Author Topic: BitShares X Status Update  (Read 264095 times)

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Offline jwiz168

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This is a monumental step towards making BTS liquid. Blockchain will be tested in real-time scenario. Cross our fingers and let it be bug-free.  8)

Offline bytemaster

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Offline bytemaster

We are testing now and have working transfers.  Working toward your goal of being liquid ASAP.


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+5%
Happy to hear that.
Only slightly concerned, it was our goal but somehow not yours.

Well, it has been our goal as well. 
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline tonyk

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We are testing now and have working transfers.  Working toward your goal of being liquid ASAP.


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+5%
Happy to hear that.
Only slightly concerned, it was our goal but somehow not yours.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline cass

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We are testing now and have working transfers.  Working toward your goal of being liquid ASAP.
Great! :)

 +5% +5%
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Offline BldSwtTrs

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We are testing now and have working transfers.  Working toward your goal of being liquid ASAP.
Great! :)

Offline Agent86

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They should have made this liquid even if it is on a some centralized website in the short term. Or they could have made it piggy back on another currency for the POW. (Make each block of BTS be proof of work using hash of another crypto blocks hash so in effect it can not be gamed) do this so people can exchange BTSX until the right algorithm is ready.

It would have been a bad decision to release something crappy just for the purpose of making it liquid.  It just would have wasted a bunch of time and delayed the ultimate goals of what they are doing.  No one would have bought XT shares that were hosted on an I3 server...
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 06:52:13 pm by Agent86 »

Offline bitmeat

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I would have sold "some" at $30 and would have not kicked myself :)


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sumantso

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The point was since in my scheme, before 28 Feb'ers are getting screwed on BTS XT (they will be getting less than 50% of the original amount), can we find a way to compensate them? (that would include me too, btw).

This isn't happening. Don't use active tense or it could case FUD.

I mentioned 'my scheme', and clearly I am not an I3 employee or even a big investor.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 04:48:56 pm by sumantso »

clout

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They should have made this liquid even if it is on a some centralized website in the short term. Or they could have made it piggy back on another currency for the POW. (Make each block of BTS be proof of work using hash of another crypto blocks hash so in effect it can not be gamed) do this so people can exchange BTSX until the right algorithm is ready. If it's a week or two more that's fine but the lack of contingency plan is really hurting their reputation. Plus they wouldn't have to rush the solution if they had a contingency plan.


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This is the inherent problem with many in the crypto space. So many ppl are speculating rather than investing. If you invest in a product and fully believe in its potential you understand that development and growth do not happen over night. It may not even happen in a year. One of the reason why I gravitated to I3 is because it is a company not a simply a crypto project like nxt. If you are fortunate to acquire stake in company during its early stages traditionally your equity will not really be liquid until the ipo. Crypto-equity changes this, but it is important to understand that we are in a transitional period in which the traditional paradigm has not fully changed. If you wanted to speculate and keep your stake liquid you could have done that with pts, but if you wanted to be a value investor you would certainly put your money in the ags. The whole point of pts/ags and the social consensus was to attract a community of loyal investors who rather than dumping the crypto-equity when the product was released would hold on to it in order to realize potentially higher returns in the long run. You can't really complain about how I3 has conducted themselves because they have been entirely transparent through out the whole process and have provided you with an investment vehicle that only serves to afford you the greatest return on your investment.

Lastly ppl keep talking about a contingency plan. Is that a euphemism for a sub par product? I didn't invest my money for that purpose. Please get out of this mentality of quick profits and understand that you stand to gain a lot more by investing for the long term. If you realized the potential of bitcoin when it first came out and sold during the early $30 bubble I imagine you would be kicking yourself in the head right now.

Offline toast

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The point was since in my scheme, before 28 Feb'ers are getting screwed on BTS XT (they will be getting less than 50% of the original amount), can we find a way to compensate them? (that would include me too, btw).

This isn't happening. Don't use active tense or it could case FUD.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

sumantso

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The biggest problem right now is the 28 Feb snapshot. As we get farther away from the date, it keeps looking worse (and is generating a lot of heartache amongst investors) and creating more pressure on Dan and co.

The logical order of releases would have been Test DPOS -> Real DPOS Coin -> BTS Me -> BTS X. I have a suggestion (will probably be hated by most) which might get around this.

For starters, PTS mining and AGS donation has to be stopped and all these along with the Feb 28th snapshot merged in a single coin of 4m supply (lets call it Tokens) and the social consensus would state that at least 20% of any DAC should honour these Tokens (instead of 10% each for PTS and AGS). Also, the Feb 28 snapshot will NOT be used for BTS X.

So, the distribution will be
1> Some 1.8m for PTS will become 1.8m Tokens
2> Roughly 1.1m AGS will become 1.1m Tokens
3> The remaining 1.1m can be distributed amongst Feb 28 snapshot and/or award Tokens directly to I3 which will be used only as payments/bounties (and can't be sold directly by I3).

The ratios can be adjusted accordingly to try and even out the playing field amongst the various types of investors. In this scheme, I think all the sets are being accommodated.
1> PTS holders will still get the same portion.
2> Ditto for AGS but as an added bonus they are liquid (BM is trying to get some form of BTS XT out quickly so that those AGSers can have some form of liquid asset).
3> PTS and AGSers before Feb 28th, who got in at a higher price due to the promise of BTS X will be partly compensated by getting awarded extra tokens. If you think that is not enough, that snapshot may also be used to award BTS Me, which is expected to be the first DAC with some features.

In doing so, initially BM releases a test version to try out DPOS. If it works well, the conversion into Tokens happen, which will mean it will be tested on a real coin listed on exchanges and having a good market cap. At this point, a mining pool which awards Tokens can also be set up. Remember, Tokens at this point will be the first DPOS coin, and with the rage about PoS these days, having a supposedly superior (we have to see how it works in practice), we should get a lot of buzz.

Then, BTS Me with some functionality (and maybe honouring Feb 28th snapshot) gets released, and after that every DAC honours Tokens directly - no more having families of DACs with with its own ProtoDACs to provide distribution and all. This simplifies matters to a large extent as you know how may of these Tokens you have and so what percentage you will get - no more trying to calculate separately for PTS, AGS or even BTS XT (for future BTS Xs). Of course, future DAC creators may award differently, like 20% for Tokens and, say, 10% for Bitshares Me, but that is his own choice.

Even if you guys think I am not bonkers, still there is room to adjust the numbers/ratios to even it out amongst the various investors. I just like the idea of having a simple, elegant system to award me the DACs (instead of the complicated mess we have now). The biggest benefit, IMO, is that the infamous Feb 28 snapshot monkey is off the back.

*goes back to smoking that weird plant thingy*

‘still there is room to adjust the numbers/ratios to even it out amongst the various investors. I just like the idea of having a simple, elegant system’

Try suggesting honoring the pre 28th AGS with at least 3:1 ratio, or better, to the other AGS in future DAC’s.
Reasons?
– some of the early investors paid 10X compared to investors now (see currencydebt post above)
–others of them did not have the benefit of ‘... a longer time horizon that would have given them the wisdom to spread out their own investments and thus maximize the AGS per PTS / BTC...’, even though this spreading would have resulted in smaller share for them(*1) (see bytemasters post above)

 –the after Feb 28th AGS are late coming diluters of the founding AGSers share; those late comers are also more stupid ones - as they supported someone after this person promised them something and while being very late, instead of trying to deliver on his promises, went to preach his other ideas, improving the concept of his non-existing product and god knows what else. But do not think he moved the delivery day ahead of the possible/reasonable date… no,no ..it is a coincidence that he bunched the donations in a short period and having those funds secured (and not depending on his behavior afterwards), went on doing what he really wanted to do in the first place.

(*1) If you what to check that this is the case - compare what percentage of BTS one with say 100,000 PTS would have if he spread its donation equally from Jan1 to Feb 28 and compare this to what percentage he will get if he spreads same 100K PTS from Jan1 to Today – the difference is about 50% more in the first scenario (and this is without including the reasonable expectation that the donations would have been higher after 28th if such donations gave a chance to participate in the snapshot)


‘…AGS donation has to be stopped…’ here, there is no need donations to be stopped. Just make clear to them donors they can continue donating, but they will not be honored in any future DAC’s with anything more than 1%... as this is the social consensus…

Now I expect to have a good time in the following weeks in a better place with no internet connection …I just hope when I check back this project to be something more than ‘improved’ product existing mainly in somebody’s head…

The point was since in my scheme, before 28 Feb'ers are getting screwed on BTS XT (they will be getting less than 50% of the original amount), can we find a way to compensate them? (that would include me too, btw).

My compensation package was
1> Share in all future DACs - insurance, music, lotto etc (since that snapshot is now part of the unified 'tokens').
2> BTS Me will get awarded with the Feb 28 snapshot. If that still doesn't sound enough then maybe the first BTS X chain, or the first 2, or the first 3, or DNS.

For all those who bought/donated after snapshot date, their stake in future DACs is reduced, but they also get a share in BTS X.

Why take the trouble? My main reasons were
1> Simplify the process. We will have a fixed number of the 'tokens' and we will know exactly how much % of each DAC we are getting (instead of the complicated calculations we were doing before the Feb 28 snapshot).
2> Have a working product - a stand alone DPoS coin which can be tested in real world, and which will show an unique I3 product.
3> Allow Bytemaster the time to release a working BTS X when it is ready. Right now, he is trying to rush out a DPoS coin named as BTS XT so as to make AGS investors liquid (see the post above).

Offline bytemaster

We are testing now and have working transfers.  Working toward your goal of being liquid ASAP.


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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline changematey

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3i suck!

As much as I want to agree with  you but I really can't. It's true that bts has been delayed over and over which is the source of your 3i disappointment. But let me tell you this , a wise investor has enormous amount of patience and will make his/her at exactly the way he  or she wants to move. Now instead of grudging on 3i, invest on other crypto. Balance your portfolio . Indeed it is the best ever remedy to wait and see situation. wanna tip? take a look at pawncoin. They wlll be releasing their own exchange and witness the skyrocket phenomenon that is happening now.

pawncoin is not a very good investment. slow block time, mining, and no community does not translate to a good investment. diversification is not the best investment strategy. the best investment strategy is knowing what you are investing in. if you are not comfortable waiting for the development of this platform you clearly do not understand what you are investing in. take the time to understand the situation better. take the time to understand the concepts that bitshares brings to the table and you might find that your concerns are not fully warranted.

If you are referring to my comments above, I would clearly stay with bitshare as I believe in its principles. But time is more important than anything else. I was soothing the pain of somebody's agony of waiting . Let someone earn a quick buck or two so that the anguish lessens. Eventhough what you have said about pawncoin is true , look at their project timeline. It is almost in sync. That is why short term investors are having hands on this opportunity. But when the smoke is clear as to say, people might dump it . At least they have earned from their investment in such small period of time.
Thats the issue isnt? If anyone raises a concern about the tardiness of 3I for them its all about the money. It certainly can't be about people's expectation, can it?

Given the onslaught of coins we had, the reason I chose PTS was because I really liked the idea. Make no mistake most start-up funding (which was PTS' purpose, wasn't it?)  happens because people like the idea. Now liking an idea and believing in it are two separate things. Belief comes later when the person asking for funding can actually prove himself. 
- So I was eagerly waiting for Keyhotee release in Dec. I could judge their work and then chose to believe in them -- it dint happen.
- I reset my expectations to BTS-X in March, dint happen.

I was ready to reset it to May-Jun too but then I hear - we don't know when will we be ready..and thats certainly not the kind of belief I am looking at.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 10:53:29 am by changematey »

Offline changematey

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I have been lurking through the forums; this statement just made me register on the forum. If I am reading it correctly, your solution to incorrect estimates (not only BTSX but keyhotee too) is not to provide an estimate any more. So basically, what you are saying is "we will never try to make a correct estimate, so yeah lets leave it?" I am just dumbfounded by this way of thinking. :-X


While I also appreciate the amount of work BM has put in compiling the list. The question really is - why weren't they tried before the snapshot or March dates? Is it going to be I3's policy to make a commitment, generate an interest from the public and then say this doesn't work so trust us for some more time? I guess you might think there is a whole new value proposition here so, I3 can get away with its tardiness.

I also work in the IT industry. Whenever I am asked for an estimate, my efforts are always padded with 30% of rework, rethink and general avoidance of being rushed. So if I need 10, I say 13.
In worst case, if I do cross 13 and there is 14/15th day, I am answerable to my end users. I certainly don't take a stance saying "well, as my estimates have proven wrong, so no estimate from here on."

That said, I understand there must be a lot of stress on BM. So if you can't give a day-wise estimate, how about a week/month estimate. Say we are looking at end of June or Q2 end or Q3 , that allays some nerves and certainly better than "we don't know when we will be ready (will it ever be?)"
3i suck!
No they don't suck. They are just tardy, thats all.
Until they release a working product - for which they have failed twice - keyhotee and now this, there is no way to judge their work.