Author Topic: Proxy: fav - Journal  (Read 39097 times)

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Offline fav

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #210 on: April 19, 2017, 04:32:45 pm »
voted witness [member=43607]roelandp[/member]
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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #211 on: April 29, 2017, 04:40:53 pm »
voted witness openledger-dc
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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #212 on: May 10, 2017, 06:22:06 pm »
voting for dsn and blckchnd

also, please consider providing HERO feed (if interested, contact xeroc)
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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #213 on: May 13, 2017, 09:17:37 am »
unvoted chris4210 comm and alfredo worker

reasoning:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23698.msg305989.html#msg305989

* Alfredo received almost 10x than what as quoted in terms of $

* irresponsible use of money and mismanagement which cost the DAC 1m BTS
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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #214 on: May 13, 2017, 10:04:57 am »
and to add a lessons learned:

Worker payment should be in bitUSD, and I won't vote for any future worker that does not denominate in bitUSD.
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Offline Permie

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #215 on: May 13, 2017, 01:03:03 pm »
and to add a lessons learned:

Worker payment should be in bitUSD, and I won't vote for any future worker that does not denominate in bitUSD.
Is there a mechanism in place for this?

My understanding is that worker proposals denote payment in bts.
Would 'payment in bitUSD' require constantly updating the worker to change the bts payrate (to reflect a new bts:USD price) ?
JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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Offline fav

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #216 on: May 13, 2017, 01:23:14 pm »
and to add a lessons learned:

Worker payment should be in bitUSD, and I won't vote for any future worker that does not denominate in bitUSD.
Is there a mechanism in place for this?

My understanding is that worker proposals denote payment in bts.
Would 'payment in bitUSD' require constantly updating the worker to change the bts payrate (to reflect a new bts:USD price) ?

there's none currently. but you could use escrow and burn BTS or prolong the worker in case.

or someone just develops bitUSD payments...
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Offline Geneko

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #217 on: May 13, 2017, 01:27:23 pm »
and to add a lessons learned:

Worker payment should be in bitUSD, and I won't vote for any future worker that does not denominate in bitUSD.

There is no need to be that harsh. Then all the workers and witnesses should be vote out. After they all receive payment in BTS (except [member=120]xeroc[/member]).
It is built in our core code. We need to address those issues, but we need consensus first.
 
EDIT: On a second thought you are right. It is fastest way we could change it. Lets vote!
You'll have my support.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 04:11:40 pm by Geneko »

Offline nmywn

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #218 on: May 13, 2017, 01:42:42 pm »
[member=120]xeroc[/member] is paid with bitUSD.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23770.0.html
http://cryptofresh.com/u/multisig-worker-2017-01

BTW Just noticed that escrow account has set its own proxy which perhaps shouldn't be: that BTS doesn't belong to them.
Quote
    Every thing that is not paid out after the end of the worker will be settled and returned to the reserve fund

Offline xeroc

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #219 on: May 14, 2017, 04:38:03 pm »
BTW Just noticed that escrow account has set its own proxy which perhaps shouldn't be: that BTS doesn't belong to them.
That's true ... but stake that doesn't vote is bad stake ..
but if this becomes a problem, we can figure out something else ... but we'd need a multisig group for that kind of working aswell and that is additional efforts I spared ..
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Offline paliboy

Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #220 on: May 15, 2017, 07:58:23 am »
BTW Just noticed that escrow account has set its own proxy which perhaps shouldn't be: that BTS doesn't belong to them.
That's true ... but stake that doesn't vote is bad stake ..

So should exchanges start voting as well?

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #221 on: May 15, 2017, 11:39:52 am »
So should exchanges start voting as well?
I have already tried reaching them.
For exchanges, I would actually recommend they delegate their voting power to a proxy that is maintained by a group of trusted individuals and owned by the committee.
That way, the exchanges do need to do politices, the stake could still vote and the shareholders have ultimate control over the voting power
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Offline Permie

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #222 on: May 15, 2017, 02:00:19 pm »
So should exchanges start voting as well?
I have already tried reaching them.
For exchanges, I would actually recommend they delegate their voting power to a proxy that is maintained by a group of trusted individuals and owned by the committee.
That way, the exchanges do need to do politices, the stake could still vote and the shareholders have ultimate control over the voting power

How are you suggesting the committee will be able to accurately reflect the will of the shareholders?

A proportional vote across all current witnesses that are up-for-election could ensure that voting stake is used, but the overall effect of the vote would be exactly neutral to the shareholder vote.
(I'm a bit rusty on the mechanics of voting so this might be based on faulty understanding)

Not all shareholders want to vote for the same things.
How can you use the stake to vote for what the shareholders want?
Vote for what 51% of shareholders want?

Could you also explain why non-voting stake is "bad stake"? I am willing to accept that it is, but I don't understand why currently.
I'm sure other shareholders don't either.

p.s Can anyone tell how many lurkers there are that read these forums as their due diligence before investing in BitShares? My point is that many people may be wanting to find information, but do not want to make an account. So I think it is a good idea to have quick explanations of what we are discussing and why and so forth. Lots/most of this information is available in the BitShares documentation, but having information feeds from all angles certainly doesn't hurt.

I would also suppose that doing a duckduckgo.com search for a specific question about BitShares would more likely lead to a post on this forum, rather than a page in the online official documentation.
I may be wrong.
e.g My post 2 years ago about paper wallet setup for BTS 1.0 is still the top hit for "paper wallet BitShares 2.0"
:)


(Sorry fav if this if your journal is the wrong place for this)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 02:03:07 pm by Permie »
JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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Offline Thom

Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #223 on: May 15, 2017, 03:32:33 pm »
So should exchanges start voting as well?
I have already tried reaching them.
For exchanges, I would actually recommend they delegate their voting power to a proxy that is maintained by a group of trusted individuals and owned by the committee.
That way, the exchanges do need to do politices, the stake could still vote and the shareholders have ultimate control over the voting power

Why would we want to solicit that anyway? I disagree that stake that doesn't vote is "bad stake" when it comes to exchanges. Unless exchanges explicitly disclose their intentions to BTS stakeholders with stake on their exchange about how they intend to vote and give them notice to move their stake if they don't like it, THEN the exchange is misrepresenting those stakeholders. They are aggregating their power to the interests of the exchange not the BTS stakeholders.

We've discussed exchange voting before and IIRC the general consensus is was to consider it a potential problem and contrary to decentralization. It's not the same as proxies, b/c stakeholders can switch their proxy themselves on a dime. Without accountability of exchanges to BTS stakeholders who hold their stake on their exchange, it is centralized and unhealthy for personal freedom.

One could well argue that such stakeholders relinquish their control by using centralized exchanges, and I agree. But should we encourage the legitimacy of this centralization? I think not. Unfortunately we can't control what exchanges do either.

The issue is similar to explaining to people why centralized banking is not in their best interests and convincing them to get out and seek alternatives like digital currencies that support individual freedom and safety from bailins. It's simply a hard nut to crack.

My question to [member=120]xeroc[/member] is in what way did you reach out to exchanges and what did you suggest to them?
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Offline fav

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Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« Reply #224 on: June 29, 2017, 07:32:47 pm »
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