Author Topic: [ANN] GreenPoints buy back. Project canceled  (Read 9710 times)

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Offline btstip

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Offline CRAPCOIN

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Im keeping mine!  pry my greenpoint from my cold dead hands!

#sharebits "fuzzy" 100 CRAPCOIN

Try prying these CRAPCOIN's from your cold dead hands and welcome to the CRAPCOIN hodlers club!
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Offline fuzzy

Im keeping mine!  pry my greenpoint from my cold dead hands!
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Offline tonyk

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Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Tuck Fheman

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This can be read in a very bad way... [no clue if it was intended or not]
although it is a common perception. [fuzzy boy, for example, believes in it, as much as he believes in brownie.pts being actually... good}

No it was not meant in a bad way.  :D I'm simply saying, it was a gift from you to Buck.

Giving or taking gifts back is somewhat frowned upon in our culture. There are even derogatory terms associated with doing so. ;)

Now, if for some reason you really need it back, then I don't think it would be a problem.  Is that the case?

Offline tonyk

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Buy order amount reduced for the lack of purpose. [ i.e. no one wants to sell their Greenies right now.]
 
Once again if the buy order is not enough for what you'd like to sale, just PM it will be increased  the amount for you.


Kind Regards,

TK

Why on Earth would we sell the only thing tonyk has ever given us? =b

This can be read in a very bad way... [no clue if it was intended or not]
although it is a common perception. [fuzzy boy, for example, believes in it, as much as he believes in brownie.pts being actually... good}
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 06:46:30 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Tuck Fheman

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Buy order amount reduced for the lack of purpose. [ i.e. no one wants to sell their Greenies right now.]
 
Once again if the buy order is not enough for what you'd like to sale, just PM it will be increased  the amount for you.


Kind Regards,

TK

Why on Earth would we sell the only thing tonyk has ever given us? =b

Offline tonyk

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Buy order amount reduced for the lack of purpose. [ i.e. no one wants to sell their Greenies right now.]
 
Once again if the buy order is not enough for what you'd like to sale, just PM it will be increased  the amount for you.


Kind Regards,

TK
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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OK
Thanks to everyone here (and or in PM) stating they want to keep their GreenPoint(s) and not sell back.

GreenPoints  are of course still good as a 10% discount coupon on any payment to me, just the main value proposition [the loan thing is gone].

I will keep the  buy order at 1005 BTS /GreenPoint for now. I might reduce it after a while, but if the order is not big enough to sell all the Greenies you wish to sell - just shoot me a PM and I will increase it for you.



Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline xeroc

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Offline cass

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Hey tonyk,

FYI…

I'll keep my 0,625 Greenie, thank you. No need to buy it back as well
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline xeroc

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Is it possible to de-list a UIA or are we stuck with them for eternity?

I'll keep my 1 Greenie, thank you. No need to buy it back.  8)
its a blockchain .. hence: "eternity" :P

Offline donkeypong

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Is it possible to de-list a UIA or are we stuck with them for eternity?

I'll keep my 1 Greenie, thank you. No need to buy it back.  8)

Offline tonyk

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As of this moment this project is canceled!

Not that I do not what to tell you why, just not in the mood of fighting with the mindless fan-boy crowd telling me how I would miss on the next best thing after ice-cream.



All GreenPoints will be bought back as promised at par, with a small premium to compensate for fees incurred.


TK
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline kuro112

1. GreenPoints are now only available at par from the issuer  (par is 1000 BTS/GreenPoint). All yearly bird discounts are gone, in other words.

2. The loan is most like a go!
This means if you get GreenPoints at par you get 10% premium on the loan rate (not that is so bad at 25%/year even without this premium, but still why leave money on the table?)

3. And probably most importantly, in the long run - GreenPoints are a potential share drop target. Not only they themselves are, but the accounts that held them before (this/first) loan is officially announced !!!
This simply means - if you buy GreenPoints now - you  get 10% better rate than the  25% annually on the loan [if you use them for that]  AND your make your account  a sharecrop target as if it held GreenPoints as of the share drop date.


ima buy some, good luck with your stuff tony :)
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Offline tonyk

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1. GreenPoints are now only available at par from the issuer  (par is 1000 BTS/GreenPoint). All early bird discounts are gone, in other words.

2. The loan is most like a go!
This means if you get GreenPoints at par you get 10% premium on the loan rate (not that is so bad at 25%/year even without this premium, but still why leave money on the table?)

3. And probably most importantly, in the long run - GreenPoints are a potential share drop target. Not only they themselves are, but the accounts that held them before (this/first) loan is officially announced !!!
This simply means - if you buy GreenPoints now - you  get 10% better rate than the  25% annually on the loan [if you use them for that]  AND your make your account  a sharecrop target as if it held GreenPoints as of the share drop date.



[edit] spelling... what did you expect?

« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 02:19:35 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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Price updated.
Still a great deal at 985 BTS/GreenPoint (for 1000 BTS/GP par value).

Buy GreenPoints Now
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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OK,
The current offer for GreenPoints will expire at the end of today [Greenwich Time].

Buy GreenPoints Now




Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline pc

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Do you think, there might be  a market for P2P loans...even though banks provide credit for what...75%-90% of their creditworthy customers?

Actually I'm invested in P2P loans on a somewhat popular german platform, and I'll be glad when I finally get out of it. :-/

I know there are people out there willing to pay higher rates just to avoid cutthroat banks. And there are people out there who aren't found credit-worthy by banks, and still they manage to repay their loan. Unfortunately (for P2P investors), a single black sheep will eat up the profit from a busload of honest people. That's why the majority of P2P investors exit with a loss.

But that's getting off-topic...
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Offline tonyk

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1. - Interesting. My attempt was definitely not at too good to be true rate. On the opposite - I was/am striving for a good rate for the lenders, but definitely not too good to be true. What is your estimate of a market rate on  a  loan in crypto backed by nothing more but pure trust alone?

I don't think there really *is* a market for crypto loans backed by trust alone.
But there is a market for loans outside the crypto world, and if you're credit-worthy you can get one for much less than 25%. If you're not - well, that'd be one more reason to not buy LoanT's.

Do you think, there might be  a market for P2P loans...even though banks provide credit for what...75%-90% of their creditworthy customers?


PS
well, my credit is at a healthy 807 :) Totally unrelated to this discussion however.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 09:47:14 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline pc

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1. - Interesting. My attempt was definitely not at too good to be true rate. On the opposite - I was/am striving for a good rate for the lenders, but definitely not too good to be true. What is your estimate of a market rate on  a  loan in crypto backed by nothing more but pure trust alone?

I don't think there really *is* a market for crypto loans backed by trust alone.
But there is a market for loans outside the crypto world, and if you're credit-worthy you can get one for much less than 25%. If you're not - well, that'd be one more reason to not buy LoanT's.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

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Offline tonyk

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GreenPoint available for sale now

Par Value 1GP=1000BTS




An order to sell GreenPoint [GP] has been placed on the BTS DEX.
The first and only chance to buy Green points below par value -From the issuer.

What are green Points? –This is mostly explained in the opining post but quick refreshment.

- GPs are my personal token giving you 10% discount on everything I accept payments for.

-GPs are particularly useful if you intend to buy into the LoanT – the loan I intend to offer. Using GP you get 10% better deal on that loan.

-If for any reason you decide to cash out of the loan above, and want to get first in line -  GreenPoints are  worth 3 times its par value for that purpose.




I do expect the main buyers of the GP, at this point, to be people interested in financing the LoanT loan. In that regard if the loan cannot be financed to any sufficient amount, or is decided to not be launched at all, all GreenPoints bought in the next days (before the loan is officially announced) will be given a chance to recoup their money ( and then some in most cases). This will be done in the following manner  -A buy order will be place so that any such GreenPoint bought, can be sold at 1020 BTS/GP – effectively covering any fees for any purchase bigger than  1 GP.



Current offering will not last long – I do not know if it will be 15 min, couple of hours or a day, but... not for long.  ;)
Buy Here

« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 09:23:58 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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There are two reasons why I wouldn't buy your LoanT's. Just to be clear there, your reputation is not one of them. :-)

1. What I've learned (the hard way) is that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. 25% is way above market rates, it is probably not economically viable and therefore unrealistic.
2. More importantly, you want to take the loan in BTS, which is highly volatile. This turns the whole thing into a lottery in which I could only lose: either BTS drops in value (good for you, bad for me), or BTS rises significantly in value, in which case you'll most likely go broke because you can't repay. Bad for both of us (but worse for me).

Good luck anyway. :-)

Tanks for what I consider the first constructive criticism in this thread.
1. - Interesting. My attempt was definitely not at too good to be true rate. On the opposite - I was/am striving for a good rate for the lenders, but definitely not too good to be true. What is your estimate of a market rate on  a  loan in crypto backed by nothing more but pure trust alone?

2. This assumes I will exit out of BTS. Which I might for a small percent, as far as true exits go[to say USD]. The rest of this 'exits' as much as they happen, will be in projects closely related to BTS and mostly denominated in BTS. And all those will quite likely be offset by getting longer in BTS.


Closely pertaining to both is something I wanted to mention in general in this thread, and not only to you pc.
While remaining in my possession, I will take the full benefits of owning those coins. I in no way promise to share any of the  benefits associated of having them in my account, the same way I do not promise to share the benefits of actively using them. In other words, they are just mine for all practical purposes; In addition I have an obligation to return the  amounts  equal to the received one plus interest on the promised schedule.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline pc

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There are two reasons why I wouldn't buy your LoanT's. Just to be clear there, your reputation is not one of them. :-)

1. What I've learned (the hard way) is that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. 25% is way above market rates, it is probably not economically viable and therefore unrealistic.
2. More importantly, you want to take the loan in BTS, which is highly volatile. This turns the whole thing into a lottery in which I could only lose: either BTS drops in value (good for you, bad for me), or BTS rises significantly in value, in which case you'll most likely go broke because you can't repay. Bad for both of us (but worse for me).

Good luck anyway. :-)
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Offline tonyk

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Yes...I will to the extend that Tuck can get any info on me. :)

I'm waiting on onceuponatime to send me a copy of your DL. ;)

You already posted my photo, so go ahead and image search me :)


Will you be disclosing any personal information (as in full name, address, etc.)?

I have a pic of him, hope it helps! ;)


Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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I'm interested in learning more about the brick and mortar businesses you mentioned.

The first one will be software development, outsourced out of US, of application specific wallets running on top of BTS (and potentially Eth if all goes well with them). The whole point is the end user does not need to know about the specific technology running underneath the surface of their app, website etc. And the potentially first use case is pure P2P lending.   Another wallet is for the second business of mine, for which I cannot say more than - it might be a competitor of  BunkerChain labs, at least to one of their potential solutions:  http://www.bunkerchainlabs.com/solutions/
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Tuck Fheman

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Yes...I will to the extend that Tuck can get any info on me. :)

I'm waiting on onceuponatime to send me a copy of your DL. ;)

Offline carpet ride

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All opinions are my own. Anything said on this forum does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation between myself and anyone else.
Check out my blog: http://CertainAssets.com
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

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I'm interested in learning more about the brick and mortar businesses you mentioned.

Offline Ben Mason

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Very exciting tonyk! What an interesting experiment! I'd be interested in lending you some of the BTS if that works for you. i'm not sure about GreenPoints yet but I think it's great you are experimenting with UIAs.

Your spelling and grammar was almost perfect so you really shouldn't have worried  :D

Offline tonyk

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Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.


Offline tonyk

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Will you be disclosing any personal information (as in full name, address, etc.)?

I have a pic of him, hope it helps! ;)



Yes...I will to the extend that Tuck can get any info on me. :)

On a more serious note @onceuponatime, I have now problem showing you my true identity, drivers license and all, to you personally. and I am not talking about this loan ...just ready to do it if  at anytime you want to know.

.....but in regards to this loan and/or  to any/everybody? the answer is NO.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 07:18:09 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Tuck Fheman

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Will you be disclosing any personal information (as in full name, address, etc.)?

I have a pic of him, hope it helps! ;)


Offline onceuponatime

Will you be disclosing any personal information (as in full name, address, etc.)?

Offline kuro112

« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 07:08:19 am by kuro112 »
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Offline tonyk

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Quote
- The loan will be denominated in BTS.

You misspelled Brownie.PTS  :P

#btstip tonyk 100 TIPSHARES

Don't get him riled up  :P

Tony, I think it is a cool idea.

I strongly considered submitting it to you for review (after all you are the one that said I should have my own token). But then again I thought you will take it as a personal offence to you... somehow. You do with everything I say...  99% of the time me having no clue how so?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:39:36 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline fuzzy

Quote
- The loan will be denominated in BTS.

You misspelled Brownie.PTS  :P

#btstip tonyk 100 TIPSHARES

Don't get him riled up  :P

Tony, I think it is a cool idea. 
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Offline tonyk

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Quote
- The loan will be denominated in BTS.

You misspelled Brownie.PTS  :P

#btstip tonyk 100 TIPSHARES

Response #1 -- I thought it was a bright post, no dark colours needed - black, brown or sad. :)

Response #2 -- And that is the ONLY thing I misspelled ??????
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:19:35 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline btstip

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Hey Tuck Fheman, your tips have been queued to get sent to...
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Tuck Fheman

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Quote
- The loan will be denominated in BTS.

You misspelled Brownie.PTS  :P

#btstip tonyk 100 TIPSHARES

Offline tonyk

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As Ben correctly observed [a few post down the thread] this an experiment, more than anything else.

One of the main triggers for it was  one of the few projects in the BTS sphere that I truly like,  doing quite well financing its operation through BTS (more or less) - METAFEES from MetaExchange.

Definitely on purpose, this proposal has the same  or slightly better risk profile*, while offering far better direct return (25% as opposed to 10-15%(hopefully) and even better potential return (if anything goes at least partly as planed )

Waiting to see how all this plays out.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 08:48:33 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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Dec 07, 2015

GreenPoint s are what have always been - no promise token, worth only a coupon (10% discount) on any of my services.

The holder accounts as of this moment have already qualified for any share drop (Highly unlikely but yes, if you account had any Greenpoint in the last 24 h before this post, you are in)

In the future I might not be checking my PM or this thread very often... so if you do not sell now... just place an sell order at 1005.00 BTS/GP and I will buy them back as soon as I see the order.(might be weeks if you do not act in the next 7-10 days)

Thanks, everyone.
 

#################
GreenPoint are being bought  back. The  Project is canceled.

Go to the GreenPoint /BTS market in the BTS DEX and get your money back. Price is slightly above par, i.e. little bit over 1000 BTS/GreenPoint.

Thanks.

TK

** Anyone particularly sensitive to bad English grammar, spelling and things of that nature, should give up right now and save herself the trouble and effort of continuing!


As the tradition of BTS goes, we are making pre-announcement of the announcement 
So this is more or less something for review and input from the community [The harsher the better! – The moto is “if you can beat tonyk in that regard – just go for it!”] , before the official announcement. Other than that, I envision it as a somewhat of a marketing research before the official thing.



1.  The first personal loan on the  BTS blockchain



I intend to be the first person to take a personal loan on the BTS platform :
– The purpose of the loan (as in money obtained) is well… personal. But I do intend to share some of the ideas what the money will be used for [some more on it later in p.2 - the greenies part].  Some smaller percentage will definitely go into trading on the BTS DEX, will be invested in a project or few on the DEX exchange, and will be used for trading BTS on centralized exchanges.

- An additional goal by trying to take this loan is too see what is the interest in such a ‘product’.  Namely P2P loans - granted without advertising outside of the community and only getting info on the people’s willingness to lend [and not borrow].

- It will be a personal loan, so the only thing backing the loan is street credit [or lack thereof] . In particular the street credit I personally have around here, or don’t.

- The loan will be denominated in BTS. The reasons are two fold –One,  I do believe people in this community do not want to  lend money in say bitUSD and lose on the possible  appreciation of BTS during the duration of the loan, even for a generally good return.  The second one is … well, the rate I am about to offer is orders of magnitude more than what I can get on fiat USD… Granted with my actual credit not the street one, but still.

- The duration of the loan I am currently considering is 12 [or 18mo] – input on that is welcomed as well.
- The interest rate - 25% per annum.
- The loan amount – up to the equivalent of 15K-30K USD.

Other info:
- The proposed loan will have a clause that if a certain percent of  the loan financing  is not achieved, the loan will be considered not started and  canceled, all money received, will be returned to the would be lenders immediately, generally with no or small return, compensating them for fees inured.

- This loan will have the option to be prepaid before the loan period has passed. [In other words this will be a loan with no pre-payment penalty] – In this and all other regards, I will try to make all the terms of this loan as close as possible to the regular personal loans and / or P2P loans.  Some limitations and or inconveniences on that are expected, due to the blockchain and/or BTS DEX limitations.

Technical details:
This is how I see it working as of now. This is not final and any input here will be highly appreciated!!!
* The following example uses 12 mo., 1.2 Mil BTS loan with an interest rate of 26% (annual rate);  an IOU [called LoanT]  worth 1000 BTS face value (also referred as at par, later on).

 
- A certain amount of LoanT will be issued. The amount will be equal to the max loan amount sought. In this example this means 1200 LoanT issuance.

- These IOUs will be offered at par for sell for say 7 days. A sell order for 1200 loanTs will be placed in the DEX @ 1000 BTS pet LoanT.
After those 7 days, if enough loanTs are sold, the loan will be considered “originated” and regular repayments of the loan will start.[If the loan is not “originated”, an attempt will be made so that all would be lenders  be compensated for the  fees  incurred ,plus with something extra for the effort]
- Each week during the next 52 weeks, a minimum of 1/52 of all of the loanTs sold will be bought back at price equal the par value, plus the interest on those loanTs up to that moment:
    in week# 1 min 23.08 loanT will be bought (or attempted to be)  @  1005 BTS; [1000 BTS par value + 1/52*26% interest].
     in week# 2 min 23.08 loanT will be bought (or attempted to be bought)  @ 1010 BTS; [1000 BTS par value + 2/52*26% interest].
     In week 3 the same and so on till week 52.

- The buyback will be achieved by placing a market buy order with the price specified [and announced in advance even though the price is trivial to calculate] for the amount specified [aka @1005 BTS/LoanT for week one] ; alternative ways to sell the loanTs, for the convenience of the landers, are in the works as well  - any of those method  -the basic or the alternatives per borrowers discretion will be enough to satisfy the promise of regular minimal weekly repayment of the loan .

That is all about it about “ the loan”, I think.
If I have forgotten something feel free to ask!



2.0 GreenPoints – “Your green light to life”



You have probably guessed it by now,  GreenPoints  are my personal tokens. For the most parts they are no obligation, no promise tokens. The only promise I do make is if/when one uses them as a coupon for a service I might offer in the future or as a payments to me – In such cases I do promise to make a 10 % discount on any payment denominated in BTS [or denominated in anything else if we can agree on fair said thing/BTS price]. Example, say I am offering ‘v 0.x.x wallet recovery services at 1000 BTS/h. Paying me GPs equivalent to 900BTS /h will be fulfilling your promise to pay @ 1000 BTS/h, even if did not specify taking GreenPoins as a payment  and or offering discount for taking them.
Other distinctions between GreenPoints [ GP], and other noticeable UIA is my take on life. And my tokens have similar behavior as a consequence of it – First, I do try for the positive attitude even it is not always obvious – Instead of “karma is a bitch”, I try to think about life as a “green light to do great things”. Also I do not limit GP to just people that I like. Even further,  I have no need anyone showing me docile behavior in order to consider him/her worthy of GreenPoints. To say nothing about  me not even considering  I can block someone’s account and/or take the GPs back for not showing enough obedience.

Other thing that I will try my best to do [no promises here] for GP is to put as much as possible real value behind GreenPoints. Some of the details follow.

Some of the plans I (and we) have are somewhat clear from the first part of this post.    It will be a software we produce (wallet of kinds) specifically tailored towards giving a chance to everyone to use BTS as a P2P lending /borrowing tool. And what is best, imho, BTS can do that without any particular company or structure organizing the process. There is also one more BTS related project I am actively pursuing, besides the P2P lending. Those are plans that might or might not come to fruition. But if they do I promise to make my best, so that GreenPoint holders are on the top of the list, in receiving benefits.  [It might not be a sharedrop exactly, as the current plans are for brick and mortar ventures, but I hope the rewards will be well worth it, and even better than the share drop value].
Actually, I am willing to go a step further – Not only current GP holders, but also account who have a  GP holding  as of the day before announcing the actual issuance of the loan described above], will be the main “beneficiaries”.

Other benefits of GS – not a promise once again, but something I totally plan on doing [in connection with the personal loan described in point  1]

– The loanTs will be offered to GP holders at 900 BTS equivalent  in GPs/LoanT ,not at 1000 BTS/LoanT  … but you probable expected this by now, the 10% discount on anything I am selling remember?

-For the convenience of the lenders we would offer a second way to repurchase the loanTs (i.e. repay the loan). The idea is this to be done by sending the loanTs to special account at any point in time.  A bit of  sidetrack here – In order to get priority in the repurchase in the open market in the DEX, the party willing to sell its LoanTs fast must place an order slightly below the max expected return.  Let’s say in week one  - they will have to put a  buy LoanT @ 1004.95 instead of the max offered that week @1005 BTS/loanT. Much the same way, we envision the special account to work. One sends  say 100 loanT during  week  #1 to that account. In order to gain priority he/she as well send 505 BTS [ending at the same discount as if they placed in the DEX a market order @ 1004.95]. This all well and good, only for people that send GP instead of BTS for that purpose  1GP worth of value, will have 3x weight compared to sending BTS.



PS
Other than asking anything related to this post,  and or comments, suggestion, criticism and such, please also state if you are interested in buying GreenPoints at par.  [Current idea is to set the par @ 1000BTS per 1 GreenPoint ]. Simple ‘interested in  buying GP’ will suffice. If we see enough interest we will indeed list them for sale before doing anything else. Ohh and one more last promise, amongst the many non-promises. If we do end up listing the GreenPoints and we do  not proceeding  with any of the other plans (loan and stuff) I will buy Those GreenPoints  back at par plus 2 * the BTS order fee per every  1000 of BTS equivalent. [aka you will be compensated for all fees with a min. of 1000 purchase, and make something extra BTS for bigger GP buys.]


Cheer,  to all that got so far down the text, with no cheating.

Yours Truly,
TonyK



« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 05:26:47 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.