First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal

[bytemaster]

I for one feel like a proud papa to see my baby grow up and start working without me.

I think that it is great that these changes can be made without me.  I will sit this round out because I would rather prove things are decentralized than overrule the committee decisions with my influence.

[Akado]

I think the current 1.10.15 proposal is a good compromise. It doesn't solve all the problems, but it is a start.

Lowering the account creation fee back to 95BTS like it was originally voted by the community is a good thing.
Many (asian) people want to lower the transaction fee to <5 BTS, and the (western) crowd is against it because it hurts the referral program. Lowering it by 25% is a compromise.
Fav has encountered problems with not receiving lifetime upgrade referral fees, so we're setting the scale to 1 in an attempt to fix exactly that issue.

I agree communication could have been better.

I have voted for this proposal.

Other than that, I hope that these commitee proposals will slow down a bit in the future, it felt rushed this time. The proposal was created within an hour and was bugged. Someone from the team needs to announce these changes before hand to the community and get feedback. The thing is that not everyone can be pleased and people will ALWAYS disagree.

Well what are the chinese planing to do with those 5 BTS fees? Do they even have a plan? Will they provide liquidity and become market makers? Are they ready to start doing so as soon as the fee is lowered? I see them doing demands with no justification.

If they have 20 bots ready to go and capital to inject, I would say go ahead even though I wouldn't agree with 5. But they obviously don't. They're just asking for lower fees as a whim.

[mindphlux]

I think the current 1.10.15 proposal is a good compromise. It doesn't solve all the problems, but it is a start.

Lowering the account creation fee back to 95BTS like it was originally voted by the community is a good thing.
Many (asian) people want to lower the transaction fee to <5 BTS, and the (western) crowd is against it because it hurts the referral program. Lowering it by 25% is a compromise.
Fav has encountered problems with not receiving lifetime upgrade referral fees, so we're setting the scale to 1 in an attempt to fix exactly that issue.

I agree communication could have been better.

I have voted for this proposal.

Other than that, I hope that these commitee proposals will slow down a bit in the future, it felt rushed this time. The proposal was created within an hour and was bugged. Someone from the team needs to announce these changes before hand to the community and get feedback. The thing is that not everyone can be pleased and people will ALWAYS disagree.

[puppies]

There seems to be some confusion between what community members can do, and what requires a worker proposal and a change in the code. 

People also seem to be very upset that this proposal does not solve all of their problems with bts.  I haven't had the time to look at it with a fine tooth comb, and I am not currently a committee member, so it doesn't really matter too much, but here is my thinking regarding this proposal.

There appears to be a bug in referral income with a scale greater than 1. 

190BTS to create an account is too high, and vests for too long.  Openledger is often running out of faucet funds.

40bts vs 30bts will likely be largely revenue neutral for referrers.

This proposal fixes the scale of fees (we launched with a scale of 1, and that scale was doubled by BM when he changed transfer fee from 20 to 40 bts)  and sets the account creation fee to 95bts, where it was intended to be.  (because we were getting spammed, remember that)  and we get the support of the low fee proponents by reducing the transfer fee to only 30bts.

This is not an attempt to fix all fee problems with bts.  this is not the final end all solution for bts fees.  This is a single proposal that does only 3 things.

Fixes fee scale.
changes account creation fee to 95bts
changes transfer fee to 30bts.

If you would like to see other changes that is great, and we can all discuss that.  If you are opposed to any of these changes, a clear explanation of what you are opposed to and why you are opposed to it would be appreciated. 

I am of the opinion that we should keep transfer fees above 20bts (the price that we launched at).  I believe that we need to give businesses that will rely on this transfer fee the chance to be built.  I am supportive of a change to 30bts, because it is still higher than what we launched at, and I think we need to show the chinese community that we are listening to them, and care about what they think, while still maintaining a revenue stream for businesses hoping to build upon bitshares.  Ultimately I think the fee just needs to be high enough to promote lifetime membership signups.  I am not of the opinion that we should attempt to fix our fees to a fiat price.  I am of course willing to listen to any reasonable arguments.

Tony.

This was my first post in this thread, and I think it clearly showed my intention to vote for
1) a scale of 1.0(it seems as if the issue we were attempting to fix was due to the faucet, and not the fee scale, although changing the fee scale causes no harm)
2) change the account creation fee to  95bts.
3) change the transfer fee to 30bts.


This is ultimately what I voted for when I added my approval to 1.10.15.  I think this was the right thing to vote for, but would appreciate feedback on a better way to have communicated this.

Xeldal, and Tony, I really appreciate your feedback.  I hope it is clear that I have great respect for your opinion.  I have a lot of respect for both of you, and hope that you will help improve the responsiveness of the committee members.  Although I hope that I will not be one of them.

Specifically what level of communication would you expect prior to creating a proposal, and what level of communication would you expect prior to voting on a proposal?

I am working a lot right now, and haven't had the time to read all the forum posts.  I apologize if this has been dealt with in other threads. 

[sittingduck]

Regardless the proposed fees I'm glad to see the process working

[tonyk]

I never voted for 1.10.14.  When I looked into it there seemed to be some issues, and those issues were verified by others.  When 1.10.15 was created I didn't repost, since 1.10.15 did exactly what I had stated 1.10.14 was supposed to do.  I verified that 1.10.15 did what I had stated I intended to do, and added my approval. 

I don't understand why anyone is angry about 1.10.14 and 1.10.15.  I seriously am not trying to be obtuse. I do not understand and would appreciate an explanation.

Feel free to unvote dele-puppy as a committee member.  I do not want to be a committee member, and am doing this short term until someone else can take my place.  If you feel that you could do a better job, please create a committee member, and state your case.  You will probably have my vote.

well mostly what Xeldal said just in a few less words....

I really do not care what the proposal was [in this particular case], for the most part although I have an issue or two that was rushed/not addressed at all...

The only question is:

Did you post before voting what you posted in the quoted post. If yes link?...maybe it was just me missing it.

[Xeldal]

I never voted for 1.10.14.  When I looked into it there seemed to be some issues, and those issues were verified by others.  When 1.10.15 was created I didn't repost, since 1.10.15 did exactly what I had stated 1.10.14 was supposed to do.  I verified that 1.10.15 did what I had stated I intended to do, and added my approval. 

I don't understand why anyone is angry about 1.10.14 and 1.10.15.  I seriously am not trying to be obtuse. I do not understand and would appreciate an explanation.

Feel free to unvote dele-puppy as a committee member.  I do not want to be a committee member, and am doing this short term until someone else can take my place.  If you feel that you could do a better job, please create a committee member, and state your case.  You will probably have my vote.

Thanks puppies.  I appreciate you stepping up and filling the void.

My grievance with this situation is mostly to do with a lack communication, lack of preparation, lack of justification for changes, no pre-announcement discussion.   The proposal had errors and I think the parameters were not even fully understood.  It all seemed rushed, arbitrary, and whimsical.   As far as I know it was only a conversation of 3 or 4 of the 11 committee seats.  I understand BM is most of those but for good reason, and I would have thought the idea would have at least crossed his desk for a comment or suggestion. 

I didn't like reading the post basically saying 'we're changing some stuff,  it goes into effect tomorrow, here's a link, cya'
then that proposal dies and there's no mention of a new one.  So noone knows unless they specifically search for it.  and its set to take place in less than 24 hours.

My pulling my vote has less to do with the content of the changes, although I do have objections, and more to do with the manner in which it was done.   

Honestly I don't know how the committee ideally should do things and in what manner etc., so I don't really blame or fault anyone here.  (this, i think is why i didn't post earlier)  but I think we will figure it out.

I hope not to discourage anyone from continuing with their committee seat, its not a desirable position to hold but it is needed.  We just need to slow down and do things properly.  Whatever that means. 

[puppies]

I never voted for 1.10.14.  When I looked into it there seemed to be some issues, and those issues were verified by others.  When 1.10.15 was created I didn't repost, since 1.10.15 did exactly what I had stated 1.10.14 was supposed to do.  I verified that 1.10.15 did what I had stated I intended to do, and added my approval. 

I don't understand why anyone is angry about 1.10.14 and 1.10.15.  I seriously am not trying to be obtuse. I do not understand and would appreciate an explanation.

Feel free to unvote dele-puppy as a committee member.  I do not want to be a committee member, and am doing this short term until someone else can take my place.  If you feel that you could do a better job, please create a committee member, and state your case.  You will probably have my vote.

[tonyk]

I've been fuming all day, wrote up 4 or 5 scathing posts but I can't bring myself to post any of them, as I can't calm down enough to know they are rational and founded.

You sound like a candidate for : Tuck & Tony's Complaint Symposium

Ticket pricing starts at 100 bitUSD and includes the following classes ...

     - How To Alienate Yourself From 99% of the Forum in 5 Post or Less.
     - How To Cope with a 750,000 BTS Loss Due to No Fault of Your Own.
     - Using Alcohol and Drugs To Fight the Rage.
     - 5 Reasons Why Everyone Is Ignoring Me.
     - Lunch Break (The Standard 2.5 Hours).
     - How To Be Treated Like an Imaginary User.
     - Beginner Emoticons 101 - How to Mask Your Rage and Save Your Reputation.
     - Expert Emoticons 101 - Fuck My Reputation!
     - Brownie.PTS? Brownie.PTS? We're Talking about Brownie.PTS?!

If you'd like to sign up, just pm one of us and we'll save you a seat. Tickets can be paid for at the event. Seating is limited, so act now!

and  we can through  a free bonus nightly course!

-Building your willingness to lose 750K more BTS...just so you can read Tuck's post...
I for sure have subscribed and A-ced that one, now.

PS
You ARE ridiculously funny!
+ 1

[Xeldal]

I've been fuming all day, wrote up 4 or 5 scathing posts but I can't bring myself to post any of them, as I can't calm down enough to know they are rational and founded.

You sound like a candidate for : Tuck & Tony's Complaint Symposium

Ticket pricing starts at 100 bitUSD and includes the following classes ...

     - How To Alienate Yourself From 99% of the Forum in 5 Post or Less.
     - How To Cope with a 750,000 BTS Loss Due to No Fault of Your Own.
     - Using Alcohol and Drugs To Fight the Rage.
     - 5 Reasons Why Everyone Is Ignoring Me.
     - Lunch Break (The Standard 2.5 Hours).
     - How To Be Treated Like an Imaginary User.
     - Beginner Emoticons 101 - How to Mask Your Rage and Save Your Reputation.
     - Expert Emoticons 101 - Fuck My Reputation!
     - Brownie.PTS? Brownie.PTS? We're Talking about Brownie.PTS?!

If you'd like to sign up, just pm one of us and we'll save you a seat. Tickets can be paid for at the event. Seating is limited, so act now!

Hilarious. 
That's a nice curriculum.  I may need to attend some of those. 

[clayop]

So is 1.10.15 the new 1.10.14  and did anyone mention this anywhere? or is this just how we can expect the committee to operate?

http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.15

In 1.10.14 we made some mistakes, so that needed to fix them in 1.10.15. Sorry for late response.

[Tuck Fheman]

I've been fuming all day, wrote up 4 or 5 scathing posts but I can't bring myself to post any of them, as I can't calm down enough to know they are rational and founded.

You sound like a candidate for : Tuck & Tony's Complaint Symposium

Ticket pricing starts at 100 bitUSD and includes the following classes ...

     - How To Alienate Yourself From 99% of the Forum in 5 Post or Less.
     - How To Cope with a 750,000 BTS Loss Due to No Fault of Your Own.
     - Using Alcohol and Drugs To Fight the Rage.
     - 5 Reasons Why Everyone Is Ignoring Me.
     - Lunch Break (The Standard 2.5 Hours).
     - How To Be Treated Like an Imaginary User.
     - Beginner Emoticons 101 - How to Mask Your Rage and Save Your Reputation.
     - Expert Emoticons 101 - Fuck My Reputation!
     - Brownie.PTS? Brownie.PTS? We're Talking about Brownie.PTS?!

If you'd like to sign up, just pm one of us and we'll save you a seat. Tickets can be paid for at the event. Seating is limited, so act now!

[Xeldal]

So is 1.10.15 the new 1.10.14  and did anyone mention this anywhere? or is this just how we can expect the committee to operate?

http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.15

watching it the whole day and waiting for somebody else to ask... real sad day indeed -  1st Having to take my vote off ALL current non-init committee members...2nd BM screwing the account that created Greenies. [Greenie's they way brownies should have been]

Same here, I'm not voting for any of these committee members currently.   I've been fuming all day, wrote up 4 or 5 scathing posts but I can't bring myself to post any of them, as I can't calm down enough to know they are rational and founded.  I may just need to take a break.

The referral situation is a bit troubling, and unfortunate.  At least an attempt to make it right is being made,  but its a bit discouraging non the less.  I can't imagine Fav being too happy about it.

[tonyk]

So is 1.10.15 the new 1.10.14  and did anyone mention this anywhere? or is this just how we can expect the committee to operate?

http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.15

watching it the whole day and waiting for somebody else to ask... real sad day indeed -  1st Having to take my vote off ALL current non-init committee members...2nd BM screwing the account that created Greenies. [Greenie's they way brownies should have been]

[Xeldal]

So is 1.10.15 the new 1.10.14  and did anyone mention this anywhere? or is this just how we can expect the committee to operate?

http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.15