Author Topic: BitShares X Status Update  (Read 209367 times)

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Offline toast

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How about a prediction market for margin,
I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)

are these changes that can be tweaked as bitshares evolves, like bitcoin fees are tweaked, or are they more or less permanent to the XT chain?

These are hard to tweak because they require all nodes to agree / validate the transactions.    Voting is not an option and some of these parameters would have very thin prediction markets (subject to manipulation) if we attempted to set them that way.   

I suppose there is a way for a trusted party to send a transaction to change a parameter within a preset range.  This party would dramatically effect the value of the DAC with every change.    Finding a good solution to 'changing the rules after launch' is very hard... doing a snapshot and fork may be the best way to propose changes that gives everyone an opportunity to voluntarily switch to the new chain.   

What if you were to set these variables (margin, trading limit and minimum market depth) as you have announced but use prediction markets for each of these variable that would determine that variable's value. The consensus from each prediction market would not override the original values until each market met all of the original requirements before trade. In this way the DAC becomes even more autonomous. I don't know how hard this is to code, but I feel that it is necessary in the evolution of DAC's.


discuss it:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3104.0
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

clout

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How about a prediction market for margin,
I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)

are these changes that can be tweaked as bitshares evolves, like bitcoin fees are tweaked, or are they more or less permanent to the XT chain?

These are hard to tweak because they require all nodes to agree / validate the transactions.    Voting is not an option and some of these parameters would have very thin prediction markets (subject to manipulation) if we attempted to set them that way.   

I suppose there is a way for a trusted party to send a transaction to change a parameter within a preset range.  This party would dramatically effect the value of the DAC with every change.    Finding a good solution to 'changing the rules after launch' is very hard... doing a snapshot and fork may be the best way to propose changes that gives everyone an opportunity to voluntarily switch to the new chain.   

What if you were to set these variables (margin, trading limit and minimum market depth) as you have announced but use prediction markets for each of these variable that would determine that variable's value. The consensus from each prediction market would not override the original values until each market met all of the original requirements before trade. In this way the DAC becomes even more autonomous. I don't know how hard this is to code, but I feel that it is necessary in the evolution of DAC's.

Offline toast

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Otherwise known as... proof of stake!
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bitcoinerS

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I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)

are these changes that can be tweaked as bitshares evolves, like bitcoin fees are tweaked, or are they more or less permanent to the XT chain?

...  Voting is not an option ...

How about a Proof of Stake based voting mechanism for major changes to blockchain rules?
>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline bytemaster

I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)

are these changes that can be tweaked as bitshares evolves, like bitcoin fees are tweaked, or are they more or less permanent to the XT chain?

These are hard to tweak because they require all nodes to agree / validate the transactions.    Voting is not an option and some of these parameters would have very thin prediction markets (subject to manipulation) if we attempted to set them that way.   

I suppose there is a way for a trusted party to send a transaction to change a parameter within a preset range.  This party would dramatically effect the value of the DAC with every change.    Finding a good solution to 'changing the rules after launch' is very hard... doing a snapshot and fork may be the best way to propose changes that gives everyone an opportunity to voluntarily switch to the new chain.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline toast

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The best consensus building mechanism is to just release multiple chains and let people buy what they want
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline Brent.Allsop

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are these changes that can be tweaked as bitshares evolves, like bitcoin fees are tweaked, or are they more or less permanent to the XT chain?


How to make changes, and what changes to allow, THAT is the critically important question.  Any DAC that can more intelligently make drastic rapid changes like this will always blow away all dumb hard to change competitors.

The Bitcoin foundation has quite a laborious, slow and involved process to propose, vet, and get these kinds of changes accepted into the network.  And even with all that, there is a chance that some miners will not accept any particular updates/changes, possibly resulting in a forked block chain.  Obviously, such would be devastating to any community using the coin.

That is why having the ability to build and measure how much consensus you have is so critically important.  Getting a network of machines to achieve a consensus on what blocks to accept is one thing, getting all the people rapidly on board and educated (i.e. amplifying the wisdom of the crowd) for dramatic intelligent changes to how the network consensus is achieved, is an entirely different and far more important issue.

Any smart DAC, that can rapidly measure and build consensus amongst the crowd of coin holders and miners, way more effectively and intelligent than the Bitcoin Foundation will always blow away any DAC that is fixed, or very difficult to change/improve, like Bitcoin.

The consensus building system at Canonizer.com is all about exactly that.  Amplifying and educating the wisdom of the crowd, building and rigorously measuring for the amount of consensus there or isn't, what is required to get to the level of consensus required, as rapidly as possible, all in a leaderless way bottom up way, and so on.  Our goal is to make Canon Coin just such a 'smart' currency, able to change and adapt far more rapidly than any other currency, in a leaderless amplification of the wisdom of the crowd way.


Offline maqifrnswa

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I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)

are these changes that can be tweaked as bitshares evolves, like bitcoin fees are tweaked, or are they more or less permanent to the XT chain?
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline alt

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I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)
I agree you but not 1)
I think 10x is not necessary, 2x is fine.
the key point is  give a sell order for bit asset instead of buy directory from market.

Offline bytemaster

I have spent the past few days thinking about exploits and designing solutions to them.  This has required some changes to the code that I am working on to do the following:

1) Increase initial margin to 10x rather than 2x to prevent manipulation by triggering short squeezes.  This will reduce leverage in the system and make it very unlikely for a short position to be blown out by a short squeeze.
2) Track market depth and limit trading to a percent of the market depth every block.  This will prevent whales from pushing the price around too much.   
3) Require minimal market depth before the first trade can occur.
4) Figure out how to test all of this :)

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline HackFisher

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Actualy bts_server consumes all available memory on my linux machine. So far ~ 8GB and increasing. Is this normal or memory leak?

not sure, i think it may due to this:
https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/BitShares/issues/52
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Looks like a leak


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Offline denkhaus

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Actualy bts_server consumes all available memory on my linux machine. So far ~ 8GB and increasing. Is this normal or memory leak?

Offline jae208

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Wait until BitUSD is listed on coinmarketcap...

Think it'll make it to the top 10?
http://bitsharestutorials.com A work in progress
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Offline bytemaster

Today I fixed many bugs associated with importing bitcoin wallets and added additional RPC calls to import wallets and get price history.
I also filmed my first video blog which will be edited and released soon addressing our future DACs and the upcoming snapshot. 


For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.