Author Topic: BitShares X Status Update  (Read 173013 times)

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Offline Stan

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The biggest problem right now is the 28 Feb snapshot. As we get farther away from the date, it keeps looking worse (and is generating a lot of heartache amongst investors) and creating more pressure on Dan and co.
Yep, it really annoys me.

Having value trap in a black hole during an undetermined period of time was not part of the deal. Having value stuck is reeeeally annoying, especially in the cryptospace where things move very fast. If I didn't mind having my value be illiquid I would have buy more AGS, my portfolio was skewed toward PTS for a reason.

Is having your AGS being illiquid for 2-3 months really the end of the world? You know your returns are going to be huge once the product is released. The only thing Im annoyed about is that I didnt donate more.

What really annoys me is that we don't have 100 DACs deployed already occupying the top 100 slots at coinmarketcap.com.

It also annoys me that we don't have our own electric car and space launch companies and our own decentralized sovereign nation somewhere in international waters, perhaps conveniently located on the floor of the Pacific Ocean.

Having all that value trapped in bytemaster's head and only a tiny low-bandwidth output port:  The BitShares Industry.

Then there's that whole "change the world" agenda.   

Like I used to ask my parents from the back of the car... "Are we there yet?"
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline speedy

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The biggest problem right now is the 28 Feb snapshot. As we get farther away from the date, it keeps looking worse (and is generating a lot of heartache amongst investors) and creating more pressure on Dan and co.
Yep, it really annoys me.

Having value trap in a black hole during an undetermined period of time was not part of the deal. Having value stuck is reeeeally annoying, especially in the cryptospace where things move very fast. If I didn't mind having my value be illiquid I would have buy more AGS, my portfolio was skewed toward PTS for a reason.

Is having your AGS being illiquid for 2-3 months really the end of the world? You know your returns are going to be huge once the product is released. The only thing Im annoyed about is that I didnt donate more.

Offline Stan

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Social contract says 10%. Folks donating to AGS after the Fe. 28 snapshot also see the potential of other DACs. The person who promised us something is on track to deliver more than promised over the next few months. I, for one, will continue donating as I want shares in those new DACs, too. Call me stupid, but Bitshares Me, Music, DNS, Insurance, Lotto, etc.  look freakin awesome.

Sorry I was under the impression that Bitshares Me, Music, DNS, Insurance, Lotto will all honor AGS/PTS 50/50. And after these ones the social contract says at least 10%. Isn't that the case?

It is up to each developer to determine how their shares are distributed.  They are compliant with the Social Consensus if they honor both PTS and AGS with 10%.  After that, it depends on their business and marketing models.  In general the strategy is to maximize the viability of their DAC by attracting supporters, customers, donations, and investment through wise decisions about how best to distribute their shares.

Most of the strategies discussed in this forum amount to "targeted air-drops" to specific constituency groups a developer wants to attract.  In rare cases, air dropped shares are distributed to the General Population.  This usually results is most people quickly selling their shares - depressing the price - and hence has been found to be not in the developer's best interest.  PTS and AGS seek to represent groups that developers benefit from attracting.  The remaining 80% is free to be used by developers to attract still more specialized groups or to increase the intensity of support they get from the most loyal and informed DAC support group in the world: PTS and AGS holders.
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Offline toast

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No, only X is definitely 50/50. DNS will drop on namecoin for example

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline mf-tzo

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Social contract says 10%. Folks donating to AGS after the Fe. 28 snapshot also see the potential of other DACs. The person who promised us something is on track to deliver more than promised over the next few months. I, for one, will continue donating as I want shares in those new DACs, too. Call me stupid, but Bitshares Me, Music, DNS, Insurance, Lotto, etc.  look freakin awesome.

Sorry I was under the impression that Bitshares Me, Music, DNS, Insurance, Lotto will all honor AGS/PTS 50/50. And after these ones the social contract says at least 10%. Isn't that the case?


Offline jwiz168

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The February 28th snapshot is cast in concrete.

This concerns me as I've broken concrete with my bare hands. :)

 
This is fiber-reinforced concrete coated with stainless steel and wrapped in titanium.

+5%
fully secured crypto-equity.  8)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 12:49:40 am by jwiz168 »

Offline unimercio

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 –the after Feb 28th AGS are late coming diluters of the founding AGSers share; those late comers are also more stupid ones - as they supported someone after this person promised them something and while being very late, instead of trying to deliver on his promises, went to preach his other ideas, improving the concept of his non-existing product
[/i] here, there is no need donations to be stopped. Just make clear to them donors they can continue donating, but they will not be honored in any future DAC’s with anything more than 1%... as this is the social consensus…

Social contract says 10%. Folks donating to AGS after the Fe. 28 snapshot also see the potential of other DACs. The person who promised us something is on track to deliver more than promised over the next few months. I, for one, will continue donating as I want shares in those new DACs, too. Call me stupid, but Bitshares Me, Music, DNS, Insurance, Lotto, etc.  look freakin awesome.
  +5%
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Offline BldSwtTrs

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The biggest problem right now is the 28 Feb snapshot. As we get farther away from the date, it keeps looking worse (and is generating a lot of heartache amongst investors) and creating more pressure on Dan and co.
Yep, it really annoys me.

Having value trap in a black hole during an undetermined period of time was not part of the deal. Having value stuck is reeeeally annoying, especially in the cryptospace where things move very fast. If I didn't mind having my value be illiquid I would have buy more AGS, my portfolio was skewed toward PTS for a reason.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:50:35 pm by BldSwtTrs »

Offline MrJeans

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The February 28th snapshot is cast in concrete.

This concerns me as I've broken concrete with my bare hands. :)

This is fiber-reinforced concrete coated with stainless steel and wrapped in titanium.
…and its studded with kryptonite

Offline Stan

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The February 28th snapshot is cast in concrete.

This concerns me as I've broken concrete with my bare hands. :)

You haven't seen the titanium rebar with 800ksi Nycon-PVA-RF-4000 High Performance Macro Fiber reinforcement we added to the mix:

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bytemaster



The February 28th snapshot is cast in concrete.

This concerns me as I've broken concrete with my bare hands. :)

This is fiber-reinforced concrete coated with stainless steel and wrapped in titanium. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 06:37:34 pm by Stan »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline JakeThePanda

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The February 28th snapshot is cast in concrete.

This concerns me as I've broken concrete with my bare hands. :)

Offline donkeypong

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 –the after Feb 28th AGS are late coming diluters of the founding AGSers share; those late comers are also more stupid ones - as they supported someone after this person promised them something and while being very late, instead of trying to deliver on his promises, went to preach his other ideas, improving the concept of his non-existing product
[/i] here, there is no need donations to be stopped. Just make clear to them donors they can continue donating, but they will not be honored in any future DAC’s with anything more than 1%... as this is the social consensus…

Social contract says 10%. Folks donating to AGS after the Fe. 28 snapshot also see the potential of other DACs. The person who promised us something is on track to deliver more than promised over the next few months. I, for one, will continue donating as I want shares in those new DACs, too. Call me stupid, but Bitshares Me, Music, DNS, Insurance, Lotto, etc.  look freakin awesome.

Offline tonyk

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The biggest problem right now is the 28 Feb snapshot. As we get farther away from the date, it keeps looking worse (and is generating a lot of heartache amongst investors) and creating more pressure on Dan and co.

The logical order of releases would have been Test DPOS -> Real DPOS Coin -> BTS Me -> BTS X. I have a suggestion (will probably be hated by most) which might get around this.

For starters, PTS mining and AGS donation has to be stopped and all these along with the Feb 28th snapshot merged in a single coin of 4m supply (lets call it Tokens) and the social consensus would state that at least 20% of any DAC should honour these Tokens (instead of 10% each for PTS and AGS). Also, the Feb 28 snapshot will NOT be used for BTS X.

So, the distribution will be
1> Some 1.8m for PTS will become 1.8m Tokens
2> Roughly 1.1m AGS will become 1.1m Tokens
3> The remaining 1.1m can be distributed amongst Feb 28 snapshot and/or award Tokens directly to I3 which will be used only as payments/bounties (and can't be sold directly by I3).

The ratios can be adjusted accordingly to try and even out the playing field amongst the various types of investors. In this scheme, I think all the sets are being accommodated.
1> PTS holders will still get the same portion.
2> Ditto for AGS but as an added bonus they are liquid (BM is trying to get some form of BTS XT out quickly so that those AGSers can have some form of liquid asset).
3> PTS and AGSers before Feb 28th, who got in at a higher price due to the promise of BTS X will be partly compensated by getting awarded extra tokens. If you think that is not enough, that snapshot may also be used to award BTS Me, which is expected to be the first DAC with some features.

In doing so, initially BM releases a test version to try out DPOS. If it works well, the conversion into Tokens happen, which will mean it will be tested on a real coin listed on exchanges and having a good market cap. At this point, a mining pool which awards Tokens can also be set up. Remember, Tokens at this point will be the first DPOS coin, and with the rage about PoS these days, having a supposedly superior (we have to see how it works in practice), we should get a lot of buzz.

Then, BTS Me with some functionality (and maybe honouring Feb 28th snapshot) gets released, and after that every DAC honours Tokens directly - no more having families of DACs with with its own ProtoDACs to provide distribution and all. This simplifies matters to a large extent as you know how may of these Tokens you have and so what percentage you will get - no more trying to calculate separately for PTS, AGS or even BTS XT (for future BTS Xs). Of course, future DAC creators may award differently, like 20% for Tokens and, say, 10% for Bitshares Me, but that is his own choice.

Even if you guys think I am not bonkers, still there is room to adjust the numbers/ratios to even it out amongst the various investors. I just like the idea of having a simple, elegant system to award me the DACs (instead of the complicated mess we have now). The biggest benefit, IMO, is that the infamous Feb 28 snapshot monkey is off the back.

*goes back to smoking that weird plant thingy*

‘still there is room to adjust the numbers/ratios to even it out amongst the various investors. I just like the idea of having a simple, elegant system’

Try suggesting honoring the pre 28th AGS with at least 3:1 ratio, or better, to the other AGS in future DAC’s.
Reasons?
– some of the early investors paid 10X compared to investors now (see currencydebt post above)
–others of them did not have the benefit of ‘... a longer time horizon that would have given them the wisdom to spread out their own investments and thus maximize the AGS per PTS / BTC...’, even though this spreading would have resulted in smaller share for them(*1) (see bytemasters post above)

 –the after Feb 28th AGS are late coming diluters of the founding AGSers share; those late comers are also more stupid ones - as they supported someone after this person promised them something and while being very late, instead of trying to deliver on his promises, went to preach his other ideas, improving the concept of his non-existing product and god knows what else. But do not think he moved the delivery day ahead of the possible/reasonable date… no,no ..it is a coincidence that he bunched the donations in a short period and having those funds secured (and not depending on his behavior afterwards), went on doing what he really wanted to do in the first place.

(*1) If you what to check that this is the case - compare what percentage of BTS one with say 100,000 PTS would have if he spread its donation equally from Jan1 to Feb 28 and compare this to what percentage he will get if he spreads same 100K PTS from Jan1 to Today – the difference is about 50% more in the first scenario (and this is without including the reasonable expectation that the donations would have been higher after 28th if such donations gave a chance to participate in the snapshot)


‘…AGS donation has to be stopped…’ here, there is no need donations to be stopped. Just make clear to them donors they can continue donating, but they will not be honored in any future DAC’s with anything more than 1%... as this is the social consensus…

Now I expect to have a good time in the following weeks in a better place with no internet connection …I just hope when I check back this project to be something more than ‘improved’ product existing mainly in somebody’s head…

Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline unimercio

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The February 28th snapshot is cast in concrete.
+5%  +5% +5% +5% +5%
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