Wow. That was a shitty day for bitshares

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?

Transaction fees. Thats why we went for buy back instead of dividends.

Becoming a security is what stops it I thought. Then becoming subject to all kinds of regulatory issues. Transaction fees might be an issue also.

The laws just changed on that. It's now a possible route to follow the new legislation and become a security. It's also tax free in Europe so it's actually a good time and legally the landscape is now in favor of securities on Bitshares.

While I'm not a lawyer and don't know all the paperwork, I know it is now possible to start down that path. Equity crowd funding is now realistic. Although in the case of Metaexchange it might not actually be desirable because that is an all crypto exchange.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19607.0.html

While the barrier has been lowered, you are still looking at approx $10k in legal work and there is still the need to be compliant. I was having a conversation today about crowdfunding with the blockchain today with investors... they know all about this and just want to see if anybody out there is actually doing this and is compliant. I only know of gemspace.net... but there isn't anything public to indicate how it is going with that.

[luckybit]

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?

Transaction fees. Thats why we went for buy back instead of dividends.

Becoming a security is what stops it I thought. Then becoming subject to all kinds of regulatory issues. Transaction fees might be an issue also.

The laws just changed on that. It's now a possible route to follow the new legislation and become a security. It's also tax free in Europe so it's actually a good time and legally the landscape is now in favor of securities on Bitshares.

While I'm not a lawyer and don't know all the paperwork, I know it is now possible to start down that path. Equity crowd funding is now realistic. Although in the case of Metaexchange it might not actually be desirable because that is an all crypto exchange.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19607.0.html

[luckybit]

So Bond markets is our answer?

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?

Nothing.  What stops a UIA from not even looking like a UIA and paying 'rewards points' to customers?

And that is what we need. People want financial independence. Freedom is a vague concept while financial independence is practical, you can touch it, it is quantifiable, it's real.

[luckybit]

Transaction fees. Thats why we went for buy back instead of dividends.

Buyback still is fine but if transactions fees are an issue then how will the bond market work?

[James212]

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I'll have to disagree here. While think freedom is really important, I'll have to accept the fact that most people don't care about it.

Of course Bitshares has to be "freedom compatible", otherwise it won't be useful and wont' revolutionize anything. But using freedom as a main marketing point is just waste of time.

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).

  .

"Freedom" , a great goal, but a very very bad marketing ploy.   Bitshares needs a heavy weight marketing team at the level of our great heavy weight dev team.

[Akado]

5-10% annual yield is the best marketing Bitshares 2.0 can have. Find some Bitasset which is giving 5-10% annual yield or interest and Bitshares will become trivially easy to market at that point. Simply set up a blog showing step by step how you're gaining 5-10% in annual yield through Bitshares in a way which is of low risk and suddenly millions of dollars will flow into Bitshares.

 

Best incentive for people to hold bitAssets. People go wherever there's free money.

[Thom]

Yes, I agree. For merchants it is a big deal.
But for me, the consumer, only the freedom part is the big deal.

And that is not bad news. If only 3-5% of online consumers do care about freedom - we are in a big business. Much bigger than bitcoin is now.

I agree, the freedom part is important.

but for me as consumer it's far more interesting to save 5-10% on a product.

You're not interested in equity crowd funding? In achieving financial independence for yourself and your family?

If you cannot sustain yourself without employment then you're not financially independent. If you're able to get a few thousand $ a month from the blockchain then you're financially independent. Bitshares is the one blockchain which can offer this as a feature, the feature is the ability to achieve financial independence indirectly, not through features of Bitshares or the Bitshares price rise, but through holding the proper portfolio of UIAs, private assets, smart coins, bonds, etc, or by being a referrer, a witness, etc.

As you see, the people who work hard, or who work smart, or who invest wisely, can have a chance to achieve the new American dream of financial independence facilitated by blockchain technology. Bitshares should be marketed to people who want to be digital nomads, who want financial independence, who want to work directly for a blockchain.

Avoid politics, avoid vague words like freedom, avoid dividing people by talking about libertarian ideals, or crypto-anarchism, or Bytemasters master plan. People want to achieve similar goals, we all have similar dreams, but we all come from different backgrounds, different ideological outlooks, different philosophy on life, and we should avoid that which can divide people in marketing and put only what can bring people together.

Financial independence is something every reasonable person should want and we just have to show reasonable people how they can achieve financial independence through Bitshares, with some examples of people who are working at achieving it. Maybe someone should set up blogs showing how they invest through Bitshares and share their success. This way you market Bitshares to the people who want financial independence but who never thought it was possible to achieve through blockchains.

Wow... rant well stated! 

I completely agree with BCL and luckybit. That was articulated very well, and I will think about it the next time I'm inclined to spout off with my philosophical perspective. As usual luckybit, you make me think! 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?

Transaction fees. Thats why we went for buy back instead of dividends.
[/quote]

Becoming a security is what stops it I thought. Then becoming subject to all kinds of regulatory issues. Transaction fees might be an issue also.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Yes, I agree. For merchants it is a big deal.
But for me, the consumer, only the freedom part is the big deal.

And that is not bad news. If only 3-5% of online consumers do care about freedom - we are in a big business. Much bigger than bitcoin is now.

I agree, the freedom part is important.

but for me as consumer it's far more interesting to save 5-10% on a product.

You're not interested in equity crowd funding? In achieving financial independence for yourself and your family?

If you cannot sustain yourself without employment then you're not financially independent. If you're able to get a few thousand $ a month from the blockchain then you're financially independent. Bitshares is the one blockchain which can offer this as a feature, the feature is the ability to achieve financial independence indirectly, not through features of Bitshares or the Bitshares price rise, but through holding the proper portfolio of UIAs, private assets, smart coins, bonds, etc, or by being a referrer, a witness, etc.

As you see, the people who work hard, or who work smart, or who invest wisely, can have a chance to achieve the new American dream of financial independence facilitated by blockchain technology. Bitshares should be marketed to people who want to be digital nomads, who want financial independence, who want to work directly for a blockchain.

Avoid politics, avoid vague words like freedom, avoid dividing people by talking about libertarian ideals, or crypto-anarchism, or Bytemasters master plan. People want to achieve similar goals, we all have similar dreams, but we all come from different backgrounds, different ideological outlooks, different philosophy on life, and we should avoid that which can divide people in marketing and put only what can bring people together.

Financial independence is something every reasonable person should want and we just have to show reasonable people how they can achieve financial independence through Bitshares, with some examples of people who are working at achieving it. Maybe someone should set up blogs showing how they invest through Bitshares and share their success. This way you market Bitshares to the people who want financial independence but who never thought it was possible to achieve through blockchains.

Wow... rant well stated! 

[yvv]

Can somebody issue an asset which is pegged to BTS such that we could short it when the price plummet next time?

[lovejoy]

So Bond markets is our answer?

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?

Nothing.  What stops a UIA from not even looking like a UIA and paying 'rewards points' to customers?

[monsterer]

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?
[/quote]

Transaction fees. Thats why we went for buy back instead of dividends.

[lovejoy]

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).

Lol. Do you honestly think Bitcoin has a monopoly on freedom lovers?  Whatever you define 'freedom lovers' as I have no idea, but i guarantee that libertarians and anarchists comprise a radically small percentage of the global 'freedom lover' population.

Think how many trillions of dollars are floating around between people who still have no idea what crypto is.

You do realize the global economy has virtually no idea that crypro even exists right?  It's not even a blip.

There's quite a bubble here, and it's not an economic one, It's a crypto-fintech thought bubble.

You can sell freedom in a lot of different packages to a lot of different people... Watch any commercial on TV, they are selling freedom in one form or another.  That beer commercial with the summer sun and the pickup trucks?  Freedom lovers.  That coca-cola commercial?  Sexy freedom lovers.  Let's expand our definitions, and our potential audience. We mustn't fall prey to operating within the same narrow confines which created this mess to begin with.  YNTTBP!

[Musewhale]

The reason why this really sucks is because bitcoin is rising so strongly... It makes us feel like idiots because we tried to be the smartest guys in the room and pick an alternative currency because we thought we had an inside track.

When I told my friends and family that I was investing in bitcoin, they thought I was an idiot destined to lose all my money.  I didn't tell them I invested in bitshares, since they don't know the difference.  All they know is it is some digital money.

Now they see bitcoin rising like an absolute monster while getting tons of media attention.  They go to me "Wow! you invest in the bitcoins right?  You must be doing awesome! Tell me more about these things!"

Little do they know that I actually bought into some other thing not bitcoin...  A thing similar but not the same that has lost tremendous value since I bought it.  So here we are.  We were right on the story that crypto would become immensely valuable, but somehow we managed to go broke in the process...That is the ultimate kick in the nuts!

I am happy to see you burned.hahahhaa.
sb.

It's good to see that you can be happy about someting

You guys are really happy.
 

[lil_jay890]

Speaking of equity crowd funding... check out this article.  Everything just got a whole lot easier in the United States.  All we have to do is have the SEC's portals use bitshares as the back end and we are golden.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/02/the-secs-new-685-page-crowdfunding-rules-what-you-need-to-know/?mc_cid=088b36d774&mc_eid=e6fb7875f5