Author Topic: New Stealth Transfer Worker ($1000)  (Read 64704 times)

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Offline topcandle


This could be a potential new source of funding for Bitshares. 

This is not potential way of funding. This is the only way of funding, the other thing is just inflating the supply. It can be done but the payout must be bigger and the vesting longer - 3 years min.

On this note I like the funding model a lot..... BUT I am with the rest who think that changing the priority of what is important is big no No.

xeroc, fav and those 2 guys


1. Trading fee refunding proposal
2. Tading referral fee
3. Fix the API for bots and trading platforms

This stealth thing seems like it's going to take a lot longer to do than any of the above.  Please do 1-3 first and then focus on something different like this stealth transfer proposal.

I agree. Out of interest does anyone know what is the projected cost and development time of getting 1-3 done?


Glad you guys agree.  I agree the above should be done first.  But aren't they already halfway done / in the works?
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Offline topcandle



So what if CNX crowdfunded for a BTS prediction or bond market? They could potentially raise a lot more than the blockchain would ever be able to pay directly.


Augur raised over 5 Million.  If we allowed crowdfunding and profitsharing-- we can immediately inject 5 Million into Bitshares+ all the value added that comes from putting the two features together (Bitshares + some new feature) .  This is why its important to protect the lifetime revenues. 
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Tuck Fheman

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Is this proposal on Github?

« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 06:25:47 pm by Tuck Fheman »

Offline tonyk

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This could be a potential new source of funding for Bitshares. 

This is not potential way of funding. This is the only way of funding, the other thing is just inflating the supply. It can be done but the payout must be bigger and the vesting longer - 3 years min.

On this note I like the funding model a lot..... BUT I am with the rest who think that changing the priority of what is important is big no No.

xeroc, fav and those 2 guys


1. Trading fee refunding proposal
2. Tading referral fee
3. Fix the API for bots and trading platforms

This stealth thing seems like it's going to take a lot longer to do than any of the above.  Please do 1-3 first and then focus on something different like this stealth transfer proposal.

I agree. Out of interest does anyone know what is the projected cost and development time of getting 1-3 done?



Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline EstefanTT

I'm not a big fan of lifetime fees but it's the way the referral prog works and it's actually brilliant to incentive people to promote and develop on BitShares.

That could be a nice way to accelerate our product dévelopment without hurting our small market cap.

That could bring deep pockets to look closely what can be done and the potential ROI on future features.

I had my doubts when I started to read this thread but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

That said, I would prefer to have other things done first. Mainely enhance the user experience with the wallet and have a trading plateform that can really attract traders (better UI, charts, API, ...)
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Offline clayop

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1. Trading fee refunding proposal
2. Tading referral fee
3. Fix the API for bots and trading platforms

This stealth thing seems like it's going to take a lot longer to do than any of the above.  Please do 1-3 first and then focus on something different like this stealth transfer proposal.

Agreed. Please fully focus on exchange stuffs first and make it our cash cow. Then we can discuss other features.
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Offline Empirical1.2

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1. Trading fee refunding proposal
2. Tading referral fee
3. Fix the API for bots and trading platforms

This stealth thing seems like it's going to take a lot longer to do than any of the above.  Please do 1-3 first and then focus on something different like this stealth transfer proposal.

I agree. Out of interest does anyone know what is the projected cost and development time of getting 1-3 done?

First, I said no to LIFETIME royalties, not to a revenue for him.
I would highly prefer give him a 1000% ROI than a lifetime one.

Second, this feature will be made eventually.
The community now seems to doesn't want to pay for it, just because there are other proposals that are more important/requested.
This doesn't mean that the community will never vote for a worker proposal for stealth transfers.
Plus, this seems very important for CNX, so they would want to implement it in graphene anyway.



That's what I'm saying.  Even though the Community wants to pay for it, they can't.  They can't afford it at these liquidity rates.  imagine if we dry up our liquidity for stealth addresses, how much left would we have (before the price drops even further) for other projects?  Not much I'd say.

What if we crowdfunded the bond / pm market to the community?  Would you say that those who invested wouldn't get lifetime fees?  Then nobody would want to crowdfund.

This could be a potential new source of funding for Bitshares.  It could accelerate our development if we allowed for this.

Fully agree.

I don't believe highly illiquid start-ups can afford to pay very much at all in immediately tradeable equity. Even vested shares would negatively effect the share price because of their future cost and the fact that there are still 300 million merger shares vesting over the following year.

So what if CNX crowdfunded for a BTS prediction or bond market? They could potentially raise a lot more than the blockchain would ever be able to pay directly.

Also just like BitSapphire said we'll open source (or whatever I forget) if we raise X. CNX could also say we'll do this other (not directly profitable) blockchain addition for free if we raise $X for a bond market or prediction market.

That way BTS like Ethereum gets those beneficial blockchain additions without having to pay for them directly but perhaps in a way that shares a more of the revenue from those additions with BTS than Augur might share with Ethereum.

I wonder if we agreed to his revenue terms as is whether he'd put a little towards developments 1-3 & agree they should be prioritised above stealth transfers.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:22:58 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline Bhuz

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What if we crowdfunded the bond / pm market to the community?  Would you say that those who invested wouldn't get lifetime fees?  Then nobody would want to crowdfund.

This could be a potential new source of funding for Bitshares.  It could accelerate our development if we allowed for this. 

So a 1000% ROI would not be enough to join the crowfund?! Where esle you can find such a deal?

This could also bring to big whales funding features and taking all the revenues for lifetime, leaving the blockchain with nothing and without the possibility to have community worker proposals.

Offline Samupaha

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Sounds great! As I said in the earlier stealth transfer worker topic, people who appreciate privacy are great early adopters for Bitshares. I didn't expect anything like this, but this is a nice example of a person who is willing to put his own skin in the game. Yeah, we really need these kind of people as our early adopters.

What if they took 80% of the fees until they'd recouped, for example, $60k worth of BTS - currently about 18 - 20 million shares. That's a 33% ROI - more if the price of BTS goes up during the payback phase.

Feature funding for profit makes sense. Lifetime royalties not so much.

Haven't thought this over yet, but this might be a good counterproposal. Lifetime royalties do not sound very good idea.

It's really interesting. It's a privatized feature. That is a first because I don't recall seeing that happen before or if it has it's very rare. Maybe once or twice Bitcoin has done something like this but it's unusual for a private investor to fund a new feature, but if we can standardize the process, maybe we can use this process over and over again and let people suggest new features, crowd fund them privately, and then pay up front to have it implemented while pocketing the fees to reward investors in the private crowd fund.

Absolutely, this is great idea!

I say give them 100% of the fees indefinitely. If they funded it then they deserve 100% of the fees indefinitely unless they decide they don't want the fees and in that case burn the fees.

Bitshares is offering a platform for this feature so of course it should benefit from it too. Transactions use resources of the blockchain and it has to be compensated.

Offline topcandle

In my opinion this is free money. We get someone who need this feature so much that he is ready to risk $45k to get it done.

This private party deserve to receive a royalty in the future of this feature, just like the when the shareholder pays for a feature. It's no different in my opinion.

I say take that money and get it done!

Take the money and get it done!
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Offline topcandle

First, I said no to LIFETIME royalties, not to a revenue for him.
I would highly prefer give him a 1000% ROI than a lifetime one.

Second, this feature will be made eventually.
The community now seems to doesn't want to pay for it, just because there are other proposals that are more important/requested.
This doesn't mean that the community will never vote for a worker proposal for stealth transfers.
Plus, this seems very important for CNX, so they would want to implement it in graphene anyway.



That's what I'm saying.  Even though the Community wants to pay for it, they can't.  They can't afford it at these liquidity rates.  imagine if we dry up our liquidity for stealth addresses, how much left would we have (before the price drops even further) for other projects?  Not much I'd say.

What if we crowdfunded the bond / pm market to the community?  Would you say that those who invested wouldn't get lifetime fees?  Then nobody would want to crowdfund.

This could be a potential new source of funding for Bitshares.  It could accelerate our development if we allowed for this. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:00:47 pm by topcandle »
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Offline rgcrypto

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In my opinion this is free money. We get someone who need this feature so much that he is ready to risk $45k to get it done.

This private party deserve to receive a royalty in the future of this feature, just like the when the shareholder pays for a feature. It's no different in my opinion.

I say take that money and get it done!

Offline Bhuz

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First, I said no to LIFETIME royalties, not to a revenue for him.
I would highly prefer give him a 1000% ROI than a lifetime one.

Second, this feature will be made eventually.
The community now seems to doesn't want to pay for it, just because there are other proposals that are more important/requested.
This doesn't mean that the community will never vote for a worker proposal for stealth transfers.
Plus, this seems very important for CNX, so they would want to implement it in graphene anyway.

Xeldal

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If there will be a lifetime fee going to the "individual", I would also like to put some money on the table.... and, I guess, I am not the only one. Let's do it via some form of kickstarter initiative then!

maybe have a UIA or NIA(network issued asset) that the network pays the holders the 80% fee till re-payed + some % profit.   though I guess this individual could simply buy the entire UIA offering and it would be the same as a private deal.

My initial thought on lifetime 100% fee is no, but im not against the drop to 20% after payed off.  I think it might be better to define the profit to be payed out up front. Then after payed off, it becomes like any other feature.

Ultimately either way, I just want the feature and I don't care too much who gets pays and how much.

Offline fav

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as for referrals:

how about you payout referrals the normal tx fee, and the topping to the investor?