Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community

[triox]

To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds? Suggesting a sharedrop on ancient "AGS/PTS" that's supposed to be abandoned and worthless, and on BM's stupid toy that he has absolute control over ??

And how does that even make any logical sense? PTS is the demographic of random Chinese miners, and AGS are people who once invested in something two years ago, woo-hoo. How does sharedroping on them accomplish anything from Rune's POV?

I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

[liondani]

However I don't know if there's an easy way to prove and verify a PTS and BTS balance,

let us vote a delegate you create maybe?

[bobmaloney]

I am obviously fine with whatever you  decide but I would think that the best sharedrop would obviously be mostly to BTS, then Brownie.PTS  but also AGS and old PTS. This way you attract everyone. Core Devs, active members, users, donators and people with vision. 

AGS / old PTS also may not even claim their shares since they won't risk to expose their private keys right?

Agreed:

I'm going to go ahead and throw out the following suggestion from the standpoint that it:

1. Casts the widest net

2. Offers the possibility of bringing back the attention of some early supporters that recognized the need and importance of something like bitUSD (but have drifted away due to numerous reasons) to Bitshares, while introducing them to Maker.

5% - PTS
5% - AGS
5% - BTS
5% - Brownie.PTS

The demographics of each group listed above offers a unique set of potential benefits/qualities and that it would be wise to consider what may be gained from including all of them.

Obviously, the recommendations from those CURRENTLY in the forum for this single snapshot of time will side heavily on BTS/Brownie.PTS (and which I would personally gain most from) - but this community has seen plenty of interest and early support from individuals who could probably be found more heavily in PTS/AGS as well.

My .02 BTS

*The only keys I would recommend excluding from this are Cryptsy's PTS keys (if they are known).

I was fortunate enough to not have any PTS on Cryptsy during any snapshots, but I still don't see how there wasn't more uproar about such outright and blatant theft.

[Ander]

Agree with Ander. Brownie holders' commitment level is higher than BTS. Also no exchange is included.

That is completely false and is a generalization... Brownie holders are cherry picked based on what BM feels is important.  His ideas of importance may be vastly different than what is actually valuable to BTS.

I should reiterate that I prefer BTS sharedrop not Brownie.  Its just that Brownie matched up decently (not perfectly) with what he was saying he was targetting.

[mf-tzo]

I am obviously fine with whatever you  decide but I would think that the best sharedrop would obviously be mostly to BTS, then Brownie.PTS  but also AGS and old PTS. This way you attract everyone. Core Devs, active members, users, donators and people with vision. 

AGS / old PTS also may not even claim their shares since they won't risk to expose their private keys right?

 

[Rune]

The sybil problem with whale limit is also a concern of mine.

How about a flat sharedrop that requires 1) that you are a core community member who received brownie.pts 2) you have at least 10k BTS (as an example) and prove this when you apply for the sharedrop? This way it would still be an exclusive for people who own BTS only, and would increase the perceived value of BTS. However I don't know if there's an easy way to prove and verify a PTS and BTS balance, obviously it shouldn't require too much manpower to administer the sharedrop either. Perhaps a trusted community member would be willing to take charge of administering the sharedrop?

[lil_jay890]

Agree with Ander. Brownie holders' commitment level is higher than BTS. Also no exchange is included.

That is completely false and is a generalization... Brownie holders are cherry picked based on what BM feels is important.  His ideas of importance may be vastly different than what is actually valuable to BTS.

[clayop]

Agree with Ander. Brownie holders' commitment level is higher than BTS. Also no exchange is included.

[Ander]

So it seems like most people prefer a proportional sharedrop on BTS. The issue I have with this kind of sharedrop is that it means we're going to give the majority of whatever amount of MKR we end up deciding to sharedrop to a few whales and exchanges (if we dont decide to exempt exchange addresses from the sharedrop).

However from my point of view I'm only able to see the value gained per person, i.e. active community member that we sharedrop on, which is why my first thought was to do a flat sharedrop to all "core members". This is basically like paying for eyeballs to look over our stuff and possibly find flaws or opportunities, as they decide whether or not to dump the MKR they received. This value would be the same no matter if it's a BTS whale or someone who holds a tiny amount of BTS, or even no BTS, so I see no compelling value proposition for letting the majority of the sharedrop go to the whales.

I guess you actually should sharedrop on Brownie.PTS then.  (As much as I wish sharedrops would go to BTS, it looks like your target audience.  As long as you are fine giving 10x the stake to dev team members vs forum regulars). 

Alternately, create a post allowing people to sign up to be included, and sharedrop equally on all of them.  Need to have a requirement like at least 'member' post count to avoid people getting several claims by spamming with newbie accounts.

What are your thoughts on this? Also, lets say we did the flat sharedrop so everyone who reads this now owns 100 USD worth of MKR. What would we then gain in return? Would you consider buying more/trading MKR? Would you be active on our forums? Would you sell the MKR as soon as you saw any liquidity?

I would definitely check it out, and would trade it (sell pumps/buy dumps), not just dump it at the first chance. 

[Stan]

So it seems like most people prefer a proportional sharedrop on BTS. The issue I have with this kind of sharedrop is that it means we're going to give the majority of whatever amount of MKR we end up deciding to sharedrop to a few whales and exchanges (if we dont decide to exempt exchange addresses from the sharedrop).

However from my point of view I'm only able to see the value gained per person, i.e. active community member that we sharedrop on, which is why my first thought was to do a flat sharedrop to all "core members". This is basically like paying for eyeballs to look over our stuff and possibly find flaws or opportunities, as they decide whether or not to dump the MKR they received. This value would be the same no matter if it's a BTS whale or someone who holds a tiny amount of BTS, or even no BTS, so I see no compelling value proposition for letting the majority of the sharedrop go to the whales.

A proportional sharedrop only makes sense if it requires a buy in of some kind, in my opinion, as this means it will still only be whales who actually are interested in owning MKR who will take the offer, instead of just gathering MKR and then summarily dump it as soon as they can.

What are your thoughts on this? Also, lets say we did the flat sharedrop so everyone who reads this now owns 100 USD worth of MKR. What would we then gain in return? Would you consider buying more/trading MKR? Would you be active on our forums? Would you sell the MKR as soon as you saw any liquidity?

[EstefanTT]

Maybe a proportional share drop will give too much to some whale who just care about the investment and not enough to some highly motivated members who are not able to buy more bts ...

BUT, it's the better way to be fair with a whole community.

Choosing to use pts, ags, browies, proportional share drop with cap or a mix of them will make some people unhappy. That's not, IMHO, the goal of your operation.



Anyway, if the proportional share drop eventually not please you, I would recommend share dropping on blond male members, between 34 and 35 years old, born in Belgium and big fan of BitShares .... 

[puppies]

That's true Stan.

You could conceivably drop only on addresses holding let's say 5M+ bts.  I'm not sure which strategy would be more effective. 

[Stan]

Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea. 

me2 

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.

The drop is proportional to bts balance up to a certain amount so empty addresses would get nothing.  Someone that had more than the cap spread out could game the system, but I don't think this would be a huge problem in practice

So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

K.I.S.S. is the best option for this.  Keep it simple, drop on BTS, vest for 6 months, hopefully MKR grows in popularity during the vesting period and there is minimal sell pressure when shares vest.  This also allows MKR to market and grow awareness for their recently dropped coins.

I don't see a reason for a minimum.  I was thinking a proportional share drop with an upward cap.

The only people with an incentive to split their balances would be those with balances above the cap.  .i.e whales. 

If we really think that is going to be a problem, we can use a previous block to generate the genesis, so the whales wouldn't have a chance to split accounts.

***edit***  nomoreheros beat me to both points. lol

Interesting attitude about whales.
The guys most likely to have the influence and resources and HODLing power necessary to make your  project a success.

[lil_jay890]

So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

I would imagine the drop is proportional to BTS held. Say x% of BTS held per address up to a max of say 1,000,000 BTS. Empty addresses get nothing. The only ones who might game it would be those with like 5 million BTS split across a bunch of accounts. Doubt that's going to be a huge problem though. And it would make it so exchanges like BTC38 don't get credited for their millions upon millions of BTS held (unless they too split accounts? not sure).

Hell you could even make the sharedrop effective as of stake held yesterday, before we even thought of this, hah.

It's a weird situation that we are in here.  Rune wants support from our community, but doesn't plan on using the BTS technology from what I understand.  He could create an asset, and post on the forum for people to claim the asset.  He could even use the Brownie pt google spread sheet that Fuzzy created to get a list of active BTS members.  Since he wants support from more vocal members, this would be a good sharedrop target.  Send the newly created asset to the members on the spreadsheet from say the 8/7/15 mumble and let them claim their MKR using the newly issued asset.

I still don't think its a big deal if exchanges get the share drop... They can pass the dropped tokens on to their customers. 

[puppies]

Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea. 

me2 

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.

The drop is proportional to bts balance up to a certain amount so empty addresses would get nothing.  Someone that had more than the cap spread out could game the system, but I don't think this would be a huge problem in practice

So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

K.I.S.S. is the best option for this.  Keep it simple, drop on BTS, vest for 6 months, hopefully MKR grows in popularity during the vesting period and there is minimal sell pressure when shares vest.  This also allows MKR to market and grow awareness for their recently dropped coins.

I don't see a reason for a minimum.  I was thinking a proportional share drop with an upward cap.

The only people with an incentive to split their balances would be those with balances above the cap.  .i.e whales. 

If we really think that is going to be a problem, we can use a previous block to generate the genesis, so the whales wouldn't have a chance to split accounts.

***edit***  nomoreheros beat me to both points. lol