Offline konelectric

If you plain on adding a lot more cards, you might want to add a keyword search so the use doesn't have go through a bunch of pages.
Tweeter: Konelectric. Steemit: Konelectric. Youtube: Patrick Konshak. Success Council: Yourship. Mumble: Yourship or Konelectric.

Offline devlux

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A few more comments:

1. The paging goes one page too far, to a completely empty page with no cards.
2. If you click the wrong payment method, you have to go all the way back out and start over to switch it.

Thank you, that's exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for right now.
I'll be uploading a new version with lots of fixes tonight.  Still don't have bitUSD functional, it works on development but not live.  I'm just scratching my head on it at this point.

Offline Troglodactyl

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A few more comments:

1. The paging goes one page too far, to a completely empty page with no cards.
2. If you click the wrong payment method, you have to go all the way back out and start over to switch it.

Offline roadscape

Probably a bit late in the game for this, but I just realized that the bitUSD logo we're using doesn't match anything I've seen anywhere.  I originally had another guy working with me on the art side and he was the one who obtained assets such as the logos etc.  He was tasked with making sure it was either public domain or creative commons commercial use allowed etc.

I really have no idea where this logo came from.  Does anyone recognize it?  I just don't want to violate any licensing terms.
Also is there an official bitUSD logo we can use?

Thanks!

Check out the media kit here: https://bitshares.org/contact/
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline devlux

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Probably a bit late in the game for this, but I just realized that the bitUSD logo we're using doesn't match anything I've seen anywhere.  I originally had another guy working with me on the art side and he was the one who obtained assets such as the logos etc.  He was tasked with making sure it was either public domain or creative commons commercial use allowed etc.

I really have no idea where this logo came from.  Does anyone recognize it?  I just don't want to violate any licensing terms.
Also is there an official bitUSD logo we can use?

Thanks!

Offline Pheonike


I can see it a scenario where a business can issue it's own gift card to customers and offer a 5% discount. Or 10% discount on purchases if they open a account using the a referral.

Offline devlux

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Hi devlux,
It looks like you are doing something really big here.

But before I make any further comments I'd like to make sure I understand it correctly:
Will the ATM/Payment Kiosk be able to accept and dispense fiat cash?

Assuming the answer is positive:
1. What is the most obvious use case for your kiosks? Where would you see the very first instances to be installed? I guess they are meant to be kept inside the premises of an existing business (e.g. a small shop or a bar) as opposed to being installed in the street (where the security issues are much higher). Could you shed some light on that?
2. Will I be able to top up my BitShares wallet with 100 bitUSD by inserting a 100 USD banknote? And the opposite way: will I be able to get a 100 USD banknote by sending 100 bitUSD to the kiosk?
3. How reliable is your firmware at distinguishing between valid banknotes and counterfeit ones?

Also, could you explain the difference between 1-way and 2-way versions? What does 2-way version do that 1-way doesn't?

#1 Yes indoor only, they are not water proof.
#2 Yes
#3 It's a major manufacturer who specializes in bill acceptors for casinos.  So we hope it's pretty good, but we haven't tested with fakes ourselves.

#4 1-way money goes in, asset comes out.  2-way includes one way functionality but allows you to dispense cash.

That's really great stuff.

I'd like to understand how you envision the business model for these machines.
Let's assume my company becomes a distributor of your machines and we manage to convince a local shop to install one of them on their premises.
Who will be responsible for maintaining the appropriate number of banknotes in the machine: my company or the shop owner?

Because of the flexibility of the machines we expect there to be a lot of business models that crop up around them.
It will really depend on you, the purchaser and what you want to arrange.  The local laws in your area will probably impact this quite a bit.

For example, in SoCal the bulk of these machines will be deployed to replace existing Skyhooks. 
The law in California is changing.  It will soon be very hard to operate a crypto ATM there.  This is major reason we went with the gift card thing.

The law says that soon you won't be able to deal in virtual currency without a special license. 
This could kill the existing ATM operators.

Simplicity allows you to sell electronic gift cards and codes which are not something that falls under this regulation.
One of our exchange partners is providing codes that can be loaded to your exchange account, or if you already have an account there, the credit will be direct.  That provider is not in the USA and so doesn't fall under the money transmitter business guidelines.  You are selling codes that we are acquiring from outside sources and we are not a US company, thus not subject to US Federal Jurisdiction let alone any US State.  We believe it would be the same thing as selling a gift card for Alibaba or Amazon in this case or at worst a PayPal MyCash card.

One of our earliest customers is using this principle to sell codes that are exchangeable directly for ounces of gold and silver at a real gold depository in San Diego.  These codes cannot be faked, they correspond to serialized gold and silver numismatic instruments on deposit. Their ownership is tracked directly on the block chain.  You can go to the depository at any time and physically retrieve your actual metals, or ask for them to be shipped to you at any time. 

However you can also transfer ownership the same way you would any other UIA. 

This reseller's model revolves around providing the depository with free equipment, placement and service in exchange for a per sale fee of a couple of dollars.  They aren't really touching any other crypto.  However the depository will now have hundreds of outlets around the San Diego area without the risk associated from holding gold or other precious metals in a retail environment.

That is just one business model.

A distributor can set their own prices and make their own arrangements with the place where the devices are situated.
In mexico near the border areas they are being marketed as a "casa de cambio" for small offices.

It's getting harder and harder for anything but the smallest businesses to deal with USD here.
Once amounts begin to exceed $300 USD a whole different set of laws apply now days.

Come here for a medical appointment.  You might need to pay $500 USD for the visit and service.
The solution is to use Simplicity in "collection mode" and turn off "exchange mode" 

This way you just stick your dollars in the machine and the Dr's office gets pesos to their account.  This is handled in conjunction with a Mexican bitcoin exchange.  The machine owner and the Dr both have an account at the same exchange.  Each time money is put in the machine, the machine contacts the exchange and does a transfer to the Dr's exchange account for X dollars worth of BTC which is then automatically converted by the exchange into Y pesos.

In this case the machine owner has a route that they service on a regular basis.  These aren't used in a typical mode, the user can't just walk in stick in dollars and get BTC.  There is nothing hardware or software wise preventing the owner, but they configured it this way because it suits their business model.

The distributor in the area does nothing other than sell the machines to the route owner who then services his own machines.

Other areas might be different.  It's quite possible to be owner, reseller & distributor.  Master distributorships exist for the same reason master franchisers exist.  Warranty service points and a single place to ship a large number of units.  They aren't there to sell individual units, but to bring on distributors.

Regional distributors and resellers are allowed to customize their offering to whatever suits their fancy. 
This includes putting up their own front end and even provisioning isolated backends or replacing the backend all together.

The profit depends on the business model of the company doing the distribution.

In short it's your company and your product, you should do whatever makes you the most profit!  :)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 09:13:34 pm by devlux »

jakub

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Hi devlux,
It looks like you are doing something really big here.

But before I make any further comments I'd like to make sure I understand it correctly:
Will the ATM/Payment Kiosk be able to accept and dispense fiat cash?

Assuming the answer is positive:
1. What is the most obvious use case for your kiosks? Where would you see the very first instances to be installed? I guess they are meant to be kept inside the premises of an existing business (e.g. a small shop or a bar) as opposed to being installed in the street (where the security issues are much higher). Could you shed some light on that?
2. Will I be able to top up my BitShares wallet with 100 bitUSD by inserting a 100 USD banknote? And the opposite way: will I be able to get a 100 USD banknote by sending 100 bitUSD to the kiosk?
3. How reliable is your firmware at distinguishing between valid banknotes and counterfeit ones?

Also, could you explain the difference between 1-way and 2-way versions? What does 2-way version do that 1-way doesn't?

#1 Yes indoor only, they are not water proof.
#2 Yes
#3 It's a major manufacturer who specializes in bill acceptors for casinos.  So we hope it's pretty good, but we haven't tested with fakes ourselves.

#4 1-way money goes in, asset comes out.  2-way includes one way functionality but allows you to dispense cash.

That's really great stuff.

I'd like to understand how you envision the business model for these machines.
Let's assume my company becomes a distributor of your machines and we manage to convince a local shop to install one of them on their premises.
Who will be responsible for maintaining the appropriate number of banknotes in the machine: my company or the shop owner?

Offline devlux

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And one more question: is your project in any way related to this one
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16490.0.html
or is it a completely separate initiative?

bitcoin42 said they would crowdfund on gemspace.net https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16490.msg211215.html#msg211215

I think that's being read wrong because Alec is German.  Good with English and almost a native speaker, but sometimes the written word gets confusing.

Bitcoin42 = Alec Hahn's company that specializes in selling and servicing crypto-atms in Mexico & LATAM.  They were a major sponsor of this work.  They are the master distributor for Mexico.

Gemspace = A company that specializes in crowd sourced funding for startup companies.  We asked Alec Hahn to be our CEO a long time ago.  They are not the same entity, but they share a CEO.

Simplicity =  The ATM you see before you.  Designed to be drop dead simple to operate, while providing a host of features that will make it desirable and eye catching.  It was first thought up by a group of Skyhook owners who between them owned most of the Skyhooks in Southern California.  They were having problems with reliability and asked me to step in an come up with a plan to fix it.  In the end I realized that the Skyhook software stack has too many issues, security and otherwise to really be viable in the long term.  Ergo I began work on a new software stack that addressed the concerns.

The end point manufacturer for Simplicity hardware is Privada but the owners of Privada are also directly involved in Gemspace.  So the Gemspace brand is being used and simplicity is really just the software stack.  The Simplicity IP, such as software and branding is owned by Gemspace, but ATMs are not Gemspace's core competency, Gemspace is focused on crowdfunding as I mentioned previously.

The decision was made early this year that we were going to produce a low cost, solidly built attractive ATM that could compete with the Skyhook in terms of price.  The purpose is to spur mass adoption of crypto-currencies as a method of payment and provide a gateway for people globally to load crypto-accounts.  A major reason they exist is so that you can sell BitAssets through them. 

Most Gemspace offerings will be offered on NXT or Bitshares (depends on the company and what features they need), we gateway that in the background.  The user doesn't have to worry about it. 

As long as the owner of the ATM keeps the Gemspace Public "UIA" tick box, enabled in their settings,   Users will be able to go to their ATM to buy and sell bitAssets.  It is the default, you have to disable it for it to not work.

bitUSD is the prefered settlement mechanism.  I haven't even bothered to place hooks in the backend for settlement via anything else.

Offline devlux

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I went to  http://simplicity.gemspace.net/. You have a good selections of gift cards. What's the clock/timer for?

It looks like an inactivity timer to return to the home screen to me.  It looks like there's a bug that adds 60 seconds to it every time there's any activity instead of resetting it to 60 or to max(current,60).  The clock button in the bottom right appears to be a "more time" button, but the timer is also not reset when clicking the home button.  This means that if one user repeatedly clicks "more time" and then clicks home and leaves, the following user may have an unreasonable timeout when starting a session.

Both of these should be super easy fixes and aren't that big a deal.

Ohh good catch!  I fixed that weeks ago.  I'll go through the code and see what changed.

Yes it's an inactivity timer to let the user know how much time they have before they will be shunted back to the mainscreen.  It can be disabled, I leave it there because when it does hit zero it sometimes throws console spam that I'm still trying to find the root cause of.  It doesn't always happen and it doesn't appear to effect anything when it does.  But warnings are always errors to me.

Offline devlux

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Hi devlux,
It looks like you are doing something really big here.

But before I make any further comments I'd like to make sure I understand it correctly:
Will the ATM/Payment Kiosk be able to accept and dispense fiat cash?

Assuming the answer is positive:
1. What is the most obvious use case for your kiosks? Where would you see the very first instances to be installed? I guess they are meant to be kept inside the premises of an existing business (e.g. a small shop or a bar) as opposed to being installed in the street (where the security issues are much higher). Could you shed some light on that?
2. Will I be able to top up my BitShares wallet with 100 bitUSD by inserting a 100 USD banknote? And the opposite way: will I be able to get a 100 USD banknote by sending 100 bitUSD to the kiosk?
3. How reliable is your firmware at distinguishing between valid banknotes and counterfeit ones?

Also, could you explain the difference between 1-way and 2-way versions? What does 2-way version do that 1-way doesn't?

#1 Yes indoor only, they are not water proof.
#2 Yes
#3 It's a major manufacturer who specializes in bill acceptors for casinos.  So we hope it's pretty good, but we haven't tested with fakes ourselves.

#4 1-way money goes in, asset comes out.  2-way includes one way functionality but allows you to dispense cash.

Offline devlux

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And one more question: is your project in any way related to this one
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16490.0.html
or is it a completely separate initiative?

I only had time to glance at the link but I can tell you it's the same project. 
If anything differs from what he is saying then it's my mistake, but likely the business plan evolved since may.  I'm only the technical side of things around here I'm not business or marketing, some things stay in flux.

Bitcoin42 is Alec Hahn's company.  They sponsored the development of the project in exchange for master distribution rights.  Alec Hahn is CEO of Gemspace he speaks in an official capacity in regards to all business related matters.

Offline sudo

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cool   
wish  bitUSD volume liquid  better