Active (un)voting initiative II

[tbone]

What I meant was that the concept of getting paid for anything other than being a delegate would go away with 2.0, correct?  So my understanding is that under the new system, DataSecurityNode would have to submit a worker proposal which would then be voted on by stakeholders.  So a natural vetting process should take place under those circumstances.  That process should become more effective with 2.0 considering there will be greater participation since people who can't currently vote will soon be able to via the new web wallet.

In any event, I think the MineBitshares project is promising, but I also think the hard questions need to be asked of this or any project paid for by stakeholders.  And I also think you have already asked an important question that should be answered.  Where will the profits go?  And on this front I think there has been some obfuscation (most likely unintentional) with respect to 2 different types of profits i.e. profits for participating miners vs. profits for the business itself, and I think DataSecurityNode needs to be more aware of that as he makes his case.   I would also like to know if, once 2.0 is released, he will be seeking the equivalent of 7 100% delegates worth of current monthly pay going forward, and for how long.  My apologies if that has already been clearly expressed.

Not only that, but delegate pay will only last another month, correct?  So what is the fuss really about?  Am I missing something here?

It seems to me that people make this a bigger monster than it is, simply because they hear the "dilution" word.

Bingo. It's a great talking point but the numbers just don't justify the animosity.

The concept of delegate pay is not abolished with 2.0.

It's about increasing the "quality control" and raising the bar for delegate / worker proposal standards (being as explicit as possible). See also: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18362.msg235704.html#msg235704

A little bit more dilution might not be that relevant (it can have a negative symbolic effect if liquidty is low and the delegate pay is sold right away) but the efficiency of the hiring process of DPOS is only as good as the public disocurse about the proposals. I saw low voting participation and zero discussion so I started the discussion.

[santaclause102]

Not only that, but delegate pay will only last another month, correct?  So what is the fuss really about?  Am I missing something here?

It seems to me that people make this a bigger monster than it is, simply because they hear the "dilution" word.

Bingo. It's a great talking point but the numbers just don't justify the animosity.

The concept of delegate pay is not abolished with 2.0.

It's about increasing the "quality control" and raising the bar for delegate / worker proposal standards (being as explicit as possible). See also: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18362.msg235704.html#msg235704

A little bit more dilution might not be that relevant (it can have a negative symbolic effect if liquidty is low and the delegate pay is sold right away) but the efficiency of the hiring process of DPOS is only as good as the public disocurse about the proposals. I saw low voting participation and zero discussion so I started the discussion.

[tbone]

Not only that, but delegate pay will only last another month, correct?  So what is the fuss really about?  Am I missing something here?

It seems to me that people make this a bigger monster than it is, simply because they hear the "dilution" word.

Bingo. It's a great talking point but the numbers just don't justify the animosity.

[Riverhead]

It seems to me that people make this a bigger monster than it is, simply because they hear the "dilution" word.

Bingo. It's a great talking point but the numbers just don't justify the animosity.

[BTSdac]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

1 delegate gets roughly 140k bts monthly. At today's market cap that works out to about $400

So about 30 paid delegates @ $400 per month is $12K monthly dilution.   
Have BitShareholders received at least $12K worth of value per month?

what you mean  "BitShareholders received $12K worth of value per month" ?

[BTSdac]

MineBitshares (5/7 (!) 100% delegates!)
I have added MineBitshares to my personal unvoting list. Why? Because it has 5 (!!) 100% delegates  in the Top 101 and 2 more 100% percent delegates at 102 and 104. I think Jonathan is a good guy with many talents but the total of 7 100% delegates we are talking about here is A LOT OF DILUTION for an unproven marketing effort! See

yes  I think so  ,
MinerBitshares  is a good thing for BTS system ,
but 7 delegates is too much , it would make BTS become 7/36=20% POW coin ,

[fuzzy]

IN THE END: If such a public discussion is not possible because one is afraid that the to be unvoted delegate may not like you anymore than that is negative for DPOS. DPOS can live without such an open public discussion too but a lot less effective.  Let's establish a culture of content focus instead of one of politics and advertisement, see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18196.0.html

 

Before anybody goes nuts over MineBitShares... I did mention a post coming today to talk about updates in the MineBitShares forum area. Pretty underhanded to fire off an attack like this without first seeing that....

...I had to loan out my own money to get things started. For the sake of getting the pool update delivered and not thinking people would post nutty uninformed posts like this, I did that...

Yeah.  We have some work to do.  I totally get that you disagree with delulo, but I don't think his post was underhanded or nutty.  I think responding in this way is a deterrent to honest discussion, and I think the first iteration of this thread showed that we can overcome voter apathy with such honest discussion.

[santaclause102]

*HUGHS* back my friend!
It was never my intention to shut down your project. I just want to understand it and have everything as explicit as possible.

I didn't recognize your post that you would make an update. I was just scanning your post in the old thread for an answer to my question. I posted it after I had not seen any.
By saying it was underhanded you interpret my intentions which you can't know. I can just say what I said above.

With that said I think there are questions unasnwered, see your new thread.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Before anybody goes nuts over MineBitShares... I did mention a post coming today to talk about updates in the MineBitShares forum area. Pretty underhanded to fire off an attack like this without first seeing that.

It's actually thanks to the recent delegates getting voted in that I decided to get programming work underway. What I had saved up from our delegates that last few months wasn't even enough for the initial deposit to get started with our market cap. I had to loan out my own money to get things started. For the sake of getting the pool update delivered and not thinking people would post nutty uninformed posts like this, I did that. We lose the funding for those delegates now.. you just cut off our updates and growth at the knees when we could have had a nice shiny new competitive pool by next month. It took over 500,000 BTS just to get the additional programming work STARTED.. it takes more than 3 months of saving up every single BTS of a 100% delegate to amount to that... and we are still paying out bonuses.

I would prefer not to be put further into debt and have the project not move forward because of one rant.

Also regarding Chronos... I am pretty sure people were more in agreement to see that continue to go towards core dev.

dev.sidhujag has been down for weeks now.. all indications are he has Gensoed and should be voted down.

I can feel your pain since you seem to have fronted some of your own money here. I am just trying to get the maximum transparency out of it. And I guess that is in the interest of everyone.
I hope we can keep up an open and rational discussion so the public and shareholders can see where their funds are put. Attacking any efforts to increase transparency and public discussion is against the public hiring process inherent to DPOS.

"underhanded"... I did not just post this without asking questions, see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16340.msg232666.html#msg232666

But I don't want to talk about any personal thing or insulations

On the content:
I read your new proposal. The crucial question is whether the final revenue of this "business" (referral commissions from the wallet provider that bitshares-mining will become) will go to those that finance it's development (bts holders through delegate pay) or to you. See my full post here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.msg233360.html#msg233360

Again, this is not personal. If you we don't manage to make these kinds of discussion impersonal DPOS loses.

This discussion is actually continuing in our UPDATE thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.msg233450.html#msg233450

Also.. it was underhanded. You started this thread literally just over 3 hours after I had posted in the MineBitShares forum about an update coming the very next day. I would have posted it that same night, but I had fought with the Bitshares client for over 8 hours that night to the point I couldn't even get miner payouts out that night : https://twitter.com/minebitshares/status/638584033400758272 .. So I made due with telling everyone update was coming the next day... imagine my surprise when I woke up to your attack.

Our Post: on: September 01, 2015, 05:51:57 AM » https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18246.msg233215.html#msg233215
Your Post: on: September 01, 2015, 09:04:05 AM » https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18249.msg233236.html#msg233236

When I got the update out: September 01, 2015, 04:00:06 PM » https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.msg233301.html#msg233301

In other words you launched this shortly after I went to sleep. That is underhanded. That's not rational transparency as you are peddling it. It's just what I said it is. Don't take it personally. I just want everyone to have a transparent discussion like you said. I can understand now why you don't want to talk about that after justify it with redirects to old links. Now that it's settled though and everyone can see what is what we can move on. *HUGS*

If you really want this project to shutdown as you are reasoning it should, I am looking forward to your numbers that show your option to be superior... but please lets move it to our thread where everyone can see.

[santaclause102]

Before anybody goes nuts over MineBitShares... I did mention a post coming today to talk about updates in the MineBitShares forum area. Pretty underhanded to fire off an attack like this without first seeing that.

It's actually thanks to the recent delegates getting voted in that I decided to get programming work underway. What I had saved up from our delegates that last few months wasn't even enough for the initial deposit to get started with our market cap. I had to loan out my own money to get things started. For the sake of getting the pool update delivered and not thinking people would post nutty uninformed posts like this, I did that. We lose the funding for those delegates now.. you just cut off our updates and growth at the knees when we could have had a nice shiny new competitive pool by next month. It took over 500,000 BTS just to get the additional programming work STARTED.. it takes more than 3 months of saving up every single BTS of a 100% delegate to amount to that... and we are still paying out bonuses.

I would prefer not to be put further into debt and have the project not move forward because of one rant.

Also regarding Chronos... I am pretty sure people were more in agreement to see that continue to go towards core dev.

dev.sidhujag has been down for weeks now.. all indications are he has Gensoed and should be voted down.

I can feel your pain since you seem to have fronted some of your own money here. I am just trying to get the maximum transparency out of it. And I guess that is in the interest of everyone.
I hope we can keep up an open and rational discussion so the public and shareholders can see where their funds are put. Attacking any efforts to increase transparency and public discussion is against the public hiring process inherent to DPOS.

"underhanded"... I did not just post this without asking questions, see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16340.msg232666.html#msg232666

But I don't want to talk about any personal thing or insulations

On the content:
I read your new proposal. The crucial question is whether the final revenue of this "business" (referral commissions from the wallet provider that bitshares-mining will become) will go to those that finance it's development (bts holders through delegate pay) or to you. See my full post here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.msg233360.html#msg233360

Again, this is not personal. If you we don't manage to make these kinds of discussion impersonal DPOS loses.

[Stan]

So about 30 paid delegates @ $400 per month is $12K monthly dilution.   
Have BitShareholders received at least $12K worth of value per month?

How would you propose we measure that shareholder value Stan?

Value is in the eye of the beholder.  I, myself, have little use for a pound of caviar (or chocolate vegemite). 
So each shareholder should ask that question for herself.

[Thom]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

You're going to sell your investment because someone wasn't nice to you on a forum?  And why the hell are you investing in something you don't understand?

That is a most excellent reply. I find it interesting that a "trader" would make such a statement. Perhaps he should call himself a "speculator" instead. Regardless, I don't care much for the type, who seem to be more into hype than real substance or value. Whatever makes a profit. I find such an attitude that disregards underlying value and prioritizes profit above all to be a big factor in the financial corruption we see so prevalent in the financial world today.

There is nothing wrong with making a profit, so long as doing so doesn't enable aggression and violation of the NAP. So companies like Haliburton and their ilk who suck off the state tit sicken me.

Investment requires risk. Becoming a good investor means learning how to evaluate risk, which requires a basic level of understanding of the nature of the thing being invested in. Speculators want to reduce that effort to as close to zero as they can, but there is no free lunch.

[Thom]

So about 30 paid delegates @ $400 per month is $12K monthly dilution.   
Have BitShareholders received at least $12K worth of value per month?

How would you propose we measure that shareholder value Stan?

The question is valid, but I'd be willing to bet many would say their value is declining with the marketcap. For the record I'm not one of them. I'm in it for the long haul, for the vision. Only when I believe the vision is abandoned or there is no hope in achieving it will I say bye bye.

[Ander]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

A paid delegate at max pay for a full year is 1.56M BTS. 
If you are referring to bunkermining wanting 7 paid delegates, they want this to fun the mining pool bonus and to pay coders for development work to build the mining pool.  Only 4 of them are elected currently, and for most of the time it has been 1-2. 


I agree that it would be nice if there were better ways to communicate information to new people, but BTS is complicated, and there are a lot of concepts to try and understand. 


Regarding 'people here being toxic':  Its a bear market, many people are upset.  Thats probably the main reason.  Also a few people actively attempt to be toxic to try to get the price down, for whatever reason.  But there are also plenty of positive people trying to build something and help people.

[Stan]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

1 delegate gets roughly 140k bts monthly. At today's market cap that works out to about $400

So about 30 paid delegates @ $400 per month is $12K monthly dilution.   
Have BitShareholders received at least $12K worth of value per month?

[lil_jay890]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

You're going to sell your investment because someone wasn't nice to you on a forum?  And why the hell are you investing in something you don't understand?

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

1 delegate gets roughly 140k bts monthly. At today's market cap that works out to about $400

[Frodo]

We are still at 36 100% delegates in the 101.  Would be good to get this down a bit more, in some way. 

But more importantly, when 2.0 comes, I feel we should cut down on the inflation rate.  Pay for core dev upgrade proposals and a couple other things, and try to limit dilution as much as we can.

Is dilution that important? I mean I know the less the better so we're profitable but isn't our inflation rate less than bitcoin's? I don't know exact numbers but from what I remember, comparing the the current supply it wasn't that much. It seems to me that people make this a bigger monster than it is, simply because they hear the "dilution" word.

I agree. Currently inflation is still well under 2.5 % per year. And I am quite happy with that compared to the overall performance of delegates.

That being said I do agree that it is important to establish certain minimum requirements for 100% delegates though.

The issue with 7 delegates reminds me of what BM said last hangout. You get more work done by giving one person $100k than by giving 1000 people $100. And I think the bunker mining project is a good candidate for bringing in new users and providing the bitUSD market with additional liquidity. If it is perceived as necessary (although I don't) maybe we should vote out other "marketing/media" delegates instead.

[puppies]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

That 10M bts would be for 7 delegate spots.  Still a lot of bts. Bts2.0 will remove any justification for duplicate block producers, as they will be focused purely on securing the network.  Voting will also become much easier, and the wallet is much more usable.  We definitely have lots of issues with the current client.  The devs are aware, and are working on fixing.  I think most form regulars are pretty helpful, snarky responses aside.  I'd hate to see you go, we need all the users we can get.  Good luck either way though.

[Akado]

We are still at 36 100% delegates in the 101.  Would be good to get this down a bit more, in some way. 

But more importantly, when 2.0 comes, I feel we should cut down on the inflation rate.  Pay for core dev upgrade proposals and a couple other things, and try to limit dilution as much as we can.

Is dilution that important? I mean I know the less the better so we're profitable but isn't our inflation rate less than bitcoin's? I don't know exact numbers but from what I remember, comparing the the current supply it wasn't that much. It seems to me that people make this a bigger monster than it is, simply because they hear the "dilution" word.

[godzirra]

I didn't want to hijack delulo's thread but I have to say this. I'm not a crypto person. I'm a equities and commodities trader. I have accumulated millions of Bts over time but have never voted. Part of the reason why is because Bts is not easy for me to understand. It's not my world. I do listen to Beyond Bitcoin and the discussion there is always informative and professional. And I always leave feeling quite inspired. But searching for basic information here on the forum is a pain. And the people here are toxic. I actually never realized that some delegates were receiving 10 million Bts per annum. That's a ton of dilution. As a matter of fact that's more than I have. Is that a simple calculation? Yes. But instead of bitching about it you should be asking yourselves why is it that forum members don't know this basic info and how it can be more readily available and easy to access. My mistake for thinking that this forum was designed to answer questions.

This thread is about voter apathy right? To be honest I'm pretty sick and tired of this place. When the price recovers a bit I'll be selling.

[Ander]

If you guys want lots of bunkermining delegates, why dont we at least vote out other 100%s to get them in, starting I think with delgates that have left and are redicrecting funds, like Chronos.   Also it seems sidhujag isnt updating anymore.

We have a scarcity of running and updated 3% delegates that are near the top 101 to vote in to reduce dilution, so I would keep votes for those that are there, such as the minebitshares 3% delegates.  There are also a few near the top 101 that could be supported, just make sure youre voting for delegates with version 0.9.2.

[Ander]

We are still at 36 100% delegates in the 101.  Would be good to get this down a bit more, in some way. 

But more importantly, when 2.0 comes, I feel we should cut down on the inflation rate.  Pay for core dev upgrade proposals and a couple other things, and try to limit dilution as much as we can. 

[puppies]

IN THE END: If such a public discussion is not possible because one is afraid that the to be unvoted delegate may not like you anymore than that is negative for DPOS. DPOS can live without such an open public discussion too but a lot less effective.  Let's establish a culture of content focus instead of one of politics and advertisement, see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18196.0.html

Before anybody goes nuts over MineBitShares... I did mention a post coming today to talk about updates in the MineBitShares forum area. Pretty underhanded to fire off an attack like this without first seeing that....

...I had to loan out my own money to get things started. For the sake of getting the pool update delivered and not thinking people would post nutty uninformed posts like this, I did that...

Yeah.  We have some work to do.  I totally get that you disagree with delulo, but I don't think his post was underhanded or nutty.  I think responding in this way is a deterrent to honest discussion, and I think the first iteration of this thread showed that we can overcome voter apathy with such honest discussion.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Big Update On MineBitShares / BunkerMining!

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.0.html

[Thom]

This kind of asinine behavior is why people don't care to participate here. Just so you guys know.

Should I do more work for you to show that this is one of, if not the most, active forum/community in crypto?

I kindof agree with you lil_jay890, but there is also this thing called courtesy. I too get annoyed sometimes by people that want to always take the easy way out rather than fire a few synapses to think for themselves.

Sometimes I wonder how people manage to survive that are so adverse to thinking.

[Tuck Fheman]

Should I do more work for you to show that this is one of, if not the most, active forum/community in crypto?

Well there is this thing called math that can be used to figure that out...
 

[lil_jay890]

This kind of asinine behavior is why people don't care to participate here. Just so you guys know.

Should I do more work for you to show that this is one of, if not the most, active forum/community in crypto?

[lil_jay890]

Your welcome for doing the 5 seconds of work that you had to ask someone else to figure out for you.

[lil_jay890]

7 Delegates! How much bts is that?

Well there is this thing called math that can be used to figure that out...

24hrs in a day
3600 seconds in an hour
10 second block times
101 delegates
50 bts per block
7 minebts delegates

Approx 30,000 bts per day

[godzirra]

7 Delegates! How much bts is that?

[lil_jay890]

Before anybody goes nuts over MineBitShares... I did mention a post coming today to talk about updates in the MineBitShares forum area. Pretty underhanded to fire off an attack like this without first seeing that.

It's actually thanks to the recent delegates getting voted in that I decided to get programming work underway. What I had saved up from our delegates that last few months wasn't even enough for the initial deposit to get started with our market cap. I had to loan out my own money to get things started. For the sake of getting the pool update delivered and not thinking people would post nutty uninformed posts like this, I did that. We lose the funding for those delegates now.. you just cut off our updates and growth at the knees when we could have had a nice shiny new competitive pool by next month. It took over 500,000 BTS just to get the additional programming work STARTED.. it takes more than 3 months of saving up every single BTS of a 100% delegate to amount to that... and we are still paying out bonuses.

I would prefer not to be put further into debt and have the project not move forward because of one rant.

Also regarding Chronos... I am pretty sure people were more in agreement to see that continue to go towards core dev.

dev.sidhujag has been down for weeks now.. all indications are he has Gensoed and should be voted down.

I believe we should keep all the minebitshares delegates in place or even vote the last 2 in.  We removed plenty of aimless 100% delegates and now have put funds toward a solid and well planned project.  I think the dilution is about the same and hopefully we see a lot more volume in bitassets.

Good job and good luck DSN!

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Before anybody goes nuts over MineBitShares... I did mention a post coming today to talk about updates in the MineBitShares forum area. Pretty underhanded to fire off an attack like this without first seeing that.

It's actually thanks to the recent delegates getting voted in that I decided to get programming work underway. What I had saved up from our delegates that last few months wasn't even enough for the initial deposit to get started with our market cap. I had to loan out my own money to get things started. For the sake of getting the pool update delivered and not thinking people would post nutty uninformed posts like this, I did that. We lose the funding for those delegates now.. you just cut off our updates and growth at the knees when we could have had a nice shiny new competitive pool by next month. It took over 500,000 BTS just to get the additional programming work STARTED.. it takes more than 3 months of saving up every single BTS of a 100% delegate to amount to that... and we are still paying out bonuses.

I would prefer not to be put further into debt and have the project not move forward because of one rant.

Also regarding Chronos... I am pretty sure people were more in agreement to see that continue to go towards core dev.

dev.sidhujag has been down for weeks now.. all indications are he has Gensoed and should be voted down.

[santaclause102]

Here are my personal unvoting favorites (all 100% delegates):

Aside from https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18151.msg232045.html#msg232045

MineBitshares (5/7 (!) 100% delegates!)
I have added MineBitshares to my personal unvoting list. Why? Because it has 5 (!!) 100% delegates  in the Top 101 and 2 more 100% percent delegates at 102 and 104. I think Jonathan is a good guy with many talents but the total of 7 100% delegates we are talking about here is A LOT OF DILUTION for an unproven marketing effort! See https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16340.msg232666.html#msg232666 
Note that I asked questions first and tried to get an OBJECTIVE measure for effectiveness of this effort. The rationale is: If we scale this up from 2 to 7 minebitshares delegates there has to be OBJECTIVE proof from the 2 minebitshares delegates that were in the top 101 for many month now that this is cost effective (see the post above)

chronos.payroll.lafona has steppeddown: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16536.msg233081.html#msg233081


I am a little divided on sollywood.sollars-com. I think he is doing a great job with his videos! But his effort is a private venture and is not providing core infrastructure for Bitshares. I think it is justnot something for a delegate / even less for a worker in the future. See his proposal https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13900.0

There are no update from dev.sidhujag. I also value his efforts in the past A LOT. He just seems to not be developing actively anymore, see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,12027.45.html

media.bitscape is still at 100, see the original post: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18151.msg232045.html#msg232045


I would encourage you to do the same and be critical of people's claims and their fancy advertisement and long talking, not necessarily because there would be some evil intent but just because the delegate concept might not make economic sense / may not be profitable for you as a BTS holder and fancy, long winded and frequent advertisement may be used to cover this.

IN THE END: If such a public discussion is not possible because one is afraid that the to be unvoted delegate may not like you anymore than that is negative for DPOS. DPOS can live without such an open public discussion too but a lot less effective.  Let's establish a culture of content focus instead of one of politics and advertisement, see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18196.0.html