Collateral Holder Accounts

[bytemaster]

The transfer issue has been fixed in the latest light wallet and I believe open ledger.

[iHashFury]

How do you close a 'usd-collateral-holder' position?

When I 'Update Position' and 'Collateral change   -424.46933 CORE' the CORE asset is displayed in the 'usd-collateral-holder' balance

Then when I try to transfer the 'CORE' to my account name, the GUI says 'usd-collateral-holder' is 'Not your account'

Also, all my collateral-holders Memo Keys says 'Not a valid public key'

Same problem here

Is this issue resolved?

[tonyk]

Bump!

Well I have several million BTS in accounts* that "are not mine"....the fix was supposed to be up today!!!

* usd-collateral-holder-*

[svk]

I do not know what to tell you

BLACK_SWAN =  debt / collateral

Call Price =     BLACK_SWAN * 1750 / 1000

To calculate the Collateral Ratio of a Given Position you need to know the Call Price and the Price Feed

COLLATERAL * FEED_PRICE   ==   X USD

X USD / TOTAL_DEBT  == Collateral Ratio

We will assume the BTS price is 55 USD /10000 CORE

So I want to borrow $100 USD

I need about 18000 CORE to be 100% backed

to have the minimal ratio I will need    18000*1.75

So my Debt would $100 USD and my minimal collateral would be 31500 CORE

to have a 10x ratio I will need   18000 * 10.00  => 180,000 CORE

The CALL price is then calculated as

100 / 180,000   * 1.75/1     =>   175/180,000  =>   0.0009722222222 USD / CORE or 1028 CORE / USD

I have no desire to think in prices stated like " we sell cars at  0.0004567 cars per 1.63 dollars" 


On a more serious note, it seems the % in my equation is 175% not 150% ...if you find it somewhat more easy to use prices like "we sell beer, our price is 2 usd per bottle "

Ha-ha so true, I actually asked him to do it the other way around before he started but either he didn't see it or he just prefers doing it that way

[wmbutler]

Assuming the math is right, I understand the existing layout pretty well as is. It's designed to show you the limits and compare those to your current leverage.

[tonyk]

I do not know what to tell you

BLACK_SWAN =  debt / collateral

Call Price =     BLACK_SWAN * 1750 / 1000

To calculate the Collateral Ratio of a Given Position you need to know the Call Price and the Price Feed

COLLATERAL * FEED_PRICE   ==   X USD

X USD / TOTAL_DEBT  == Collateral Ratio

We will assume the BTS price is 55 USD /10000 CORE

So I want to borrow $100 USD

I need about 18000 CORE to be 100% backed

to have the minimal ratio I will need    18000*1.75

So my Debt would $100 USD and my minimal collateral would be 31500 CORE

to have a 10x ratio I will need   18000 * 10.00  => 180,000 CORE

The CALL price is then calculated as

100 / 180,000   * 1.75/1     =>   175/180,000  =>   0.0009722222222 USD / CORE or 1028 CORE / USD

I have no desire to think in prices stated like " we sell cars at  0.0004567 cars per 1.63 dollars" 


On a more serious note, it seems the % in my equation is 175% not 150% ...if you find it somewhat more easy to use prices like "we sell beer, our price is 2 usd per bottle "

[svk]

And it should calculate the "Your call price" correctly!

Not that BM has answered the 7 times I have asked or anybody has answered in which file I can find it myself in the code!

 So, I just assume it is indeed 150%,.

Total Collateral ^* / Call price ^**  = 150% * (Amount of bitAsset 'borrowed')

* in BTS
** in BTS/bitAsset

I'll just copy paste some stuff BM explained on slack:

BLACK_SWAN =  debt / collateral

Call Price =     BLACK_SWAN * 1750 / 1000

To calculate the Collateral Ratio of a Given Position you need to know the Call Price and the Price Feed

COLLATERAL * FEED_PRICE   ==   X USD

X USD / TOTAL_DEBT  == Collateral Ratio

And an example:

We will assume the BTS price is 55 USD /10000 CORE

So I want to borrow $100 USD

I need about 18000 CORE to be 100% backed

to have the minimal ratio I will need    18000*1.75

So my Debt would $100 USD and my minimal collateral would be 31500 CORE

to have a 10x ratio I will need   18000 * 10.00  => 180,000 CORE

The CALL price is then calculated as

100 / 180,000   * 1.75/1     =>   175/180,000  =>   0.0009722222222 USD / CORE or 1028 CORE / USD

And another one:

82.8731 USD

150,105.90839 CORE

Swan Price = 0.0005529462709

Call Price =   82.8731*1.75 / 150105.9  =>  0.0009661707168

[svk]

so it becomes:

Feed price: 181.872093023 BTS/USD
Margin Call Ratio: 150% 
Maintenance Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
Your Call Price: 290.00BTS/USD

and the italic is changing with the slider for each amount of collateral.

Isn't that kind of what I'm already showing though? The margin call price itself is independent of your actual position and only depends on the feed price and the squeeze ratio, which is 150%. This gives us what's listed as the Margin Call Price. Next we have the Maintenance price, which is at 175% of the feed price, the blockchain won't let you open a margin position below this ratio.

Finally I list the price of your position calculated with the debt and collateral you're currently setting.

 It would probably be good to show the ratio, and the maintenance price I could probably remove.

[tonyk]

And it should calculate the "Your call price" correctly!

Not that BM has answered the 7 times I have asked or anybody has answered in which file I can find it myself in the code!

 So, I just assume it is indeed 150%,.

Total Collateral ^* / Call price ^**  = 150% * (Amount of bitAsset 'borrowed')

* in BTS
** in BTS/bitAsset

[tonyk]

 so it becomes:

Feed price: 181.872093023 BTS/USD
Margin Call Ratio: 150% 
Maintenance Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
Your Call Price: 290.00BTS/USD

and the italic is changing with the slider for each amount of collateral.

[tonyk]

Oh boy .. there is so much more documentation required inside the wallet .. I hardly can keep up with all the work .. sorry for the inconvenience ..

It is not any kind of documentation, it is the pop up itself containing the wrong info...and I am 99% sure it was not written by you/Dan or drltc.

Looks like you're wrong and Bytemaster wrote it: https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/commit/811402498ec1cb9da37258d6f2d6ae0722bd753b

But if there's something wrong with the info it would be more helpful if you tell us what it is.

Even better, you could correct it yourself here:  https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/blob/811402498ec1cb9da37258d6f2d6ae0722bd753b/help/en/components/BorrowModal.md

I think if you make a Github account you can edit it directly and propose a change.

>>
Feed price: 181.872093023 BTS/USD
Margin Call Price: 272.808139535 BTS/USD
Maintenance Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
Your Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
>>>>

"Your call price" is not mine... I will be called at the  "Margin Call Price" .all this of course is the case when I start with exactly 1.75x collateral

if I move it up (to say 2.00x) it becomes even more absurd... The uninformative "Your Call Price" goes up showing me what exactly? However the "Margin Call Price" stays the same showing me that if I have 1.75x collateral instead of what I am about to put my position would be called.


So in all in all, I can not fix it just changing the text...it takes other changes as well.

Yea it's badly named I agree, blame it on the lack of sleep I had recently.. What it is is the equivalent price of your position but I'm sure you realized that, I figured that would be useful, is it not worth having there?

What is worth having (and changing with the slider) is one's actual liquidation price. i.e. this "Margin Call Price: 272.808139535 BTS/USD" at each particular collateral amount (level).

[svk]

Oh boy .. there is so much more documentation required inside the wallet .. I hardly can keep up with all the work .. sorry for the inconvenience ..

It is not any kind of documentation, it is the pop up itself containing the wrong info...and I am 99% sure it was not written by you/Dan or drltc.

Looks like you're wrong and Bytemaster wrote it: https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/commit/811402498ec1cb9da37258d6f2d6ae0722bd753b

But if there's something wrong with the info it would be more helpful if you tell us what it is.

Even better, you could correct it yourself here:  https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/blob/811402498ec1cb9da37258d6f2d6ae0722bd753b/help/en/components/BorrowModal.md

I think if you make a Github account you can edit it directly and propose a change.

>>
Feed price: 181.872093023 BTS/USD
Margin Call Price: 272.808139535 BTS/USD
Maintenance Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
Your Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
>>>>

"Your call price" is not mine... I will be called at the  "Margin Call Price" .all this of course is the case when I start with exactly 1.75x collateral

if I move it up (to say 2.00x) it becomes even more absurd... The uninformative "Your Call Price" goes up showing me what exactly? However the "Margin Call Price" stays the same showing me that if I have 1.75x collateral instead of what I am about to put my position would be called.


So in all in all, I can not fix it just changing the text...it takes other changes as well.

Yea it's badly named I agree, blame it on the lack of sleep I had recently.. What it is is the equivalent price of your position but I'm sure you realized that, I figured that would be useful, is it not worth having there?

[tonyk]

Oh boy .. there is so much more documentation required inside the wallet .. I hardly can keep up with all the work .. sorry for the inconvenience ..

It is not any kind of documentation, it is the pop up itself containing the wrong info...and I am 99% sure it was not written by you/Dan or drltc.

Looks like you're wrong and Bytemaster wrote it: https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/commit/811402498ec1cb9da37258d6f2d6ae0722bd753b

But if there's something wrong with the info it would be more helpful if you tell us what it is.

Even better, you could correct it yourself here:  https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/blob/811402498ec1cb9da37258d6f2d6ae0722bd753b/help/en/components/BorrowModal.md

I think if you make a Github account you can edit it directly and propose a change.

>>
Feed price: 181.872093023 BTS/USD
Margin Call Price: 272.808139535 BTS/USD
Maintenance Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
Your Call Price: 318.276162791 BTS/USD
>>>>

"Your call price" is not mine... I will be called at the  "Margin Call Price" .all this of course is the case when I start with exactly 1.75x collateral

if I move it up (to say 2.00x) it becomes even more absurd... The uninformative "Your Call Price" goes up showing me what exactly? However the "Margin Call Price" stays the same showing me that if I have 1.75x collateral instead of what I am about to put my position would be called.


So in all in all, I can not fix it just changing the text...it takes other changes as well.

[clout]

I have several collateral holder accounts. When I try to transfer funds from them the GUI prevents me from doing so and says that they are not my accounts. What are the logistics of managing funds from collateral holder accounts?

Additionally, what are the logistics of closing positions. If I close a position is the collateral sold on the open market or does the bitassest just cease to exist. I closed one position that I had created by shorting to myself and it seemed like the latter occurred.

When you close a position you set your debt and collateral to 0. Say you've borrowed 10 USD and put up 10,000 BTS as collateral. What closing then does is it returns 10 USD to the network, and the 10,000 BTS to yourself. No selling or buying involved, but you do need to have 10 USD in your account for this to be possible, if you don't you will get an error when trying to confirm the transaction. How you get those 10 USD is up to you.

Thanks svk. That's the answer I was looking for. That makes sense.

[svk]

I have several collateral holder accounts. When I try to transfer funds from them the GUI prevents me from doing so and says that they are not my accounts. What are the logistics of managing funds from collateral holder accounts?

Additionally, what are the logistics of closing positions. If I close a position is the collateral sold on the open market or does the bitassest just cease to exist. I closed one position that I had created by shorting to myself and it seemed like the latter occurred.

When you close a position you set your debt and collateral to 0. Say you've borrowed 10 USD and put up 10,000 BTS as collateral. What closing then does is it returns 10 USD to the network, and the 10,000 BTS to yourself. No selling or buying involved, but you do need to have 10 USD in your account for this to be possible, if you don't you will get an error when trying to confirm the transaction. How you get those 10 USD is up to you.