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Offline underwun

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2015, 10:05:57 PM »
What functionality does Ethereum have (or promise to have in the future) over BitShares? How much does the name "Ethereum" contribute to its current 10x market cap advantage over BitShares?

Etherium has a good market cap because they were able to get momentum behind their tech. That counts more than many here would like to believe.

Thank you I enjoy your comments and it would be remiss of me not to reply to you directly.

I've posted a general statement above and I agree that the D drowns the I and turns the name into a mouth guard, or something for kids with overbite.

The name is not precious but the strategy is and how the name interrelates with other names is important. As mentioned in the link below, the name is part of a family of names intended for use over the next few years where one of the most important being Remitabit. I need to expand the point behind rolling out Identabit first and how Remitabit is related but in short, I'll share the following:

Remitabit has a unique compelling model that we are keen to introduce but we came to believe that an anonymous blockchain wasn't going to cut it with institutional partners and that we needed to establish a case for an institutionally acceptable blockchain. Remitabit will sit atop Identabit but we didn't want to bring it out and have the identity argument drown the remittance story, so Phase 1. identity, Phase 2 remittances and the massive adoption of Remitabits driving the value of Identabits.

A quick message to our competitors, hiding beneath the surface are features and dependency on the Bitshares architecture that make this model work and sustainable despite increased government intervention. So we wish you luck but get use to the fact that we have spent nearly two years to get to this place and we are in this for the long haul...so get used to seeing us around.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr

« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 10:08:39 PM by underwun »
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Offline underwun

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2015, 10:14:48 PM »
The website is written in British English, which since your Aussie makes sense, but I am not sure which version of English is preferred for a worldwide audience.

I personally prefer British English, and subconsciously have a better impression when someone uses it flawlessly.

Pip Pip Old Boy  :D

Wicked, FYI I'm a mix, born in the UK, left after school for Australia and then lived in HK and New York...so my english is all over the place.

I think despite your constructive and complimentary words we should Americanise our content but I am afraid I have no choice but to use my botched version of the English language in the forum, so all I can ask is for your understanding.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 12:58:53 AM by underwun »
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Offline underwun

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2015, 01:59:32 AM »
It's quite telling that a discussion thread dedicated to criticism ended up to be purely about the name.
And that's because that's the case really - everything is solid and flawless except the name.

I think to myself: what a shame such a great idea is going to be wasted for such trivial reason.
So please John don't kill your brilliant child with an ill-chosen name. It will come and haunt you when you try to promote it. People are mostly irrational and the name will distract them from the concept itself.

What I already proposed in the other thread is this: IDENTICON. It's not perfect but the best I can come up with if we need to have the word "identity" embedded in it.

Or it can even be Pied Piper  ;)

Thank you Jakub of the many comments yours is the most penetrating...it has left me with two conflicting thoughts

The first being we should open the door to anyone that can come up with a family of names that supports our vision for the blockchain and the strategic products that will flow from it - (please check the following so you are able to consider the implications)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr or

A second thought is that the name is clearly a win given the attention it has drawn...I am increasingly thinking the big D has to go however...it definitely made people think of experiences we would prefer to forget.

In the interest of suggesting a name where the .com .org.info are available (as with Identabit.com/org/info) Maybe we should have called it armlessmonkey.com ;-)
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Offline pendragon3

Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2015, 06:33:46 AM »
This is an ambitious and extremely thoughtful proposal you've forwarded here. You make a compelling case for bringing to market--and none too soon--a currency that will help fill a void, delivering on the promises that we know Bitcoin cannot.

About the name "IDentabit": yes, it's drawn attention here on this thread, but frankly I'm quite skeptical that means the name is clearly a win. It's not the capital "D" that is most concerning. Actually, "Identabit" would be memorable to consumers, as would be "Remitabit", provided that critical mass had already been achieved. These would be perfectly fine names for a company, a protocol, a platform... or a blockchain. But they would definitely be less useful as names of currency units. Perhaps most importantly, these names are unwieldy. Being four syllables, "Identabit" is a risky choice for currency units because it won't make it easy for people to speak of, think of, spell, and read about without stumbling over them or, worse yet, scoffing at them. All of this could impede the rapid uptake of the currency by consumers. Maybe when crypto has become mainstream, then clunky, long currency names will be more typical and more effective. But I don't think we are there yet, not nearly so.

Have you considered keeping "Identabit" and "Remitabit" as the names of the respective blockchains but using shorter and simpler names for the actual currency units? Using different names for tradeable units and their underlying blockchain seems to be quite a common practice nowadays: e.g., Ripple and XRP, Ethereum and Ether, MUSE and notes, etc.

You could call the blockchain "Identabit" but the currency units "IDbits" (which would jive well with "IDbank" and "IDpay"). Likewise, you could call the Remitabit blockchain's currency units "Rembits". The logo for IDbits (which evokes Bitcoin's logo) could stay the same. Which of the following sounds better: "I'd like to send you XX.XX Remitabits" versus "I'd like to send you XX.XX Rembits". Or "That'll be XX.XX Identabits, please" versus "That'll be XX.XX IDbits, please". To me, it seems obvious that the short & sweet names are more likely to catch on.

Another thought is that you could promote the usage of abbreviations for Identabits as much as possible, so that users would come to refer to them as IDB. Remitabits could be RMB (or some variation thereof to avoid confusion with the symbol for Chinese currency).

Offline underwun

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2015, 07:00:48 AM »
This is an ambitious and extremely thoughtful proposal you've forwarded here. You make a compelling case for bringing to market--and none too soon--a currency that will help fill a void, delivering on the promises that we know Bitcoin cannot.

About the name "IDentabit": yes, it's drawn attention here on this thread, but frankly I'm quite skeptical that means the name is clearly a win. It's not the capital "D" that is most concerning. Actually, "Identabit" would be memorable to consumers, as would be "Remitabit", provided that critical mass had already been achieved. These would be perfectly fine names for a company, a protocol, a platform... or a blockchain. But they would definitely be less useful as names of currency units. Perhaps most importantly, these names are unwieldy. Being four syllables, "Identabit" is a risky choice for currency units because it won't make it easy for people to speak of, think of, spell, and read about without stumbling over them or, worse yet, scoffing at them. All of this could impede the rapid uptake of the currency by consumers. Maybe when crypto has become mainstream, then clunky, long currency names will be more typical and more effective. But I don't think we are there yet, not nearly so.

Have you considered keeping "Identabit" and "Remitabit" as the names of the respective blockchains but using shorter and simpler names for the actual currency units? Using different names for tradeable units and their underlying blockchain seems to be quite a common practice nowadays: e.g., Ripple and XRP, Ethereum and Ether, MUSE and notes, etc.

You could call the blockchain "Identabit" but the currency units "IDbits" (which would jive well with "IDbank" and "IDpay"). Likewise, you could call the Remitabit blockchain's currency units "Rembits". The logo for IDbits (which evokes Bitcoin's logo) could stay the same. Which of the following sounds better: "I'd like to send you XX.XX Remitabits" versus "I'd like to send you XX.XX Rembits". Or "That'll be XX.XX Identabits, please" versus "That'll be XX.XX IDbits, please". To me, it seems obvious that the short & sweet names are more likely to catch on.

Another thought is that you could promote the usage of abbreviations for Identabits as much as possible, so that users would come to refer to them as IDB. Remitabits could be RMB (or some variation thereof to avoid confusion with the symbol for Chinese currency).

Sensible words we do in fact intend to refer to Identabits as IDB
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jakub

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2015, 08:51:54 AM »
It seems that a large part of the branding idea hinges upon the "similar but different" strategy.
Do we really need that? It imposes lots of limitations on us but IMHO does not bring many benefits.

Bitcoin has very vague branding as no single company is managing it. Even if it has any branding at all, it is non-existent in mass awareness.
Anyway, hardcore Bitcoin believers are not going to be our target audience. And people who don't care too much about Bitcoin (just have heard about it or used it only a couple of times) are not going to take notice of the "similar but different" strategy.

But maybe I'm missing something. What was the reasoning that led to it?

I know you selected Bitcoin as your main competitor but does it really matter for an average Joe who is probably not very familiar with the nuances of the crypto-world?
(And an average Joe is the important guy here as you rightly aim at the retail market, not financial institutions)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 11:07:38 AM by jakub »

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2015, 09:04:33 AM »
The branding brief mentions "an easy to remember retail name".
I think I have a brilliant name proposition. Actually a couple of them:

YOUNIQUE or  UNIQ

YOUBIT or  UBIT

I especially like UBIT. As a currency unit it is just perfect.

It sounds natural: "You owe me 12 ubits."
And it plays out nicely: it is your virtual currency and your identity.

What's more, ubit.org and youbit.com are still available.

As for the other service I'd go for REMIT. Then you'd have a nicely matching pair: UBIT & REMIT.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 11:06:12 AM by jakub »

Offline liondani

Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2015, 11:32:30 AM »
It seems they will stick on their first  choice whatever we will suggest here...  :-[
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2015, 11:50:21 AM »
It seems they will stick on their first  choice whatever we will suggest here...  :-[
and it's their right to do so .. isn't it?
I am sure John does not want to you to take any of his decisions personally .. so let's move on and find something else he could improve ..

For instance,

would it be possible to have a distributed entity of verification? E.g. you can get verified in europe OR in the U.S. or in japan .. but as a German, I can participate if I am only verified by Germany?
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jakub

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2015, 11:53:15 AM »
It seems they will stick on their first  choice whatever we will suggest here...  :-[

Fortunately John seems to be open-minded as he wrote this:
The name is not precious but the strategy is and how the name interrelates with other names is important.
and this:
I have a meeting with some marketing folk this week and I will see what they say and I'll let you know, but I'd like to say thank you for the effort made debating the name and confirming a concern.

I'm determined to do my best to convince him as the more I think about it the more it appears to me that business-wise the idea is absolutely brilliant.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2015, 12:44:41 PM »
My comments on the branding document:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18xqqkgtv6a9nC_KlZL3TAkN-Rl_xMRFb7uADtnzHbsQ/edit?usp=sharing

(made a separate document to keep the original one readable).
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 02:13:24 PM by delulo »

Offline pendragon3

Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2015, 01:45:21 PM »
The branding brief mentions "an easy to remember retail name".
I think I have a brilliant name proposition. Actually a couple of them:

YOUNIQUE or  UNIQ

YOUBIT or  UBIT

I especially like UBIT. As a currency unit it is just perfect.

It sounds natural: "You owe me 12 ubits."
And it plays out nicely: it is your virtual currency and your identity.

What's more, ubit.org and youbit.com are still available.

As for the other service I'd go for REMIT. Then you'd have a nicely matching pair: UBIT & REMIT.


ubit.

Brilliant suggestion, jakub. Absolutely brilliant.

"ubit", imo, is a perfect name for a consumer-oriented currency intended to challenge Bitcoin head-on.

"ubit" is short, simple, memorable, and replete with meaning. It seems to have almost unlimited potential. It even subliminally evokes "uber." If John can fit this name into his plans for the naming system and future business strategy, that would be a huge coup. Maybe the currency name is not as precious as the overall business strategy, but here's one instance where the name could dramatically boost the rate of uptake by consumers, young and old.

I'm surprised that ubit.org and ubit.net are still available.

Offline liondani

Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2015, 02:07:16 PM »
 +5% for

ubit 
idex
unique
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Offline valzav

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Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2015, 02:40:18 PM »
 +5% for ubit
btw ubit.org is already taken

underwun, I think the name decision should be based on what is your target audience, if it's for instance financial institutions - Identabit would make a sense because the may care about "identity" and have a value proposition in the name can be a good thing, but if you are going to promote it to more mass market Identabit name wouldn't contain any value proposition for them and having more simple name like ubit or idex can have more benefits. If you are going to target Bitcoin users and crypto enthusiasts, having identity in it's name can even do some harm.
Also more general name you use, the easier it would be to pivot and target different markets.
Take a look at Dash - they were able to double their market cap with rebranding.
More good names examples (in my opinion): Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Graphene (btw I suggested to call new version Graphene and I think the name works great so far, I was even advocating to rebrand Bitshares into Graphene completely).

Offline Samupaha

Re: Important Criticism
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2015, 02:47:24 PM »
Identabit is just fine (just drop the capital D).

I don't get this trend that companies or products has to be named with commonly used words like "circle" or "square" or "unique". Never tried to google a word like that? There will be many pages of results until the company site will be found.

Also it would be nice if the name is easily pronounceable for both english and non-english speakers. No weird phones/sounds. If somebody says the name, you should be able to know or easily guess how that it is written. "Younique" is a bad example, because if you say it, you need to explain every time that "it's like unique but with yo in front of it" and people will be like "WTF?".

"Bitcoin" is pretty good name. Simple but no other existing meanings. Easy to pronounce and write, although it has letter c which is retarded (it can be pronounced like k or s – how drunk somebody has been when he has invented that letter?).

 

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