Author Topic: TRADE.BTC and TRADE.LTC are up and running  (Read 14520 times)

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Offline dannotestein

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Any plans to add PLS (Bitshares play)?

i know people want to trade them but wont since its on an exchange that requires ID to trade.
Yes, MUSE and PLS are definitely in the plans for near term support.
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jaran

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Any plans to add PLS (Bitshares play)?

i know people want to trade them but wont since its on an exchange that requires ID to trade.

Offline dannotestein

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There should be no asset like TRADE.BTC. This was said so many times. Expectations of users is to have a gateway like: real BTC <-> bitBTC. The gateway should provide a liquidity. I should not be forced to trade TRADE.BTC with bitBTC on yet another exchange.

So... in other words... stupidity of current gateway mechanism.

You cant have market pegged assets until you have price discovery of the real BTC/BTS price first. In the mean time do we just wait for the centralized exchanges to determine the price and let them have all the fees and profit? No. We allow trading IOUs for Bitcoin as well as market pegged assets. Besides, its easier to get liquidity for the real thing first.

What we need is one IOU for Bitcoin on the blockchain, instead of Blocktrades and CCEDK competing with each other and dividing liquidity.
I tend to agree, and it's not been our plan at BlockTrades to compete in this market long term. We're more interested in operating as an instant exchange/market maker (and other opportunities we're exploring for the long term). Mainly TRADE assets are being used now because we were closest to Cryptonomex and we had all the pieces ready when BitShares 2.0 turned on. We're hoping in the near term to be able to phase-out any TRADE assets that compete with those of OPEN. There are some advantages to having a second gateway asset (for example, if one server goes down), of course. So we could keep it going mainly as a "fall-back" and simply encourage traders to purchase OPEN instead (OPEN was moved to first position on wallet to encourage this).

TL;DR in the long run, we would like BlockTrades integration with the wallet to be primarily for "instant-buying", with TRADE asset purchases mainly used if OPEN server is down for some reason. We can probably "encourage" this by placing fees for TRADE asset slighly higher than OPEN assets.

Finally, if anyone wants to help to really help bitshares as an exchange right now, I highly recommend you place orders on there instead of centralized exchanges. Sure, it's a chicken-and-egg problem, you just have to decide to go beyond it and place orders. I know the interface still could use a lot of work, but it does seem to function reliably for the orders I've placed. In particular, we could use orders between OPENBTC/BTS, since this market is part of our "real" gateway.
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Offline speedy

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There should be no asset like TRADE.BTC. This was said so many times. Expectations of users is to have a gateway like: real BTC <-> bitBTC. The gateway should provide a liquidity. I should not be forced to trade TRADE.BTC with bitBTC on yet another exchange.

So... in other words... stupidity of current gateway mechanism.

You cant have market pegged assets until you have price discovery of the real BTC/BTS price first. In the mean time do we just wait for the centralized exchanges to determine the price and let them have all the fees and profit? No. We allow trading IOUs for Bitcoin as well as market pegged assets. Besides, its easier to get liquidity for the real thing first.

What we need is one IOU for Bitcoin on the blockchain, instead of Blocktrades and CCEDK competing with eachother and dividing liquidity.

Offline noisy

There should be no asset like TRADE.BTC. This was said so many times. Expectations of users is to have a gateway like: real BTC <-> bitBTC. The gateway should provide a liquidity. I should not be forced to trade TRADE.BTC with bitBTC on yet another exchange.

So... in other words... stupidity of current gateway mechanism.
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv

Offline speedy

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Everyone here with BTC on Poloniex, whats stopping you from withdrawing into TRADE.BTC ?

Offline oakmaster

k so I did a test run from btc to trade.btc u guys are faster than any exchange

Offline oakmaster

can i send btc ltc and doge directly to the address in my wallet cause just for a test i sent 10 doge yesterday and never received it in my wallet and the same for trade.btc and trade.ltc or do i have to send my deposit to blocktrades to be converted
Hi Oakmaster,

You should be able to buy the trade.btc/trade.ltc directly from the wallet. I checked our system and I don't see any failed transactions for trade.btc or trade.ltc. Can you PM me with more information about your transactions?

One potential issue (which doesn't appear to be the case for the trade asset purchases as it would show up differently in our system) is that you have to send enough input funds to cover transaction cost of sending you the trade asset. For example, I did check the value of the 10 DOGE you sent to openledger, and it's less than the cost of a transaction, so I'd guess that's why you haven't received any OPENDOGE from them. You probably need to send around 1000 DOGE to get any output.

best regards,

Dan Notestein
BlockTrades Intl Ltd
with the doge is ok it was only 10 doge just as a test but i just wanted to make sure if i send BTC or LTC from my BTC or LTC wallet to the address in my Bitshares wallet Openledger and Blocktrade BTC and LTC address is that ok or for TRADE.BTC and TRADE.LTC do i have to send it to blocktrades than to my wallet to have it converted to TRADE.BTC I just dont want to send 100 in btc to my wallet address and have it not show up cause I was supposed to convert it
Thank You
You don't have to visit the Blocktrades.us website, you can send directly to the BTC/LTC addresses in the wallet and they will be converted to either an OPEN asset (if you use CCEDK) or a TRADE asset (if you use BlockTrades). If it's your first time making a deposit, I do recommend sending a smaller amount, say .01 BTC before you send 100 BTC, however.

After you make the deposit, the TRADE.BTC or TRADE.LTC should show up in your wallet after 1 or 2 confirmations. You can then place orders on the distributed exchange with your TRADE asset. For example, you could visit the TRADE.BTC_BTS market to place an order for BTS.

On the other hand, if you just want to purchase BTS directly with BTC, and don't want to do it via an exchange-type transaction (placing a bid or ask), you can visit blocktrades.us and buy the BTS directly from BlockTrades.

So there's really two paths to purchasing, just depends on if you want to be an active trader or just make a quick asset buy.
Thanks thats what I was wondering

Offline dannotestein

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can i send btc ltc and doge directly to the address in my wallet cause just for a test i sent 10 doge yesterday and never received it in my wallet and the same for trade.btc and trade.ltc or do i have to send my deposit to blocktrades to be converted
Hi Oakmaster,

You should be able to buy the trade.btc/trade.ltc directly from the wallet. I checked our system and I don't see any failed transactions for trade.btc or trade.ltc. Can you PM me with more information about your transactions?

One potential issue (which doesn't appear to be the case for the trade asset purchases as it would show up differently in our system) is that you have to send enough input funds to cover transaction cost of sending you the trade asset. For example, I did check the value of the 10 DOGE you sent to openledger, and it's less than the cost of a transaction, so I'd guess that's why you haven't received any OPENDOGE from them. You probably need to send around 1000 DOGE to get any output.

best regards,

Dan Notestein
BlockTrades Intl Ltd
with the doge is ok it was only 10 doge just as a test but i just wanted to make sure if i send BTC or LTC from my BTC or LTC wallet to the address in my Bitshares wallet Openledger and Blocktrade BTC and LTC address is that ok or for TRADE.BTC and TRADE.LTC do i have to send it to blocktrades than to my wallet to have it converted to TRADE.BTC I just dont want to send 100 in btc to my wallet address and have it not show up cause I was supposed to convert it
Thank You
You don't have to visit the Blocktrades.us website, you can send directly to the BTC/LTC addresses in the wallet and they will be converted to either an OPEN asset (if you use CCEDK) or a TRADE asset (if you use BlockTrades). If it's your first time making a deposit, I do recommend sending a smaller amount, say .01 BTC before you send 100 BTC, however.

After you make the deposit, the TRADE.BTC or TRADE.LTC should show up in your wallet after 1 or 2 confirmations. You can then place orders on the distributed exchange with your TRADE asset. For example, you could visit the TRADE.BTC_BTS market to place an order for BTS.

On the other hand, if you just want to purchase BTS directly with BTC, and don't want to do it via an exchange-type transaction (placing a bid or ask), you can visit blocktrades.us and buy the BTS directly from BlockTrades.

So there's really two paths to purchasing, just depends on if you want to be an active trader or just make a quick asset buy.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 06:34:57 pm by dannotestein »
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Offline oakmaster

can i send btc ltc and doge directly to the address in my wallet cause just for a test i sent 10 doge yesterday and never received it in my wallet and the same for trade.btc and trade.ltc or do i have to send my deposit to blocktrades to be converted
Hi Oakmaster,

You should be able to buy the trade.btc/trade.ltc directly from the wallet. I checked our system and I don't see any failed transactions for trade.btc or trade.ltc. Can you PM me with more information about your transactions?

One potential issue (which doesn't appear to be the case for the trade asset purchases as it would show up differently in our system) is that you have to send enough input funds to cover transaction cost of sending you the trade asset. For example, I did check the value of the 10 DOGE you sent to openledger, and it's less than the cost of a transaction, so I'd guess that's why you haven't received any OPENDOGE from them. You probably need to send around 1000 DOGE to get any output.

best regards,

Dan Notestein
BlockTrades Intl Ltd
with the doge is ok it was only 10 doge just as a test but i just wanted to make sure if i send BTC or LTC from my BTC or LTC wallet to the address in my Bitshares wallet Openledger and Blocktrade BTC and LTC address is that ok or for TRADE.BTC and TRADE.LTC do i have to send it to blocktrades than to my wallet to have it converted to TRADE.BTC I just dont want to send 100 in btc to my wallet address and have it not show up cause I was supposed to convert it
Thank You

Offline dannotestein

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can i send btc ltc and doge directly to the address in my wallet cause just for a test i sent 10 doge yesterday and never received it in my wallet and the same for trade.btc and trade.ltc or do i have to send my deposit to blocktrades to be converted
Hi Oakmaster,

You should be able to buy the trade.btc/trade.ltc directly from the wallet. I checked our system and I don't see any failed transactions for trade.btc or trade.ltc. Can you PM me with more information about your transactions?

One potential issue (which doesn't appear to be the case for the trade asset purchases as it would show up differently in our system) is that you have to send enough input funds to cover transaction cost of sending you the trade asset. For example, I did check the value of the 10 DOGE you sent to openledger, and it's less than the cost of a transaction, so I'd guess that's why you haven't received any OPENDOGE from them. You probably need to send around 1000 DOGE to get any output.

best regards,

Dan Notestein
BlockTrades Intl Ltd
http://blocktrades.us Fast/Safe/High-Liquidity Crypto Coin Converter

Offline oakmaster

can i send btc ltc and doge directly to the address in my wallet cause just for a test i sent 10 doge yesterday and never received it in my wallet and the same for trade.btc and trade.ltc or do i have to send my deposit to blocktrades to be converted

Offline dannotestein

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We re-enabled BTC->TRADE.BTC purchases yesterday after the fixes to the web wallet were deployed by the main hosters and we've processed all the pending transactions.

The webwallet is still relatively new, however, so we still strongly recommend that you first do a small test deposit and verify receipt of your TRADE.BTC before you make larger purchases. Please note that while BlockTrades will naturally refund any amounts lost due to errors in our code (improper operation of the BlockTrades API), we can't be responsible for errors made by 3rd party apps that make incorrect requests to our API.

On an unrelated note, we've increased liquidity for BTC->BTS purchases now that we're comfortable with the transition to BitShares 2.0. At the current moment, we have an inventory of ~1.5M BTS available for purchase. We plan to resume offerings for BitUSD and other BitAssets that rely on BitShares DEX pricing next week.
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Offline bytemaster

Tried this today...sent BTC to the deposit address.  19 BTC confirmations.  Received nothing so far....very frustrated.

Deposit/withdraw is temporary unavailable. See the posts above.

So, will the funds flow at some point or have I lost my deposit?

You should get the funds.   
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Offline GaltReport

Tried this today...sent BTC to the deposit address.  19 BTC confirmations.  Received nothing so far....very frustrated.

Deposit/withdraw is temporary unavailable. See the posts above.

So, will the funds flow at some point or have I lost my deposit?

Offline clayop

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Tried this today...sent BTC to the deposit address.  19 BTC confirmations.  Received nothing so far....very frustrated.

Deposit/withdraw is temporary unavailable. See the posts above.
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Offline GaltReport

Tried this today...sent BTC to the deposit address.  19 BTC confirmations.  Received nothing so far....very frustrated.

Offline yvv

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When I click "generate" against BlockTrades gateway, I get "deposit to unknown" instead of bitcoin address. What happens?

Offline ag

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Cool. I swear I never viewed that account it got sent to, maybe someone else was... but not me. So I'm not sure if the bug is exactly as you describe. but hopefully BM's fix solves it.

Offline bytemaster

The issue has been fixed and will be deployed tomorrow.
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Offline dannotestein

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Hi, I made a really small deposit that didn't go through. It has 285 confirmations as of now.
https://blockchain.info/tx/1e9d81520ab1993b2b60e07cdaf314cee7ea3a52f1a7e12ad142da0af5474f17
So it doesn't really matter, but I wanted to alert you of this.
It looks like our system processed your order and sent the TRADE.BTC. I PM'd you with details on the transaction.

The account you sent it to I've never heard of... funny how that happened. I assume you manually processed my tx. Also you sent him 0.00031208, I sent 0.0004. do you have a deposit fee? I saw about the orderbook fee for trade.btc above.
It appears there is a problem in the webwallet code that can cause this problem. It sends a command to generate a deposit address the first time you visit the deposit/withdrawal page, which would be fine, but it uses whatever account you are currently viewing  (which may not be an account you control) as the receiving address. So it's possible (but unlikely) that you could generate an address to an account not under your control, which clearly isn't desirable.

ByteMaster's going to fix the webwallet, but in the meantime we're disabling BTC -> TRADE.BTC (deposits) until he's fixed the webwallet and deployed it to the major webwallet providers. We're leaving the other direction enabled as there's no potential problem there (you can get BTC from TRADE.BTC).

In answer to your fee question: we charge a fixed fee of 4 BTS (converted to ~BTC equivalent) to send the TRADE.BTC to cover our network transaction cost and we charge a 0.05% fee for the conversion itself.
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Offline dannotestein

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After having thought more about these IOUs on the blockchain, Ive realised they are actually really important.

For Market pegged assets to work, we first need price discovery of the real BTC/BTS exchange rate to tell us where the peg should be. So we can either get that from centralized exchanges and let them have all the fees, or we can let the blockchain earn the fees as well as introducing users to our ecosystem.

Core dev team 10 steps ahead as usual.
Yes, that's the main intent.
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Offline speedy

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After having thought more about these IOUs on the blockchain, Ive realised they are actually really important.

For Market pegged assets to work, we first need price discovery of the real BTC/BTS exchange rate to tell us where the peg should be. So we can either get that from centralized exchanges and let them have all the fees, or we can let the blockchain earn the fees as well as introducing users to our ecosystem.

Core dev team 10 steps ahead as usual.

Offline ag

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Hi, I made a really small deposit that didn't go through. It has 285 confirmations as of now.
https://blockchain.info/tx/1e9d81520ab1993b2b60e07cdaf314cee7ea3a52f1a7e12ad142da0af5474f17
So it doesn't really matter, but I wanted to alert you of this.
It looks like our system processed your order and sent the TRADE.BTC. I PM'd you with details on the transaction.

The account you sent it to I've never heard of... funny how that happened. I assume you manually processed my tx. Also you sent him 0.00031208, I sent 0.0004. do you have a deposit fee? I saw about the orderbook fee for trade.btc above.

Offline dannotestein

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Hi, I made a really small deposit that didn't go through. It has 285 confirmations as of now.
https://blockchain.info/tx/1e9d81520ab1993b2b60e07cdaf314cee7ea3a52f1a7e12ad142da0af5474f17
So it doesn't really matter, but I wanted to alert you of this.
It looks like our system processed your order and sent the TRADE.BTC. I PM'd you with details on the transaction.
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Offline ag

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Hi, I made a really small deposit that didn't go through. It has 285 confirmations as of now.
https://blockchain.info/tx/1e9d81520ab1993b2b60e07cdaf314cee7ea3a52f1a7e12ad142da0af5474f17
So it doesn't really matter, but I wanted to alert you of this.

Offline dannotestein

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My withdrawal was not processed and I did not receive any bitcoin from blocktrade.us.

Bitshares txn: https://bitshares.org/wallet/#/block/102229
BTC withdrawal address: 1147bnNxnJqvcePbyX79ZXmHGxRuKuugik
For some reason the backend isn't processing the transaction correctly (it's not showing up at all, so I suspect a problem in the transaction scanner code). Blocktrades is down while we analyze the issue. In the meantime, I've manually processed your transaction and sent you BTC.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 03:30:17 pm by dannotestein »
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Tuck Fheman

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I click the GENERATE button in the deposits/withdrawals page, nothing happens, no address generated. Testing with the openledger.info wallet, on chrome.

Javascript enabled.

same in light wallet

10/19 : works in new version.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 12:15:02 am by Tuck Fheman »

Offline karnal

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I click the GENERATE button in the deposits/withdrawals page, nothing happens, no address generated. Testing with the openledger.info wallet, on chrome.

Javascript enabled.

clout

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My withdrawal was not processed and I did not receive any bitcoin from blocktrade.us.

Bitshares txn: https://bitshares.org/wallet/#/block/102229
BTC withdrawal address: 1147bnNxnJqvcePbyX79ZXmHGxRuKuugik

Offline xiahui135

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What the gateway can get to do so. The exchange fee is too low.
And the fee to place an order is high. Why not lower the fee to place order and increase the exchange fee? (Even can be set by the issuer)

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this is so amazing, it's the best BTC exchange. this can be very very big business.
you need  a good team to  focus this exchange, and find a good marketmaker.

I just did a test run of depositing BITCOIN via TRADE.BTC  on the Deposit/Withdraw tab in the wallet and it worked.   

I suggest you try it out and then look at this market.

https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/TRADE.BTC_BTS

For trading BTC vs BTS on the blockchain.    This way you never have to trust your BTS to an exchange again.

Offline xiahui135

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I can not create my deposit address for trade.BTC or trade.LTC.

Offline svk

I have few questions:

1. Why I cannot find  BTS_TRADE on Exchange Tab?



I can only go there with link:
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/BTS_TRADE.BTC

2. When market history will be fixed? (reported https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/issues/339, known isuee since 17 June!!!)

3.

Quote
Minimal counter party risk.   Right now you have to trust the exchange with both BTS and BTC.   Now you only have to trust the Gateway with BTC.

No. This is not minimal. I think all TRADE_BTS can be stolen by the owner of the gateway. Why this just cannot automatically buy bitBTC with BTC? Gateway should automatically provide an information about rate bitBTC/BTC and when user deposit real BTC on gateway those BTC should be automatically converted to bitBTC.
1. You need to add that market to your favourites first by searching on the left side, the input you're trying to use is only a filter.

Unfortunately the search functionality is waiting on a new api call so for now you need to enter the exact name of the quote asset (TRADE.BTC) in the second input field.

Worker: dev.bitsharesblocks

Offline dannotestein

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It should probably be emphasized that we're mainly just testing this path right now. I do not recommend purchasing large amounts of TRADE assets until we've had more testing by many users. Please view this as a beta test and spend appropriately.

Also, this is largely a stopgap measure as far as Blocktrades is concerned to allow for an on-ramp for getting into bitshares from btc/ltc/etc. Ultimately we prefer to resume operating as an instant exchange for purchase of bts and bitassets as soon as the webwallet allows it.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 04:28:49 am by dannotestein »
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Offline dannotestein

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What I said is about market transactions. So the clicked price (of sell order) is not the same as my order price (0.000017 vs. 0.000016995)
oh, sorry, didn't understand that before, thought you were talking about deposits/withdrawals. Yes, there is a fee for market transactions, it should be 0.2%. I guess my confusion is that seems smaller than 0.2% so maybe the fee has been set wrong (or it could be some other fee associated with market orders charged by the graphene exchange itself).
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 04:03:49 am by dannotestein »
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Offline clayop

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What I said is about market transactions. So the clicked price (of sell order) is not the same as my order price (0.000017 vs. 0.000016995)
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Offline dannotestein

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There is also another decimal bug.
I clicked 0.00017 and 0.037xxxx TRADE.BTC. But the confirmation page tell me the price is 0.00001699995 something. It should exactly be 0.000017.

BTW I made the first transaction! :D
That's actually not a bug:
It's slightly less than .000017 because we charge the "transaction fee" that it costs us to send the TRADE.BTC to the user. If you visit blocktrades.us, you can see the fee it charges (it's approximately 2 cents USD, IIRC).

The graphene wallet gui doesn't yet display our conversion price, which is why it only allows buying/selling of our UIA TRADE assets currently (where it's aproximately 1 for 1). Once the wallet gui is updated to show conversion prices, users will have the option to directly buy any bitshares asset (including bts, of course) supported by blocktrades.

Do you mean market transaction fee?
No, in this case the fee is the "transaction fee" to send a bitshares asset (TRADE.BTC) on the bitshares network. And when doing a withdrawal, we charge a bitcoin transaction fee to send the bitcoin. Naturally, this fee is very small and it's fixed (it's not relative to the amount of funds being transferred).
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Offline clayop

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There is also another decimal bug.
I clicked 0.00017 and 0.037xxxx TRADE.BTC. But the confirmation page tell me the price is 0.00001699995 something. It should exactly be 0.000017.

BTW I made the first transaction! :D
That's actually not a bug:
It's slightly less than .000017 because we charge the "transaction fee" that it costs us to send the TRADE.BTC to the user. If you visit blocktrades.us, you can see the fee it charges (it's approximately 2 cents USD, IIRC).

The graphene wallet gui doesn't yet display our conversion price, which is why it only allows buying/selling of our UIA TRADE assets currently (where it's aproximately 1 for 1). Once the wallet gui is updated to show conversion prices, users will have the option to directly buy any bitshares asset (including bts, of course) supported by blocktrades.

Do you mean market transaction fee?
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Offline dannotestein

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So each gateway will have to create own SomethingBTC? That would be insane!

This is so overwhelming even right now with: BTC, bitBTC and TRADE.BTC. People will not use it because they will not understand it.

Quote
Blocktrades is run by people who have commit access to the BitShares repositories.

Is that mean, that gateways would be only govern by people with commit access to BitShares? This seems to be a huge abuse of power.

I dont think its like that - Metaexchange is being integrated soon.

Yes it is confusing - all the gateways should be focusing on depositing into BitBTC.
I have no idea why BM mentioned we have access to the BitShares repository, other than maybe to say we're already trusted by the BitShares community. There's certainly no plan to exclude anyone from offering gateways.

The only reason we're first is because we've been integrating with the graphene wallet as it's being developed (which is a painful process, as things were rapidly changing). Even now, we don't yet support getting market pricing from the graphene internal exchange, so we've got a few more days of work there.
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Offline dannotestein

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Gateway IOU Bitcoin such as TRADE.BTC should trade at absolute face value whe returning to real bitcoin.  Ie charge all fees on the way in to gateway btc.
The rate is 1-1 except for the cost of sending the bitcoin (the bitcoin transaction fee).
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Offline dannotestein

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I have few questions:

1. Why I cannot find  BTS_TRADE on Exchange Tab?



I can only go there with link:
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/BTS_TRADE.BTC

2. When market history will be fixed? (reported https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/issues/339, known isuee since 17 June!!!)

3.

Quote
Minimal counter party risk.   Right now you have to trust the exchange with both BTS and BTC.   Now you only have to trust the Gateway with BTC.

No. This is not minimal. I think all TRADE_BTS can be stolen by the owner of the gateway. Why this just cannot automatically buy bitBTC with BTC? Gateway should automatically provide an information about rate bitBTC/BTC and when user deposit real BTC on gateway those BTC should be automatically converted to bitBTC.
For 1), I have the same issue as you, but it doesn't happen on BMs machine. Possibly it's something to do with different browsers, but this needs to be fixed.
For 2), don't have any input on this
For 3), the risk is minimal if you don't hold TRADE.BTC for long. Essentially you do the following:
1) Deposit BTC to get TRADE.BTC (delay time of 1 bitcoin confirmation)
2) Buy BTS on the TRADE.BTC vs BTS market (or whatever BitAsset you desire). At this point, the BTS or BitAsset is in your wallet under your control.

For the reverse process, you buy TRADE.BTC with BTS from the bitshare exchange.
Then withdraw the TRADE.BTC to BTC (once again asset is under your control).
In short, you can rapidly trade out of TRADE.BTC if you're concerned that the keys to it will be compromised.

TRADE.BTC isn't really intended as a speculative investment, so most people should be willing trade in and out of it for BitBTC or BTS quickly. We'll also have a pair up soon that allows blocktrades visitors to trade into BitBTC from TRADE.BTC. The intent of TRADE.BTC is to offer an "off-ramp" to bitcoin, whereas BitBTC is intended to be the speculative coin to hold for investment purposes.



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Offline JonnyB

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Gateway IOU Bitcoin such as TRADE.BTC should trade at absolute face value whe returning to real bitcoin.  Ie charge all fees on the way in to gateway btc.
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
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Offline speedy

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So each gateway will have to create own SomethingBTC? That would be insane!

This is so overwhelming even right now with: BTC, bitBTC and TRADE.BTC. People will not use it because they will not understand it.

Quote
Blocktrades is run by people who have commit access to the BitShares repositories.

Is that mean, that gateways would be only govern by people with commit access to BitShares? This seems to be a huge abuse of power.

I dont think its like that - Metaexchange is being integrated soon.

Yes it is confusing - all the gateways should be focusing on depositing into BitBTC.

Offline noisy

So...TRADE.BTC was created by blocktrades?


So each gateway will have to create own SomethingBTC? That would be insane!

This is so overwhelming even right now with: BTC, bitBTC and TRADE.BTC. People will not use it because they will not understand it.

Quote
Blocktrades is run by people who have commit access to the BitShares repositories.

Is that mean, that gateways would be only govern by people with commit access to BitShares? This seems to be a huge abuse of power.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 12:31:51 am by noisy »
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv

Offline dannotestein

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There is also another decimal bug.
I clicked 0.00017 and 0.037xxxx TRADE.BTC. But the confirmation page tell me the price is 0.00001699995 something. It should exactly be 0.000017.

BTW I made the first transaction! :D
That's actually not a bug:
It's slightly less than .000017 because we charge the "transaction fee" that it costs us to send the TRADE.BTC to the user. If you visit blocktrades.us, you can see the fee it charges (it's approximately 2 cents USD, IIRC).

The graphene wallet gui doesn't yet display our conversion price, which is why it only allows buying/selling of our UIA TRADE assets currently (where it's aproximately 1 for 1). Once the wallet gui is updated to show conversion prices, users will have the option to directly buy any bitshares asset (including bts, of course) supported by blocktrades.
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Offline speedy

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No. This is not minimal. I think all TRADE_BTS can be stolen by the owner of the gateway. Why this just cannot automatically buy bitBTC with BTC? Gateway should automatically provide an information about rate bitBTC/BTC and when user deposit real BTC on gateway those BTC should be automatically converted to bitBTC.

Totally agree. WIth TRADE.BTC not only can the BTC be stolen but the UIA can be compromised and steal all the BTS for sale on the orderbook. The risk is greater here than even on a centralized exchanged. I dont see why Blocktrades is advertising their UIA in the webwallet when they already offer to deposit into BitBTC. Moreover having 2 options for trading BTS vs BTC with different security implications will confuse people and dilute liquidity.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 12:23:44 am by speedy »

Offline noisy

I have few questions:

1. Why I cannot find  BTS_TRADE on Exchange Tab?



I can only go there with link:
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/BTS_TRADE.BTC

2. When market history will be fixed? (reported https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/issues/339, known isuee since 17 June!!!)

3.

Quote
Minimal counter party risk.   Right now you have to trust the exchange with both BTS and BTC.   Now you only have to trust the Gateway with BTC.

No. This is not minimal. I think all TRADE_BTS can be stolen by the owner of the gateway. Why this just cannot automatically buy bitBTC with BTC? Gateway should automatically provide an information about rate bitBTC/BTC and when user deposit real BTC on gateway those BTC should be automatically converted to bitBTC.
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv

Offline monsterer

Minimal counter party risk.   Right now you have to trust the exchange with both BTS and BTC.   Now you only have to trust the Gateway with BTC.

The next hurdle is getting the pegged asset to be a genuine substitute, that would mean truly no counterparty risk.
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
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Offline bytemaster

This way you never have to trust your BTS to an exchange again.

No counterparty risk?

Minimal counter party risk.   Right now you have to trust the exchange with both BTS and BTC.   Now you only have to trust the Gateway with BTC.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

I cannot input a withdrawal address. Also it should only take one BTC confirmation before my account is credited with TRADE.BTC

You CAN imput a withdraw address, it is just rendering it in white.  (Select it to read it)

Download the latest Light Wallet release to fix it.
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Offline monsterer

This way you never have to trust your BTS to an exchange again.

No counterparty risk?
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I cannot input a withdrawal address. Also it should only take one BTC confirmation before my account is credited with TRADE.BTC
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 10:11:51 pm by clout »

Offline kryo2k

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TRADE.BTC is backed by BTC held in a combination of  hot, cool, and cold storage.    It is fundamentally no different than BTC held in other exchanges *EXCEPT* that rather than controlling your exchange account with a username and password you control it with your BitShares account.

Blocktrades is run by people who have commit access to the BitShares repositories.

Thanks. I must have edited my question after someone else answered

I think I understand this is done thru the gateway, but doesn't this assume that the gateway has a balance enough to withdraw, and thus having similar liquidity risks as with a centralized exchange but with the security of being able to cash out from any gateway that is liquid for the required amount? Does the gateway specify a fee for conversion (trade.btc => btc)?

You are correct.  If Blocktrades had their issuer key compromised any BTS on order books would be at risk.

I have advised them to pre-issue a fixed amount and then keep the issuer account in cold storage with multi-factor authentication.  This would keep the issuer account secure. 

If they were compromised they would have halt trading of their asset on the blockchain.

Does this mean that only BlockTrades.us can issue and redeem TRADE.BTC?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 10:07:12 pm by kryo2k »

Offline bytemaster

There is MINIMAL RISK in leaving your BTS on the order book at the price you are willing to sell at.   

But there is risk when your BTS has been sold for TRADE.BTC, which is still vulnerable to Blocktrades getting goxxed correct?

You are correct.  If Blocktrades had their issuer key compromised any BTS on order books would be at risk.

I have advised them to pre-issue a fixed amount and then keep the issuer account in cold storage with multi-factor authentication.  This would keep the issuer account secure. 

If they were compromised they would have halt trading of their asset on the blockchain.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:55:41 pm by bytemaster »
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Offline bytemaster

Can anybody point me to a forum link, or explain the TRADE.BTC/LTC implementation in detail?

Specifically, curious how/where physical coin (BTC) is held, and how that wallet is controlled. I assume TRADE.BTC acts as a marker for real BTC? On withdrawl, it cuts supply and withdraws from an actual bitcoin wallet somewhere or via the blockchain directly?

I also assume that TRADE.BTC differs from BitBTC by not being a BTC collateral backed short position but rather a fungible asset itself backed by real BTC?

Thanks!

TRADE.BTC is backed by BTC held in a combination of  hot, cool, and cold storage.    It is fundamentally no different than BTC held in other exchanges *EXCEPT* that rather than controlling your exchange account with a username and password you control it with your BitShares account.

Blocktrades is run by people who have commit access to the BitShares repositories. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline speedy

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There is MINIMAL RISK in leaving your BTS on the order book at the price you are willing to sell at.   

But there is risk when your BTS has been sold for TRADE.BTC, which is still vulnerable to Blocktrades getting goxxed correct?

Offline clayop

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Will it be possible to set it up to trade BTC and LTC directly? That will be huge.

https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/TRADE.LTC_TRADE.BTC

Lol, I meant whether it can be done directly without using BTS. Someone would send BTC and receive LTC and vice versa.

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Offline habeler

Will it be possible to set it up to trade BTC and LTC directly? That will be huge.

https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/TRADE.LTC_TRADE.BTC

Lol, I meant whether it can be done directly without using BTS. Someone would send BTC and receive LTC and vice versa.
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Offline kryo2k

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Can anybody point me to a forum link, or explain the TRADE.BTC/LTC implementation in detail?

Specifically, curious how/where physical coin (BTC) is held, and how that wallet is controlled. I assume TRADE.BTC acts as a marker for real BTC? On withdrawl, it cuts supply and withdraws from an actual bitcoin wallet somewhere or via the blockchain directly?

I also assume that TRADE.BTC differs from BitBTC by not being a BTC collateral backed short position but rather a fungible asset itself backed by real BTC?

edit:
I think I understand this is done thru the gateway, but doesn't this assume that the gateway has a balance enough to withdraw, and thus having similar liquidity risks as with a centralized exchange but with the security of being able to cash out from any gateway that is liquid for the required amount? Does the gateway specify a fee for conversion (trade.btc => btc)?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:54:53 pm by kryo2k »

Offline clayop

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There is also another decimal bug.
I clicked 0.00017 and 0.037xxxx TRADE.BTC. But the confirmation page tell me the price is 0.00001699995 something. It should exactly be 0.000017.

BTW I made the first transaction! :D
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Offline bytemaster

There is one little bug: when you flip the market to BTS : TRADE.BTC the prices are not fully displayed in the list of market bid/ask orders on the left hand side of the screen.
Also, the market depth chart is not showing the prices on the horizontal axis.
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/BTS_TRADE.BTC

@svk this looks like something you can fix relatively quickly.
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Offline bytemaster

There is MINIMAL RISK in leaving your BTS on the order book at the price you are willing to sell at.   

As users of BTS we should be promoting the internal exchange and gateways such as  OpenLedger, BlockTrades, and MetaExchange as the best place to do trading. 

If you are a TRADER who keeps BTC on exchanges then you can help support the network / BTS price by depositing into BlockTrades and using the internal markets for placing your orders.
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Offline Ander

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If you trade using these, instead of on an exchange, you pay a flat, roughly 10 cent fee (2c for subscriber) per trade, instead of 0.2% of the total.  (Assuming BTS = .5 cent).

For subscribers, you will pay lower fees using BTS if your trade is at least $10 of value.
For non subscribers you will pay lower fees using BTS if your trade is at least $50 of value.


And your fees burn BTS and thus help support Bitshares instead of going to a centralized exchange.


As long as we can get some liquidity and you arent dealing with issues of a big spread, this is clearly superior.
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jakub

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There is one little bug: when you flip the market to BTS : TRADE.BTC the prices are not fully displayed in the list of market bid/ask orders on the left hand side of the screen.
Also, the market depth chart is not showing the prices on the horizontal axis.
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/BTS_TRADE.BTC

Offline clayop

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Offline habeler

Will it be possible to set it up to trade BTC and LTC directly? That will be huge.
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Offline bytemaster

I just did a test run of depositing BITCOIN via TRADE.BTC  on the Deposit/Withdraw tab in the wallet and it worked.   

I suggest you try it out and then look at this market.

https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/exchange/trade/TRADE.BTC_BTS

For trading BTC vs BTS on the blockchain.    This way you never have to trust your BTS to an exchange again.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.