Author Topic: Anyone else noticed that the STEALTH worker proposal is already "approved"?  (Read 17202 times)

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Offline Bhuz

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He gets to keep whatever tiny earnings there may be as a bonus for writing a successful proposal.

OT: The funny thing is that, that "tiny" earning is like 60% more of what a witness get in an entire month xD
Good point .. but then on the other hand, I provide the witnesses with useful tools and advice and never charged anyone for it ..

My OT was not about you deserving or not deserving a compensation for your work.
It was just a funny way to point out that witnesses really get tiny earnings as Stan said (without taking in consideration rent cost and man hours), but noone cares.

Back InTopic: I voted for your worker proposal as soon as I saw it, I think this says it all about my thoughts on you deserving a pay

Edit: with "your worker proposal" i mean "Documentation/Technical Support/Python+UI Development (1.14.17)"
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 09:53:47 am by Bhuz »

Offline abit

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He gets to keep whatever tiny earnings there may be as a bonus for writing a successful proposal.

OT: The funny thing is that, that "tiny" earning is like 60% more of what a witness get in an entire month xD
Good point .. but then on the other hand, I provide the witnesses with useful tools and advice and never charged anyone for it ..
It's included in another worker proposal, isn't it?
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Offline xeroc

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He gets to keep whatever tiny earnings there may be as a bonus for writing a successful proposal.

OT: The funny thing is that, that "tiny" earning is like 60% more of what a witness get in an entire month xD
Good point .. but then on the other hand, I provide the witnesses with useful tools and advice and never charged anyone for it ..

Offline cass

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Total Masternodes: 3442 = 3439 actives + 3 inactives [3434 unique IPs] (Last refresh: Sun Dec 20 2015 23:48:04)

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Offline btswildpig

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Where Stealth could effect the referral programme is the price point, STEALTH will charge $0.5 where DASH charges less than $0.01 and is also already tied into numerous payment processors https://www.dash.org/payment-processors/

So if customers don't like paying 50X more than competitors for privacy and STEALTH doesn't lower the fee, BTS may lose business on other products and services and thus cost referrers & BTS shareholders money.
But DASH doesn't offer price-stable coins, does it?

Dash offers a lot of things , including instant transaction through Master nodes who needs to put down a lot of Dash deposit just to be one .  (I've seen the video , less than a sec . It's not centralized method . )
I still don't get how it does that . Last time I heard , there are thousands of such master nodes already .
Could someone please check ?
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Where Stealth could effect the referral programme is the price point, STEALTH will charge $0.5 where DASH charges less than $0.01 and is also already tied into numerous payment processors https://www.dash.org/payment-processors/

So if customers don't like paying 50X more than competitors for privacy and STEALTH doesn't lower the fee, BTS may lose business on other products and services and thus cost referrers & BTS shareholders money.
But DASH doesn't offer price-stable coins, does it?

 +5% Yes that's the main product imo (+ some others) that will hopefully create demand & justify a premium for BTS STEALTH. 

However Smartcoins still need a few more complimentary features and liquidity incentives added which will likely only be done after Stealth. So you'll be waiting a few months for Stealth and then another few months for the developments that will create the demand for Stealth.

So personally I would prioritize BitAsset liquidity measures first. Some have said that other cool features could be developed via FBA's but only once privacy/Stealth is in place,  so that could be an argument for making Stealth first but I still think BTS will struggle price wise for the next 2-4 months doing the development in that order.

Edit, not that I'm sold that MAKER is the best method to achieve liquidity, sittingduck says both could be developed concurrently.

Shareholders are not paying for anything else first.  Bid up the MAKER asset and create a maker worker to see where that goes.  Both can be done at the same time because they require different skills.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 06:08:50 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Bhuz

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He gets to keep whatever tiny earnings there may be as a bonus for writing a successful proposal.

OT: The funny thing is that, that "tiny" earning is like 60% more of what a witness get in an entire month xD

jakub

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Where Stealth could effect the referral programme is the price point, STEALTH will charge $0.5 where DASH charges less than $0.01 and is also already tied into numerous payment processors https://www.dash.org/payment-processors/

So if customers don't like paying 50X more than competitors for privacy and STEALTH doesn't lower the fee, BTS may lose business on other products and services and thus cost referrers & BTS shareholders money.
But DASH doesn't offer price-stable coins, does it?

Offline Empirical1.2

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You will never be able to vote with a stealth system. That is kind of the whole point of confidential transactions you don't know how much money everyone has. Voting was the primary way BTS one was compromised.  This does not affect the referral program because stealth transfers do not participate in the referral program because we don't know who is transferring to whom.
It might not matter much, but if you referred a user and they made stealth transaction, you do not earn referral fees on that transaction. So effectively it does affect the referral program.

In terms of the referral programme, I think it's a net gain when combined with other products & services as it make BTS as a whole is more sell-able so you'll probably generate more referrals & make income on their regular transactions.

Atm BTS doesn't really have any amazing products/USP so referring isn't easy.

Where Stealth could effect the referral programme is the price point, STEALTH will charge $0.5 where DASH charges less than $0.01 and is also already tied into numerous payment processors https://www.dash.org/payment-processors/

So if customers don't like paying 50X more than competitors for privacy and STEALTH doesn't lower the fee, BTS may lose business on other products and services and thus cost referrers & BTS shareholders money.

STEALTH will obviously want to maximise profit, so would likely consider lowering their price if demand was stagnant after 3-4 months.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline mint chocolate chip

You will never be able to vote with a stealth system. That is kind of the whole point of confidential transactions you don't know how much money everyone has. Voting was the primary way BTS one was compromised.  This does not affect the referral program because stealth transfers do not participate in the referral program because we don't know who is transferring to whom.
It might not matter much, but if you referred a user and they made stealth transaction, you do not earn referral fees on that transaction. So effectively it does affect the referral program.

Offline sittingduck

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You will never be able to vote with a stealth system. That is kind of the whole point of confidential transactions you don't know how much money everyone has. Voting was the primary way BTS one was compromised.  This does not affect the referral program because stealth transfers do not participate in the referral program because we don't know who is transferring to whom. 

Offline Stan

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IF (just assume) the worker is voted out before Jan 1, will you(or CNX) pay xeroc 300$ for created that work proposal, or BTS holders pay him fully via dilution, or xeroc burn the fund which is already paid to him? If it's voted in, will you charge BTS holders $1000 more or $700 more for implement the hard fork? You put xeroc at a strange position.

He gets compensated in other ways for doing the work.  He gets to keep whatever tiny earnings there may be as a bonus for writing a successful proposal.
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Offline abit

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As I said I'm not too against Stealth given the money is on the table and I'm not overly exposed to BTS currently, but without incentives for voting or keeping BTS off the exchanges it's likely voting turnout may always be fairly low, allowing bad decisions to be pushed through with fairly little stake even if the majority don't agree.

Non sequitur.

Lack of easy Stealth is probably one of the biggest reasons people aren't willing to vote.
Adding new FBAs  is adding reasons to keep BTS off the exchanges as is OpenLedger.
Total participation being low means serious resistance is easy to mount.
And if you don't have enough BTS off outside exchanges right now to vote 'no' with, why should your opinion count?

:)
Believe me, the $45000 work (only for GUI) won't bring new "big" users right away, you'll ask for more money. Because ..
1. current "stealth" implementation is neither unlinkable nor untraceable, thus is unusable imho
2. currently it's unable to vote with "stealth" fund
3. currently it's unable to bid with "stealth" fund

At that time they will face a choice:

1.  Honor the vote at the time the decision to spend money was made, or
2.  Honor the vote at the time the product is delivered (if it has changed in the mean time).

Acting against the wishes of Vote 2 could get them fired if enough people disagree with them keeping the implied commitment of Vote 1.

Acting against the wishes of Vote 1 means that BitShares gets a reputation for reneging on a prior vote upon which an entrepreneur has relied.

That could have a chilling effect on BitShares ability to attract more entrepreneurs.

This means that even if some voters have changed their minds about STEALTH by installation time, they might NOT decide to fire otherwise faithful witnesses for deciding to obey Vote 1 in order to preserve BitShares' reputation in future deals.

Please explain where your think the above process could be improved, given the tools available at this time.
Make a decision (develop the hard fork or not) based on the result of a one-day poll makes much sense?

Where did you get the one day poll?  Voting continues until Jan 1 as I understand the plan.  No?

Quote
Roadmap

Feedback and discussion of this thread: December 8 to December 10, 2015
Presentation of an amended Cryptonomex Worker Proposal: Dec 11, 2015 This worker proposal should include Milestones of what is intended to be accomplished by the end of week 1, week 2, week 3, week 4 and week 5 so that the Community can follow progress in the github.
Voting for Worker Proposal: Dec 11 to January 1, 2016
onceuponatime forwards $45,000 to Cryptonomex: Jan.2, 2016
Cryptonomex does the development and testing of the feature: (4 to 6 weeks)
Hard fork for implementation of the feature: Monday Feb, 15th
IF (just assume) the worker is voted out before Jan 1, will you(or CNX) pay xeroc 300$ for created that work proposal, or BTS holders pay him fully via dilution, or xeroc burn the fund which is already paid to him? If it's voted in, will you charge BTS holders $1000 more or $700 more for implement the hard fork? You put xeroc at a strange position.
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Offline btswildpig

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这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline tonyk

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There are features that Cryptonomex wants to implement where privacy is extremely important and there are lots of people that have avoided importing their balances from BitShares 1.0 because of the lack of privacy. Anyone who's got millions of BitShares cares about privacy. So the privacy feature is something that I think is very important and it's actually a barrier to adoption by a lot of people, particularly people with money. It's something we need and it's something that Cryptonomex has already invested the time in to implement at the blockchain level. This proposal helps fund Cryptonomex and it keeps all the guys employed with the revenue they need to do things. So it's a critical proposal in several different ways.

=)

In the mean time I personally would have been more concerned with *asshole1* who took 2000 BTS of yours just for the fun of it last night... I have no clue why did he spared your other milking cow (percent)? Maybe his bot just got over fed and needed a rest/sleep....

Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.